posted
would it be better to have 8 amps and 8 subs or have 8 amps and 4 subs? which would b better would it be better to have more one area or more power? If i had 4 subs and 8 amps do you think it would be the same as 8 amps and 8 subs? any suggestions?
------------------ Hey its got to be low and loud i want to feel the bass wave like 100 feet away Cerwin Vega Strokers and Zapco is the way to go we talk about g forces
posted
For SPL, the goal is pretty much to maximise displacement. This is the surface area times the excursion, which gives you the volume of air displaced. More subs is generally louder than less subs with more power, but then you get into car modifications and such. Speaking from experience, one amp per sub will be nicer due to the ability to run amps at a higher impedance (higher damping) but is possibly too expensive to be practical. When going with a cost-no-object SPL install, you can go up to 4 amplifiers per speaker (2 monoblocks bridged per coil on a dual voice coil driver) and get really CRAZY power.
ShadowStar
------------------ Computers are a lot like air conditioners.. Open Windows and they become useless..
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is the day they make vacuums.
Posts: 2578 | From: Somewhere In the Northeast | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I strongly dissagree w/shadow you will defintlly have higher spl from higher power with less subs from real experience. We have two db dragsters one w/24 12's 18000 watts 164.1 db built 2 years ago, since then We have learned alot now we have 2-15's with 5000 watts 164.7 db. The biggest playing role I have figured out it phasing relation between the woofers and the mic. This years db drag finals were a perfect example the 2 speaker class out scored 70% of all the competitors there, with the high of the weekend of 165.3 db with only 2-15's and two more cars hitting 164+. Then take Eric Reid and Larry Benton w/6 and 4 subs respectivly hitting stupid high #'s 169.2 and 169.4. So take it from experience when it comes to subs less is more.
------------------ Nothing beats EXPERIENCE!!!
Posts: 225 | From: cape girardeau, mo. usa | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sorry Joe,I.M.O I have to disagree with you. For me both physics theory, and practice shows that given the question of "surface area" or power,(keeping in mind each woofer has it's own chamber) Cone area wins hands down. Keeping in mind that a speaker will only push the amount of air it has to work with in the cabinet. You can force more power into it, and get higher excursion(you can also do it with several speakers) and the relation of power vs. air dispacement vs. $$$.$$ = air dispacement is cheaper and therefore more effective.
------------------ E.C. Wuz here
Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well Eli that is your opinion and everyone has different opinions my opinion is less woofers because i belive there is another reason why jay lovelace is only hitting 170dB is becasue all of the woofers i his vehicle are causing lots of airdisplacement and lots of air velocity going through there and i belive that in a vehicle like that it is gonna felx no matter how dead he has it due to the amount of woofer meanwhile having lesswoofers makes it easier to make it stiff in the vehicle not as much cone area ****ing the vehiclke in and out i odnt know if i can expolain it in words but you can still hit big with less subs due to theability of the cabin not bwing as stiff as it originally was due to the force of all the drivers shaking everything loose.
Posts: 404 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
in other words when there are less woofers there is less impact on the cab in vibration and it is easier to stiffen. Also with the same amount of power as say 24-12 inch subs with just 4 subs you could hit louder due to the fact of being able to place the woofers on a flat wall so less cancellation and more port area per sub depending on whether or not you choose ported enclosures. but also with so much power you can get the woofer moving to max xmax mean while just giving a sub like 300 watts is useless when it isnt gonna give ful output or has a a high vas and may explode underthat much pressure which isnt very efficent so may factors add up to this but i am going for the 4 woofer class next year and so far it isnt as easy as i thought but my box willo be loud. Loud has many factors and in the car audio industry you will learn therea are many factors. i think i am just not good at explaining my opinion over the post but btter over the phone.
Posts: 404 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well I wanted to comment on this. I might not be nearly as technically adept as the rest here but this is what I have seen.
Both seems to work. But that depends on the car and install and all that.
You go alot of subs and a good install and good amount of undistorted power to drive the sub to xmax SURE you will get numbers but you have the cancelation problem to deal with and that is sure to limit the potential.
You have a few subs and a TON of power and then some. You get the number cause for lack or a better term the extra power "makes" up for the loss in subs. But you also dont have the cancelation problem that MANY MANY subs gives.
Take that car with just a few subs and change that from like 4000 watts a driver to a the 750 or 1000 watts or what ever a driver that the multi sub cars have. The SPL drops ALOT. Going from there add driver at the same power sure you have more displacement but also more cancelation and what not.
So depend on what you have both seems to work. Is one better then the other? I dont think so. I dont care if you do 170 with 4 subs or with 40. 170 is loud no matter.
Like I said I am not as tech minded as you but I wanted to post an opinion from some one like me.
------------------ Looking to buy used Termpak and mics and sound card!! prospl152@aol.com Member Of "Team Gates" and "Team Shockwave" USAC Sactioned Judge -----Judged----- 1999 Spring Break Nationals 1999 Midwest Regional http://www.sounddomain.com/5349 My up and coming SQ and SPL system.
posted
Well, i was thinking about this the other day. To have a larger speaker, with more cone area, you need to have a larger amp. Isnt like SPL dependent on a few things like excursion, quality of the box, quality of the install, quality amps, subs, and electrical system? To me it seems that everything is dependent on everything else, if you get what i mean? To move more cone, you need more power. But power is dependent on the amp, which is dependent on the electrical system. To generate higher spl, the above mentioned is dependent on the box, the interior, and probably other things i cant think of right now. Im probably rambleing on. SOme one let me know if this makes any sense.
------------------ 2 MTX Thunder 3000 12" Power Acoustik 500x2 130watts x 2 Can you say DISTORTION!?
posted
Ben i., I agree with you that everything is dependant on everything else. You can have the best amps and the best subs but if the box is wrong the subs won't reach their maximum potential. And likewise if your electrical system does not put out the current and voltage your amps need they will not reach their potential. So you have to make sure that as you build, each part of your install must be able to handle the demands of the next part of the install. kw
Posts: 3161 | From: Kinston, NC | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
benthebass8, I know what your'e reffering to, the air preassure created by the mass being displaced in a small enviornment, like a car's interior, will cause all sorts of problems. But if you use 4-8's, instead of 2-10's, you'd have better results using the same power. You do however make a valid point.
------------------ E.C. Wuz here
Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I thoink the think the main thing I like about car audio is the fact that everyone has different opinions and i like hearing everyones different opinons. My opinion is of course different then everybody elses but I believe my dream vehicle to do up next after my van is done is a Milk truck they have a relatively flat windshield and it is like 10 feet high so i could put like 8 subs on a flat wall with tons of air space and could build seperate enclosures outside of the vehicle easier and slide them in and you would be pressuring such a small space which would all ow easyily to fit 2 regualr size people even with 10 layers on the floor and roof. It would be awesome of course you ouldnt do alternators but lots of batteries would be awesome. cool though lets hear some more opinions on cone area versus power.
Posts: 404 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
How about a school-bus, you may get a longer wavelegth in there, and the windshield is flat as well. The roof can be reinforced easily enough too.
------------------ E.C. Wuz here
Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe in perfect conditions more cone area would win out. however ,we don't always have perfect conditions. It's a little harder to get perfect wave alignment with 9+ woofers then with 2. also, cabin area will more than likely be greater with the 9+ setup due to the mounting surface. lets face it ,you couldn't put 9+ 15" subs on a single plane in a chevette. JMHO
posted
umm ok lets lok at this from this point of view ..John Henery or Jay Lovlace both do 170.0 with 12-15" and 24 amsp that over 2200 watts a sub or you have Eric Reid doing 170.0 with 6-15's and 2000+ watts a sub. Whats this mean ...i think this comes down to being able to pressure the cabin better not more woofers are better or less wofers are better ..it's INSTALL or the vehicle. This is just my opinion but this is my opinion based on LOTS of time spent studing different designs for my db drag car and what i have stated is nothing more than the obvious...well hope this helps also
Posts: 65 | From: St.Peters, Mo. | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well said HccaIntegra. In a sense I think you have a valid point. Keeping in mind that if a 3dB difference = doubling of power, and 12-15's are twice as much as 6-15's, yet the power difference is about 1%, I doubt it would make much diff. in the results as you indicated. But if those 12-15's were getting the same power ratio as the 6-15's I would think the difference to be more substensial. Also there is only so much air pressure built up before it escapes out any seam in the car,from vent holes to naturally made slots for cabeling etc. And once you seal all those nasty holes, then pressure will blow it's way out any way it can. So, we'll need a TANK!
just yammering...
------------------ E.C. Wuz here
Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like I have same MANY times. Its the install/application more so them the product. You can do some killer stuff with a few subs with the right install or a ton with the right install.
Install is key.
With what eli said. The measure of SPL(dB) is not a linear system. As the spl goes up that simple double the power or cone area at the same power gets thrown out the window.
------------------ Looking to buy used Termpak and mics and sound card!! Robert (Rob) 1996 Chevy Cavlier 2.2L proaudio150@aol.com Member Of "Team Gates" and "Team Shockwave" USAC Sactioned Judge -----Judged----- 1999 Spring Break Nationals 1999 Midwest Regional http://www.sounddomain.com/5349 My up and coming SQ and SPL system.
posted
well i am the one who strted this topic to see everyone different opinions on cone area. So my conclusion is that every vehicle you can fit a certain amount in it until you reach the vehicles maximum gain.
In other words If 4 subs hit 172 dB and then you have another vehicle with 12 woofers in it hitting 172 dB in teh same vehicle then maybe 4 was all you needed in order to hit the max gain of the vehicle. Just a thought maybe there is more to it than cone area and 24000 watts of power maybe there is some sort of physics law for a cabin interior and maybe the resonance wont be able to peak anymore at a certain amount. Well just a thought if anyone wants to share an opinion on it.
------------------ 3-4 woofer class for next year. Come one come all Caraslam here I come. Hopefully a future Team Hertz member when I am done the 89 Astrovan. Everytime you think you know everything you dont and always be willing to learn. I always want to learn more.
posted
I definately think less subs and more power is the better way to go. I had 24 12's and now I am changing to 6 15's and runnin the same power from 24 subs to 6. So i think that is easier and cheaper and most of the cars with less subs were louder than the ones with more. But you cant forget Alma though. If done right a ton of subs will be just as loud if not louder. But who has the money to buy 64 10" subs? Not I.
------------------ Using less subs, getting more SPL! HCCA! 10000 WATTS!
Posts: 403 | From: Spokane Wa USA | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Benthebass8, you are absolutly right, you'll get any chamber up to saturation, and then, it all goes out the window also. I'm sure that many things happen as the air gets compressed, it'll take much more power to move it, so yes, the 3dB thing goes out the window "at a certain point". So let's not argue with mother nature and be happy with maximum headbang power that we can get our grubs on.
------------------ E.C. Wuz here
Posts: 1057 | From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 'eh | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a question everybody is talking about 6/12 15's what about people with 8 15's and 8 amps and people with only 5 15's and five amps hitting up near the 170's there not doing all of this crazy power to make big numbers . and i think everybody knows the rabbits and the caravan , they are not nothing special but it is very hard too beat both teams in there class , there both record holders finalist winners for two years , these guys are the bomb. for having you could say less , so think the cabin and the box play a more of a role than people think Posts: 63 | From: WOODLAND,PARK COLORADO | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
