posted
Here's my attempt to add a new string on the advanced.... I've started etching my own circuit boards for the line driver I build. anyone have tips/tricks/ideas on doing this anyone have CONSTRUCTIVE critisism about the board layout/design... (that was the first design... revamped since then) anyone need help etching their own... or need a board or two made for them? later
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
[This message has been edited by RWAudio (edited 12-22-1999).]
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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I have no comments on boards but I am interested in your signature !! What kind of Golf do you have - mine's a Mk II ( It's the install of the week at www.sounddomain.com ) Do you have any info/pics of your car that you would like to share ?
posted
Hey Andy.. nice car.. I saw it about a week ago.. searching for golfs of course.. mines an mkIII (97) and ya I have some pics email or icq me... rwaudio@hotmail.com icq.. 4559592 later Robin
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
ok... I use kind of an odd... but very cost effective/easy method you've probably heard of the photo resist method.. where you develop your artwork on the board like a photo.. well I tried it.. but found an easier way that produces just as good results. what you need: copper clad board feric cloride glossy photo paper laser printer clothes iron masking tape 1)print your artwork(layout) on a laser printer must be a laser printer.. not inkjet 2)cut out the "picture" and tape it ink down to the copper side of the board 3)use an iron and "melt" the ink to transfer it to the board... use very hot temp and lots of pressure 4)DON'T remove the paper..... place the board/paper in warm water for 30 mins it will start to disintegrate.. run it under cool water to wipe off the remaining paper 5)touch up any spots the ink didn't transfer with an etch resistant marker 6)etch the board in feric cloride time will vary.. mine takes about 10-15 mins at room temp with light aggitation... 7)clean off the ink with steel wool 8)drill the component holes and solder
hope that helps Robin
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Looks good. Is your design double sided? if not can you do double sided with your method. I have some experience designing and building circuit boards. The last one I did was for a 28 band graphic equalizer which took me about 3 tries to get built right since it was double sided.
Posts: 2575 | From: GA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I've been told it works double sided with a few more steps..... just tricky to get both sides to line up 100%... do you have schematics/artwork/component layout on that eq.. would love to see it. if you want more info on the double sided thing email or icq me...
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I should still have the artwork and schematics for it, I'll see if I can find it. The EQ was a dual mono 28 band graphic EQ, inseatd of sliders it used a digital control and some National Semiconductor EQ chips. The problem I had with mine was getting the two sides to line up also, I came up with a pretty effective way to do it if you are interested.
Posts: 2575 | From: GA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
sure.. if you can find them... I looked into that eq chip a little awhile ago.. but didn't like the control interface... still interested though.. and how did you get the sides to line up... for my line driver I got away with single sided.. but my x-over and small eq require double sided.. (haven't attemmpted that yet)
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
To get the sides to line up I drilled four holes on a spare board. Then on my artwork I had four circles corresponding to the holes on the board. I lined up one side to the holes and taped it to another spare board, then line up the second side and tape it to the spare board. Then you have the two sides lined up and spaced apart enough so the two pieces won't get off center when the real board is placed between the sheets.
What type of software did you use to design your boards? All of my artwork is done on Protel and my schematics on Pspice, or I can put the stuff in MS or bitmaps to send them to you.
The EQ chips ****ed to work with, however my design allows me to remove the chips from their sockets and plug in a board containing sliders for regular use. The EQ chips with a more advanced control design could do some pretty impressive things but it is mainly software design.
Does your line driver have a power supply on that board or is it separate? Also what op-amps are you going to use in your designs?
posted
your double sided method seems pretty good.. I'll have to try that when I do double sided.. To do my artwork.. well started with pctrace.. and had probs printing so just made myself some templates in ulead media studio image editor... and route by hand.. takes some time but the router on pctrace was CRAP... wouldn't mind finding a better prog that actually worked..schematics.. well usually doodles hehe. have to agree on those chips.. if you used a microconroller or something that eq would be awsome.. but with a basic digital input network kinda hard to use. yes the power supply is on the board.. (right half of the board.. audio is the left half) and I use burr brown opamps nothing better out there.. but that's just my oppinion what do you use? and what do you use for a power supply?
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
The op-amps I used were just cheap TL074s, I had better ones in mind but the supplier couldn't ever send me what I wanted so I had to use what I could get overnight. My power supply was a separate board since it had to power two EQ boards, the digital control board, the display, and the backlight. I would look into Protel for the router, I got my program off of their site ( www.protel.com )for free. Their router worked good enough for me I only made a couple changes in the design it gave me. I don't know anything about pctrace so I don't know how easy it is to use, but I taught myself Protel in a couple days of using it. It is real easy to make changes in trace width, pad size, and other things that you always seem to need to change. Can you give me some more info on the power supply you use, schematics, ICs etc. I've got a design but it is to big for a device like a line driver.
Posts: 2575 | From: GA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'm quite intrigued by all this. Was the EQ cost effective, or did you build it to suit a specific need, or just for fun? This is the kinda stuff I keep telling myself I'm going to do when I have the time. I think I'll be retired before I have the time!
Posts: 490 | From: Fort Frances, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 1999
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posted
What supplier were you going through? I use digikey... in the states... and I can get stuff delivered to canada overnight... very quick.. very good customer service etc.. www.digikey.com the power supply I went with now is just a dc/dc converter... others were too big/similar price.. this is tiny. I use a burr brown dc/dc can't remember the model # off hand.. but you can look it up at their site www.burr-brown.com it's only a 1 watt unit... +,- 15v +,-33mA so you can run a few opamps but not a whole lot else good for a line driver or crossover. haven't pushed the limit of it yet.. but if the load is small enough it might do for an eq too. if you have any of your schematics/artwork in bmp/jpg/gif format send them on over... rwaudio@hotmail.com and any other q's I'd be happy to help and Inno. you should try it, you learn alot about audio in general playing around with this, the line driver I build cost me about 30-40 bucks canadian.. vs 170+ good price for a pld-1 in canada... it did however take many hours.. so to sell it and make it sorta worth my while 100 bucks canadian....
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
The EQ was something I had been designing for a little while, then I decided to make it my design project my senior year in college. It didn't cost that much since quite a bit of it was free from the manufacturers. With the exception of the op-amps I used high quality parts. I estimate that I could build it for about 350 dollars. The thing was pretty cool, it had two channels with 28 bands each, a digital control with a battery backed RAM so it would store the gain data with the power off, and a LCD screen showing the boost/cut for each band. As far as the op-amps, I had talked to a manufacturer, I think Analog Devices, and they were going to send me enough sample for my project. Since I couldn't build this on a breadboard first I already had the PCB done for quad op-amps. At first I got dual opamps, next I got surface mount quads. Each time I waited a couple weeks and since I was on a strict deadline and didn't have my complete board two days before it was due, I had to have some crappy op-amps shipped from Mouser. RW thanks for the info on the power supply, I've been looking for something like this for a sub level control I have designed, I need something small and easy. I'm working on getting the artwork and schematics in a useable format, I know I can do it I just can't remember how. And Inno most of my projects have been in my head and on scraps of paper for a long time before they get finished and built. So if you have something you want to design just work on it a little at a time in any spare time you have.
Posts: 2575 | From: GA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I just don't seem to have the time. I work with most of this stuff on a daily basis and have many suppliers, it's just a matter of getting something started and sticking to it. I repair consumer electronics for a living, mostly tv, vcr and home audio. It's pretty routine and not as challenging as it used to be, but I've never really played with my own designs or experimented with sound processors. Anyone have a schametic or idea for a good basic digital delay unit? Just delay, no reverb or other effects.
Posts: 490 | From: Fort Frances, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I found the idea of using a heat transferred pattern from a laser printer intriguing. Any method I have used to date to produce a pc board pattern has enough drawbacks to send me in search of a better way. I am not up on the latest capabilities of printers, but it seems to me that printing directly on the pc board would save time, give a sharper and more accurate result, and be repeatable.Of course, the printer needs to be able to print on a flat surface and be able to handle the thickness and probably the substandard size of the board, since we wouldn't likely be doing all 8.5 x 11's or whatever.Also a custom ink would seem to be useful, if not required. Anybody had any experience along these lines? I only make pc boards for random projects, but if I could own a machine that was capable of doing what I have suggested, at a reasonable cost, I would have one.I am almost willing to try to fabricate an x-y table and a custom print head to deliver the proper resist and have it directly controlled by the computer, if I can see the way to do it.Only one resist solution is needed, so the spray nozzle can't be that complicated.Nozzle cleaning would be an automated process, utilizing a built-in solvent and a catch-tray area. Pc board control might be done via a vacuum table, to keep it flat and in position. Fittable corners on this table would give a repeatable and fast positioning for multiple boards, as well as take care of much of the problem of double-sided boards. Controlling the temperature of the table would aid in setting the resist.This setup would also allow a secondary layer to be printed on the board after etching to control solder use and add information to show part placement, ins and outs, etc. Any comments on these ideas?
[This message has been edited by Dee (edited 12-25-1999).]
posted
Inno, I don't have any designs for digital delay. Since you repair electronics you can probably read schematics pretty well so I would suggest going to Rane's website www.rane.com and looking at their delay processor. They have copies of their schematics in .pdf format.
Dee, maybe you could modify a plotter to do what you are thinking. One of the boards I had made was done with a router that looked like a plotter and it just routered around the traces.
RWAudio, I still can't get any of my schematics or artwork into .bmp so that it is readable but I'm still working on it.
posted
Great idea! I didn't know any manufacturer published their own schematics on the web. Thanks jc2!
Posts: 490 | From: Fort Frances, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Inno.. I've seen a delay chip... not sure who makes it.. but it's in the digikey catalog... I could look it up for you when I get home. it's like 15 bucks.. but would be worth it if it works right.. never played with one though.. but thought it would be cool. As for the schematics... what format do you have them in now? I could try getting the prog to view them or whatever. Dee... that idea of yours would be great... but like you said I don't know of a laser printer or anything that would print on that "odd" material and thickness.. but if you come up with something I'd be interested. but for now the "ink transfer" seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to do a board.
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
RW, does digikey have a website? I'll try getting a catalogue from them as I've seen many references to them on this site. If you could look up some specs. or a number in the meantime, that'd be great.
Just found the digi-key website, and I couldn't find the ic you were talking about. A number would be great.
------------------ inno73@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Inno (edited 12-27-1999).]
Posts: 490 | From: Fort Frances, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I was wondering how you guys got into thi stuff? Was it something you messed with in h.s.? or just a hobby you picked up? I am very intrested in doing something like this is there any simple projects to do or books to read? how hard is it to get started and get involved? Any replies would be aprecciated. thanks
Posts: 272 | From: Tyler, TX, U.S.A. | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
jc.. can you email me the schematics?? I downloaded protel.. thanx Inno.. the part I was looking at was exactly what jc mentioned.. the panasonic bbd either the mn3003-nd or mn3010-nd (those are digikey part #'s) 68.. well I got into this stuff from a combination of an electronics engineering program... and the fact my phoenix pld-1 was toast... rather then wait however long for warranty.. I just redesigned and built a new one.. it's kinda fun too as for simple projects try building yourself a line driver or x-over.. it's fairly simple probably the hardest part is getting a +,- 15 volt supply to power it..
------------------ 9 12's in the hatch of a golf
Posts: 735 | From: Calgary AB | Registered: Oct 1999
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