Division Names

[Wayne Harris]

After speaking with a number of retailers, judges, and manufacturers, I believe we should name the new competition divisions as follows...

1. Novice Division - The name encourages newcomers to play. We have been referring to this division on-line as the Street Division.

2. Street Division - Leave the name alone. (Just like in 2001) We have been referring to this division on-line as the Pro Street Division. The word PRO creates confusion with regards to this division. Especially in light of the fact that no sponsored vehicles will be allowed.

3. Super Street Division - Leave the name alone.

4. Extreme Division - Leave the name alone.

Most parties believe that the existing names should be left alone to minimize confusion in 2002. In addition, the Novice division describes the type of competitor that will be competing in this class. We believe this will encourage people to compete because they will know that they are competing against other Novice competitors.

What do you think?

[dBSteve]

I like it!

[Sid Grice]

When members of this forum was discussing the rules, before the propositions post were created, the Street / Pro-Street idea was a means to seperate the two classes. even with different names, the classes will still be seperated. It is not so much as the name, that is as important, but how the classes will be different.

A rose, by any other name, is still a rose.

In non-rambling terms....I like it. :D

[Bobby Riley]

I have never liked the term "Novice" as it isnt something that a 16-20 year old would like to be labelled. On the other hand, I don't have a good suggestion to offer in place of the word novice smile.gif

[Team Shocker Nate]

Sounds good!

[SPL2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drakkule:
Sounds good!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep!

[Mike De Pace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JustboB:
I have never liked the term "Novice" as it isnt something that a 16-20 year old would like to be labelled. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes. That's a very good point. But what else could it be called?

[Big Ed]

I like the idea of the novice name and then street name.....This would help encourage curious new competitors to compete more maybe because they won't be going up against the big dogs...

Big Ed

[DodgeRam]

Also Wayne for the Novice Division why not just make them have to play their systems for like 15 seconds instead of 30....less chance of them blowing up their stuff

[Sid Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DodgeRam:
Also Wayne for the Novice Division why not just make them have to play their systems for like 15 seconds instead of 30....less chance of them blowing up their stuff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would also allow them less time to find their optimum frequency. If the Novice class is to be geared towards the "new" competitor, then it would be safe to assume that the "new" competitor may require some assistance in "learning the ropes". To shorten thier time limit, would be an injustice to them, the spectators, and the organization as a whole. Plus, it would create "specialized" rules, which could be viewed with negative results. Just because someone is new, does not mean that they should not be allowed the same time limits that the veteran competitors receive. Some "new" competitor could view the shortened time limit as a way of saying that they are less of a competitor, so they are not allowed the same previledges as a veteran competitor.

If a "new" competitor is concerned about destroying audio equipment during thier alloted time limit, they have the right to adjust their system accordingly.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Sid Grice ]

[shock da world]

names sound good to me......does this mean that the STREET Class will be offered just like last year for Finals???

todd

[SPLCivic]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike De Pace:
Yes. But what else could it be called?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

amateur
beginner


I agree with Wayne's name choices and concept.

[DodgeRam]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sid Grice:


That would also allow them less time to find their optimum frequency. If the Novice class is to be geared towards the "new" competitor, then it would be safe to assume that the "new" competitor may require some assistance in "learning the ropes". To shorten thier time limit, would be an injustice to them, the spectators, and the organization as a whole. Plus, it would create "specialized" rules, which could be viewed with negative results. Just because someone is new, does not mean that they should not be allowed the same time limits that the veteran competitors receive. Some "new" competitor could view the shortened time limit as a way of saying that they are less of a competitor, so they are not allowed the same previledges as a veteran competitor.

If a "new" competitor is concerned about destroying audio equipment during thier alloted time limit, they have the right to adjust their system accordingly.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Sid Grice ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well you do have a good point about them not being able to find there freq....I didn't think about that..But aren't we also making different rules for them in other ways also..guess most should be able to sit inside their vehicles also..most wouldn't go over 140 db.....and should we raise that number alittle bit?? 145?? 150??

[Mike Dolla]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPLCivic:


amateur
beginner


I agree with Wayne's name choices and concept.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


or Consumer Division

[strokerD]

how about:

Stock Street

Pro Street

Super Street

Extreme

Novice sounds too much like other organizations :rolleyes:

[Sid Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...But aren't we also making different rules for them in other ways also...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hopefully, the dBDRA will recognize the importance of keeping the rules of Novice and Street identical. This would help remove the chances that a "new" competitor being faced with negative comments, in the case that they win in the Novice class.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>guess most should be able to sit inside their vehicles also..most wouldn't go over 140 db.....and should we raise that number alittle bit?? 145?? 150??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since OSHA has has stated that 140db is the maximum allowance, the dBDRA could be risking law suits if competitors were allowed to be remain in situations which are "proven" to be a dangerous environment.

[jimmyo007]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike De Pace:



Yes. That's a very good point. But what else could it be called?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

New Street
True Street ;)

[Tor S Aamodt]

In Norway and Sweden, we used the name "Street Rookie" this year as a entry level class, with alot of compettitors in that class...
We used the same rules as in Street, but limited the system up to 10 000,- Nkr/Skr...

[fixxxer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike De Pace:



Yes. That's a very good point. But what else could it be called?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since the majority competing in this class will be newbies..

How about the "Newcomer(s) class"?

[Mike De Pace]

Amateur Street--I like this alot. Sounds more professional than novice.

Amateur = one engaging in a pursuit but lacking professional skill

Novice = A person new to a field or activity; a beginner.

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: Mike De Pace ]

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike De Pace:
Amateur Street--I like this alot. Sounds more professional than novice.

Amateur = one engaging in a pursuit but lacking professional skill
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amateur Street getts my vote....

[Bobby Riley]

I like "Consumer" for for the newbie class. It doesnt sound as degrading as novice.

[Jani U]

And our novice class here was called Low Street, but that might sound little funny... I think I like the novice better.

[bikemike]

Sounds good - simple enough for anyone to understand.

[car tunes]

just one question on the novice division / pro street division. who or how do you decipher is in these classes? what constitutes a novice?let me use for example donaldm goes to all the shows in ny and can sometimes win himself a trouphy,but has yet to make it to world finals . Is it because hes competed before he is a pro? Or is he still novice because he hasnt qualified yet for world finals, reason im asking is i plan on holding a couple more show this year and im sure Don doesnt want me to put him in a class he doesnt belong in. we need some clarification on this part of the rule because it will be argued at events . hence once you give in for one you must give in for all this takes out the fun - jeff

[AndrewHarper]

I think that the "novice class" should be called "street". Last years "street" class should be called "super street". Last years "super street" class should be renamed to "pro street." and finally, keep extreme the same.

This naming method may cause some initial confusion but it is more consistant with drag racing classes. In drag racing circles, "pro street" is the ultimate door-slammer class. the "super street" division is a step down, having highly modified cars, but not as radical as the "pro street" cars.

Does this make sense to you guys?

Andrew

[*Krisa*]

Wayne- your class naming makes the most sense.

However, one question I've seen buried elsewhere - but not answered - would this years "Street" hold the same limitations as last years? ie - if you're in the top 15, or on down as invitee who attended finals - must you move out of street?

Some competitors contend that since the name was "changing" to "pro street" - that rule didn't apply.

With the name/class remaining the same, and "novice" being introduced - does the mandatory move-up still apply?

[It only Hertz in Cycles]

i dont think so,the new beginer class is for the nubies so anyone can go pro-street now-let pro-street have 2 batterys so it can hit better numbers-i like street,super street,pro-street,and extreme the best-makes better sense to most people who dont allready know it

[*Krisa*]

Better numbers? 157 was the number that won World finals - albiet in a vehicle that would not be allowed under the proposed rules for 2002. You can have 2 batteries - in 3-4.

[It only Hertz in Cycles]

sorry-i was thinking pro-street1-2,in 3-4 they shuold be allowed to have 3 batterys-whats wrong with better numbers then last year?-some trucks come with 2 batterys so if the rules allow 2 in pro-street1-2 and 3 in 3-4 then it will be more even all the way around.
i still like this better <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I think that the "novice class" should be called "street". Last years "street" class should be called "super street". Last years "super street" class should be renamed to "pro street." and finally, keep extreme the same. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: It only Hertz in Cycles ]

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: It only Hertz in Cycles ]

[ASTRO SLAM]

sorry about the stats button (yet to renew)but this would eliminate a lot of confusion. DAMN I LIKE IT !

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragon Lady:
Wayne- your class naming makes the most sense.

However, one question I've seen buried elsewhere - but not answered - would this years "Street" hold the same limitations as last years? ie - if you're in the top 15, or on down as invitee who attended finals - must you move out of street?

Some competitors contend that since the name was "changing" to "pro street" - that rule didn't apply.

With the name/class remaining the same, and "novice" being introduced - does the mandatory move-up still apply?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good question.....

[BowDown]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by car tunes:
just one question on the novice division / pro street division. who or how do you decipher is in these classes? what constitutes a novice?let me use for example donaldm goes to all the shows in ny and can sometimes win himself a trouphy,but has yet to make it to world finals . Is it because hes competed before he is a pro? Or is he still novice because he hasnt qualified yet for world finals, reason im asking is i plan on holding a couple more show this year and im sure Don doesnt want me to put him in a class he doesnt belong in. we need some clarification on this part of the rule because it will be argued at events . hence once you give in for one you must give in for all this takes out the fun - jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he attends all shows then he wishes to compete. If someone is just entering and testing the waters they would be in the novice class.

[Josh Schmillen]

I'll say it again...

Street and Pro Street

I think this goes along very well with the 'side by side' action that is accustomed with (dB) Drag Racing. After all, drag racing means side by side, fastest wins...whereas loudest wins in this case.

As far as calling it Amateur or Begineer division:
This is what the class actually is but you don't see us calling Super Street-Pro and Extreme-Expert. I think a person competing in the proposed Street class would hold a little more pride in saying they compete in Street rather than Amateur or Novice.

Just my thoughts...

[Sid Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragon Lady:
Wayne- your class naming makes the most sense.

However, one question I've seen buried elsewhere - but not answered - would this years "Street" hold the same limitations as last years? ie - if you're in the top 15, or on down as invitee who attended finals - must you move out of street?

Some competitors contend that since the name was "changing" to "pro street" - that rule didn't apply.

With the name/class remaining the same, and "novice" being introduced - does the mandatory move-up still apply?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the "unknown" competitor was in street class in the 2001 season, and if the "unknown" competitor did receive an invite to finals in the 2001 season, then the rules for 2001 season should still apply. If the rule (for maditory class change) is to be dropped from the 2002 rules, it should not change the fact that the "unknown" competitor knew the rules for 2001, and competed knowing that he/she would be required to move into a different class for the 2002 season. Just because the name of the a class changes in a following year, does not automatically cancel the rule for the season in which the competitor was active in.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Sid Grice ]

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by car tunes:
just one question on the novice division / pro street division. who or how do you decipher is in these classes? what constitutes a novice?let me use for example donaldm goes to all the shows in ny and can sometimes win himself a trouphy,but has yet to make it to world finals . Is it because hes competed before he is a pro? Or is he still novice because he hasnt qualified yet for world finals, reason im asking is i plan on holding a couple more show this year and im sure Don doesnt want me to put him in a class he doesnt belong in. we need some clarification on this part of the rule because it will be argued at events . hence once you give in for one you must give in for all this takes out the fun - jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hope by the end of next season i can get closer to the winners in my class than the 8db loss i've been averaging...

[RUJELLIS?]

amateur street, and pro street?

[*Krisa*]

Novice class doesn't accrue points towards world finals, "regular" or "pro" street will. That's the difference. Local kids who want to compete and not get stomped by 12-14 db (as they do in street 1-2 around here) can go, and not have to worry about getting creamed by the couple of guys who are serious about getting to finals.

[Bad4x4]

I like Street and Pro Street myself. Amatuer sounds like the people that will be in that class know absolutely nothing, which most do know a little. Street and Pro Street sounds more professional, I think :D

[*1LOWSUV*]

Great Idea! Anyone recieving a trophy won't mind being called a "Novice". It kind of goes with the territory, they can look forward to Street class as they progress. :D

[shock da world]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by QuadCam:
I think that the "novice class" should be called "street". Last years "street" class should be called "super street". Last years "super street" class should be renamed to "pro street." and finally, keep extreme the same.

Andrew<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like these class names the msot

todd

[car tunes]

hey don , nothing ment by my remarks, i just know you had some problems last year with some of the competiters equiptment . so i used you for example . im sure you will pick up the 8 db s this year:) but we still need an answer it , leaving you in amiture would pit you against guys like scott baxter and a few others . we really need clarification to whos a novice and whos a pro streeter- jeff

[Devastator]

I agree, novice sounds just like iasca. Just need to find a proper synonym for novice.

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by car tunes:
hey don , nothing ment by my remarks, i just know you had some problems last year with some of the competiters equiptment . so i used you for example . im sure you will pick up the 8 db s this year:) but we still need an answer it , leaving you in amiture would pit you against guys like scott baxter and a few others . we really need clarification to whos a novice and whos a pro streeter- jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, its all good. I was a good example since i am a deticated competitor but by no means a "pro"....

[firestarter]

Novice or rookie sounds fine for the name.

But PLEASE, if more classes are going to be added, please make it very clear, and very written, how to merge classes, when the rest of the world will hardly have any cars above Street.

Like only merge classes with less that 4 cars ONLY, and only merge to a max of 8 cars, so if some poor sucker in the lowest of the merged class, comes last, he still gets points.

Also, could you make it VERY clear, and VERY written, how to move the novice/street competitiors up at the end of the year, as its a joke for our own countries, when the top people can stay in the bottom class, just because they didnt qualify for the world finals, that they will never qualify for, no matter their placing in our own countries, I would like to see a written "move-up" rule, that could apply to every country. Please understand, that this could damage the sport in our countries, if it isnt written.

Thanks.

[GH0ST]

and Jeff, my probs wasnt with equipment. It was with rules violation. Like the two Street 3-4 cars(cavilier and Neon) that had completely removed there rear seats....i told judges but they wouldnyt listen to me...

[car tunes]

i remember that incodent , i wish i could of helped you out :eek: i have a feeling your gonna se some changes at the local show this up comming season, make it to my show my single point shows will be treated as if triples. well ok not that strict but you know how thurough i am :D - jeff

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by car tunes:
i remember that incodent , i wish i could of helped you out :eek: i have a feeling your gonna se some changes at the local show this up comming season, make it to my show my single point shows will be treated as if triples. well ok not that strict but you know how thurough i am :D - jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll be at all of the local ones next year and yours too. Me likes hangin with you team... :D

[*Krisa*]

As Wayne's said MANY times, the goal is the LEAST possible number of changes to the rule books - and you'd be surprised how many things would need to change throughout when you change EVERY class name. Leave it as novice and street - as Wayne's said, there may be up to 4 divisions within novice...

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragon Lady:
As Wayne's said MANY times, the goal is the LEAST possible number of changes to the rule books - and you'd be surprised how many things would need to change throughout when you change EVERY class name. Leave it as novice and street - as Wayne's said, there may be up to 4 divisions within novice...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good point,...we dont want too many changes. That would make the judges jobs even harder than they already are...

[Q]

Sid Grice: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
If the "unknown" competitor was in street class in the 2001 season, and if the "unknown" competitor did receive an invite to finals in the 2001 season, then the rules for 2001 season should still apply. If the rule (for maditory class change) is to be dropped from the 2002 rules, it should not change the fact that the "unknown" competitor knew the rules for 2001, and competed knowing that he/she would be required to move into a different class for the 2002 season. Just because the name of the a class changes in a following year, does not automatically cancel the rule for the season in which the competitor was active in.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it would, last season is over, and this season has new rules, so the new rules, not the old rules, will apply.
Whether or not a 'finals invitee' from last season will be allowed in the Pro-Street class, (or whatever it will be called) will be detailed in the 2002 rulebook, but why did that mandatory class change rule exist?
http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Because there was no lower class for beginners, but under the new rules, and according to these 2002 rule discussions, it appears there will be a class lower this season, so it seems like the reason for the mandatory class change out of Street no longer exists for the 'Pro-Street' class this season.

[Shedluv]

Maybe call the newbie class the "Trophy Dash" class as all they're after is a trophy, and its on the dash. Just an idea I had, and it goes along with the local "Saturday Night Special" races that used to have a Trophy Dash, no points, just for fun and the trophy. Just a though, remember that it is 1:44 after New Year's here, so my head isn't the clearest. Also this gives them a "unique" name that could draw interest to the sport.

[*Krisa*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donaldm:

Good point,...we dont want too many changes. That would make the judges jobs even harder than they already are...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. There's a guy down here who's recently started doing shows, who was making up his own rules and classes on the spot - we went to one show of his - and we're not going to anymore.

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragon Lady:


Exactly. There's a guy down here who's recently started doing shows, who was making up his own rules and classes on the spot - we went to one show of his - and we're not going to anymore.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been to a show like that. I got put in SS because i had more than 600wts rms. Got my head handed to me.....

[jaggy]

jaggys suggestions...if anyones reading smile.gif

Street
Beginners and no pro's????
Only allowed in Street for one year???
No more then 150dbs maybe????????
Street1-2, 3-4.
10"/12"

Pro Street
Normal but no sponsered vechiles
Sponsered as in no shops/manufacturers, also word gets around so no cheating otherwise we'll find out...and hunt you guys down :D
Street1-2, 3-4.
allow 15's perhaps????

Super Street
Best of the best

Extreme
Crazy people :D :D
(just kiddin)

wallah.

jaggy

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jaggy:


Pro Street
Normal but no sponsered vechiles
Sponsered as in no shops/manufacturers, also word gets around so no cheating otherwise we'll find out...and hunt you guys down :D
Street1-2, 3-4.
allow 15's perhaps????
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It would be hard as heck to define a shop vehicle/sponsored vehicle. Does sponsored mean, they got the eqiupment for free or just a price break. And does a shop mean you have to work there or just had them do the install. I see make Pro Street a free for all, with 2 12s(or 10s), 1 amp, 1 battery, 1 HU, 1 farad of capitance, and one db drag volume 5 cd. You have to keep 15s out of the mix or else it will just become SS 1-2 NW with one amp. We'll soon find out.

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XMAX JR.:



It would be hard as heck to define a shop vehicle/sponsored vehicle. Does sponsored mean, they got the eqiupment for free or just a price break. And does a shop mean you have to work there or just had them do the install. I see make Pro Street a free for all, with 2 12s(or 10s), 1 amp, 1 battery, 1 HU, 1 farad of capitance, and one db drag volume 5 cd. You have to keep 15s out of the mix or else it will just become SS 1-2 NW with one amp. We'll soon find out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Price breaks are fine IMO....its the free stuff that should put people in the higher class....

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donaldm:


Price breaks are fine IMO....its the free stuff that should put people in the higher class....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is going to police the price a company 'charges' a competitor for their product. Its easy for a company to say they charged a competitor when they really just gave them the stuff. I still think its too difficult to govern.

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XMAX JR.:


Who is going to police the price a company 'charges' a competitor for their product. Its easy for a company to say they charged a competitor when they really just gave them the stuff. I still think its too difficult to govern.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true but most people just cant keep it to them self and have to tell someone about the great deal they got. And yes it would be very hard to police...

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donaldm:


Very true but most people just cant keep it to them self and have to tell someone about the great deal they got. ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to put you down, but I can think of quite a few people that can keep very quiet if it means winning...

[jaggy]

note what i said..

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Normal but no sponsered vechiles
Sponsered as in no shops/manufacturers, also word gets around so no cheating otherwise we'll find out...and hunt you guys down <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

we'll hunt them down like wolves!! lol

yeah i see the problem here...maybe just make Pro Street free for all, no 15's usuall street rules.

How about position of the amp??? can it be anywhere, i.e. nearer the front battery or restrict it to the boot???

jaggy

[*Krisa*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jaggy:
note what i said..





we'll hunt them down like wolves!! lol


yeah i see the problem here...maybe just make Pro Street free for all, no 15's usuall street rules.


How about position of the amp??? can it be anywhere, i.e. nearer the front battery or restrict it to the boot???


jaggy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's already been addressed in the proposed rule changes for street - must be inside vehicle, not mounted in engine compartment or in tool-boxes in a truck bed.

[Mike De Pace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sid Grice:
Just because the name of the a class changes in a following year, does not automatically cancel the rule for the season in which the competitor was active in.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you. We are all still waiting for Wayne to say something about this. I agree with you 100% Sid.

[debezt1]

Originally posted by Sid Grice:

Just because the name of the a class changes in a following year, does not automatically cancel the rule for the season in which the competitor was active in.

Originally posted by 'Q':

Of course it would, last season is over, and this season has new rules, so the new rules, not the old rules, will apply.
Whether or not a 'finals invitee' from last season will be allowed in the Pro-Street class, (or whatever it will be called) will be detailed in the 2002 rulebook, but why did that mandatory class change rule exist?
Because there was no lower class for beginners, but under the new rules, and according to these 2002 rule discussions, it appears there will be a class lower this season, so it seems like the reason for the mandatory class change out of Street no longer exists for the 'Pro-Street' class this season.

dont the new rules allways cansel the old ones?

[JBM]

I like StrokerD's idea for the class names - the name Novice and Amateur just don't sound like classes that people would like to be associated with...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Stock Street

Pro Street

Super Street

Extreme

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Sid Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q:
... why did that mandatory class change rule exist?
http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Because there was no lower class for beginners<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is my belief that the manditory change was imposed as a way to incite a more level playing field for competitors on a limited budget. If we do not enforce the rules as they have been stated, then we send a message to those competitors that their efforts are not appreciated. Some "street" competitors (that are not required to change classes) may have been hoping that the 2002 season would give them the opportunity to be more competitive (due to the maditory change), while not having to "break the bank" in order to do so. If we have misled those competitors, then we leave them with two choices...either remain in a class that will be dominated by others, or drop down to the lower class in order to be more competitive. There is a third choice (dropping out of competition as a whole), but I hope that this is not a real option for those competitors. If the competitors remain in a class that they are sure they will not win, what will keep the excitement flowing, so that they will continue to compete? If they are forced to drop into the newly proposed class (whatever the name shall be), then what will encourage a new competitor to join the competitons if they feel the class is dominated by "experienced" competitors?

I still believe that the maditory change is needed, so that "novice" (if that will be the name) and "street" classes will remain encourageable to present (and future) competitors who are on limited budgets.

PS. The comments about being on a limited budget are not to be considered demoralizing, but to be viewed as a sense of understanding.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Sid Grice ]

[fixxxer]

I believe that the rule from the previous year that stated, "World finalists can no longer compete in the Street class." should be enforced regardless of this seasons rules/classes.

A rule is a rule...and everyone who went to finals in the Street class last season knew (at least I hope they knew) that they would have to move to SS or Extreme the following year.

Why should that rule be ignored now?

[David McLean]

I think the name "Pro Street" sounds more intense than "Super Street".
If we are going to have 4 divisions, I say use these names in this order

Street
Super Street (Previously Street)
Pro Street (Previously Super Street)
Extreme

I like James Turners Suggestion of possibly renaming Extreme to "fit" better with the Drag Racing theme our sport is modeled after.

How about Modified Street?
Any suggestions?

[*Krisa*]

I think changing all class names will get too confusing. David, I know you're a great promotor of shows and wouldn't have a problem - but there are guys who run shows that I've been to who can't get the 01 classes straight, even with the rule-book in front of them.

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragon Lady:
I think changing all class names will get too confusing. David, I know you're a great promotor of shows and wouldn't have a problem - but there are guys who run shows that I've been to who can't get the 01 classes straight, even with the rule-book in front of them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very true.....

[Q]

Originally posted by Sid Grice:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...remian in a class that will be dominated by others...If we do not enforce the rules as they have been stated... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Originally posted by Fixxer:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> A rule is a rule...and everyone who went to finals in the Street class last season knew (at least I hope they knew) that they would have to move to SS or Extreme the following year.

Why should that rule be ignored now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both good points, and understood, however, the rules which were "in place" last season were there for a reason based on last season's classes, and are in the process of being rewritten to work better, as are the very classes they applied to, therefore, since even the classes that these now obsolete rules applied to are changing, the old rules should also be reconsidered, and remember, this season, the World Finals winning vans will NOT be allowed, so right there the Street(Pro-street?) class is already different from last season, So less likely to be "Dominated" by last season's winners, and are already more accessable to those who weren't last season's World Finals invitees. smile.gif

[*1LOWSUV*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q:
Sid Grice:

Of course it would, last season is over, and this season has new rules, so the new rules, not the old rules, will apply.
Whether or not a 'finals invitee' from last season will be allowed in the Pro-Street class, (or whatever it will be called) will be detailed in the 2002 rulebook, but why did that mandatory class change rule exist?
http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Because there was no lower class for beginners, but under the new rules, and according to these 2002 rule discussions, it appears there will be a class lower this season, so it seems like the reason for the mandatory class change out of Street no longer exists for the 'Pro-Street' class this season.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scott, so are you looking to be an Amature or a Street class competitor?
:D

[Q]

Well, TJ, (and to get this back from 'O.T.ville') I would hope that anyone could be a competitor in 'Pro-Street' (or whatever name it will have) since it isn't a 'nubie' class, but a very 'limited' class by nature due to the restrictions on equipment allowed, whether or not someone has experience shouldn't be a reason for disallowing them in the next step up from the nubie class, if they really enjoy the challenge of the limitations of the class.

2 seasons being obsessed by Bass Competition is enough for me for a while, (there are mountains to ride!) but if I were to be heavily involved again this season (though Wayne may not allow me to be) I would stay in the class I love, using the woofers I love - 12", and once again enjoy the challenge of the relatively severe limitations of the 'Pro-Street' class.

You see, I believe a class like this is needed for anyone who wants to try to compete within the restrictions of the class, limitations which to me have already a great 'equalizing' effect, whether you're experienced or not. http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon7.gif

[POBoling]

I like it.
Did I tell you Wayne that you are the man.
:D

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fixxxer:
I believe that the rule from the previous year that stated, "World finalists can no longer compete in the Street class." should be enforced regardless of this seasons rules/classes.

A rule is a rule...and everyone who went to finals in the Street class last season knew (at least I hope they knew) that they would have to move to SS or Extreme the following year.

Why should that rule be ignored now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of us i am sure were loking forward to that happening, kindof leveling the playing feild a bit for those who didnt make finals...

[Q]

http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Originally posted by donaldm:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by fixxxer:
I believe that the rule from the previous year that stated, "World finalists can no longer compete in the Street class." should be enforced regardless of this seasons rules/classes.
A rule is a rule...and everyone who went to finals in the Street class last season knew (at least I hope they knew) that they would have to move to SS or Extreme the following year.

Why should that rule be ignored now?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of us i am sure were loking forward to that happening, kindof leveling the playing feild a bit for those who didnt make finals...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Originally posted by Wayne Harris: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> No cargo vans or commercial vehicles will be permitted to compete in this division.

No sponsored vehicles will be permitted to compete in this division.

Enclosures must be located behind the rearmost door's trailing door jamb (for vehicles with removable seats.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Playing field LEVELED! smile.gif


__________________________________________________ ___________


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[ 01-06-2002: Message edited by: Q ]

[GH0ST]

Good point Q, this thread has gotten so long i almost forgot some of Wayne oridginal comments...

[Q]

Evidentally so did I, since I had to borrow that quote from the Pro Street (Old Street) Discussion, this strand was originally about deciding upon a name for this 'Pro-Street' division.

I guess I'm still partial to the name 'Street Plus', and maybe a certain number of cold cranking amps of battery power should be allowed instead of a blanket number of batteries, or else what do you do with the trucks that have 2 1100 cold cranking amp batteries as oem when they end up being the new nubie stompin' loophole vehicle?

How about 2200 max CCA in Street 1-2, and
3300 CCA in Street 3-4, and DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT OF ALLOWABLE CCA in the 'Pro-Street' classes so that the 12" class just above the 'nubie' class can hit a little bigger numbers, and hook-up a little better for World Finals? smile.gif

__________________________________________________ _______________


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[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Q ]

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q:

How about 2200 max CCA in Street 1-2, and
3300 CCA in Street 3-4, and DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT OF ALLOWABLE CCA in the 'Pro-Street' classes so that the 12" class just above the 'nubie' class can hit a little bigger numbers, and hook-up a little better for World Finals? smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good to me...

[PuRpS]

sound good to me

if there isnt enough competitors in 2 class's
ie
street and novice they will be combined at comps ?

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PuRpS:
sound good to me

if there isnt enough competitors in 2 class's
ie
street and novice they will be combined at comps ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be another good idea. Of All the comps i went to last year, only one had more than 8 cars in Street 1-2...

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donaldm:


only one had more than 8 cars in Street 1-2...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150...

[GH0ST]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XMAX JR.:



Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No thanks,...i think i'll pass on that...

[Mike De Pace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XMAX JR.:



Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can say that again...Phoenix is looking better every day...

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike De Pace:
[QB]

You can say that again...QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150...

[Q]

Originally posted by XMAX JR.:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150...

Head to Chicago and you'll have problems qualifying unless you can pull a 150... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Geez, what I wouldn't give for that kind of serious competition out west!!

[Josh Schmillen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q:


http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Geez, what I wouldn't give for that kind of serious competition out west!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hear Chicago is nice this time of year...better call the moving the trucks.

[*1LOWSUV*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q:[/IMG] Geez, what I wouldn't give for that kind of serious competition out west!![/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry we bore you.

:( We'll try to keep you entertained this year :D No more lending Pickett RCA's-hahaha

[Q]

Originally posted by BUMPNDABAY!:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> We'll try to keep you entertained this year <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.termpro.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif So those rumors I heard about you taking up belly dancing were true? :D

http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif !!