posted
I have seen this discussion on various other forums and am in a discussion about it on Bstuff.com. The topic is whic way is easier to blow speakers, or what blows speakers?
I was taught a long time ago that it is easier to blow a speaker by using to little of power and driving the amplifier into clipping/distortion. This does make some sense to me, but it seems others don't grasp the idea. the person I am having a discussion with has shown me some tests that prove this theory wrong, even though I still believe in it. Now my question is.. Which way is easier to blow a speaker, using less power and driving the amp into clipping/distortion or using more power than the speaker can handle?
If it is using more power than the speaker can handle, why do I see so many people using high output amplifiers rated for double or triple the wattage the speaker is rated at?
Please help with this discussion. I can't actually find any solid proof anywhere, except for the tests he has shown me.
posted
i have never blow a speaker, but i know that putting too much power can thermally smoke the coil, other way is to tear the spider from the cone, or the spider from the voice coil former. or another is to crack the cone. another is to melt the coil so its frozen inside the magnet stucture. they are all not good. with good equipment none of these should happen very easly.
excluding low quality amps clipping shouldnt harm the sub much. low quality amps may become arradic durring clipping and send some dc voltage threw, basically with too much clipping a A/C signel does turn into a dc basically. sound quality wise its always better to over power a speaker but not turn up the amp enough to cause the sub problems. i have never had a problem with clipping, i can always tell the sub would not get any louder and the sound was getting a little dirty, so i wouldnt turn it any higher. also a lot of subs will take more then they are rated at. amps may be rated at 1200 watts, but only put out 300 at some frequcies due to impedance rise. maybe if you played the frequecy with the smallest rise to get 1200 watts out of the amp and left that going in a tone on a 300 watt sub it would probably throw it out of the basket, or smoke the coils. most people seem to have problems with the subs moving too much before the coils heating up too much. sense subs like to move more the lower they get it would be easy to make one move too much at around 30-35 hz, with too much power.
-------------------- Infiniti J30 2 kicker solo x 12s 2 kicker 2500.1 @ 1 ohm wall, 7 cubes, 100 sq port 149.1 DB at 42hz. DiRtY SoUtH DEAF SqUaD Posts: 1361 | From: Columbia, SC | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
you have not really stated what "blows" is defined as in the thread in which you are participating. thermal or mechanical by amplification, or mechanical by forces other than its intended use ( dropped and shifted or broken motor, hole punched through the cone, surround, dustcap or spider, or something altogether different such as enclosure loading issues or speaker touching a nearby item ). your post above sounds as if referring to standard operation destruction via mechanical or thermal. you cannot underpower a sub to destroy it, manufacturers give a power range of operation to best suit a particular subwoofer in a given enclosure or environment, this does not mean that it will fry a coil (the only argument out there as it is equally impossible to mechanically destroy the subwoofer with an AC voltage lower than the recommended minimum. "underpowering" a subwoofer is an impossible way to induce clipping from an amplifier as well. feed a coil a small amount of voltage and current and it simply will not move as much, notably at an audible level versus the recommended minimum wattage, which ofcoarse is just a product of an impedance, amperage and voltage equation. you can, however, overpower a subwoofer driver by means of thermal capacity overload or mechanical capacity overload. clipping is a really fast way to heat up a coil by sending high amperage and DC voltage to something that is supposed to move backward and forward continuously without pause. the only way that this could burn coil wire is if the heat dissipation capability of the motor system is exceeded, where it cannot wick away the heat from the voice coil as fast as it is generated. clipping can also cause mechanical failure as the above post mentioned by pushing individual parts beyond their capabilities, both thermally and mechanically, ie. spiders ripping, cone failure, dustcap failure, delaminations, former tensile overload etc. etc. hope that this information can help you with your train of thought as well as in your other forum debate.
Posts: 320 | From: all over the place | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
yeah, with dc, there are pauses. when it pauses, it isn't cooling. and it is the amperage that does the killing. the heat is in amperage. if you have 1000 watts of clean power, say 100v and 10 amps, you're safe. if you take that small crappy amp and clip it, produce 600 watts, but 20v and 30 amps,... your coil is toast.
Posts: 540 | From: nor cal | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Inventor of the Capattery™ Founding member of Team Lebowski Posts: 1022 | From: Morgantown, KY | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok, for one thing DC is NEVER going to the speaker or coming out of any amplifier. During extreme clipping the speaker is motionless,( almost like DC) and therefore the voice-coil cannot cool itself, and it glows red hot, like your stove element, many formers(on which the coil is wound around) are capable of withstanding extreme heat. So once the coil gets overheated, several things can/will happen; -The laquer layer around the voice-coil starts to bubble. -The former starts to turn colour to black -The voice-coil falls off, and becomes a burnt up slinky in the magnet gap -The woofer freezes in place because the voice-coil and former have bubbled, and filled up the magnet gap -The cone gets creased because the cone was going in one direction and the coil wanted to go in another. As for overpowering a speaker, I've had 1800watts of clean power at 33Hz to a 15inch woofer that was rated at 350Watts. The idea behind having more power than a speaker can handle, is to allow for dynamic crescendos in music to come through, without distorting. And as mentioned above, most of these symptoms will occur from one problem, a defective user.
-------------------- E.C. Wuz here Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Eli47: The idea behind having more power than a speaker can handle, is to allow for dynamic crescendos in music to come through, without distorting. And as mentioned above, most of these symptoms will occur from one problem, a defective user.
a lot of people don't understand this concept. i personally run double power to everything when possible and never have problems. in my belief the ONLY way to blow a speaker is from user ignorance.
-------------------- 06 sierra single cab fixing to get a 3-way dayton frontstage with dayton ho sub. all run active. Posts: 351 | From: essdeeohtee | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic