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Not specifically for the Metro guys' case (Man they've come out of the woodwork this week ), which I now have quite a bit more respect for, coming on and answering everyones Q's in an adult manner, but this is on the outlaw thing. EVERY car I've seen wasn't always louder outlaw. They can be built toward one or the other with enclosure, power, and interior considerations. Remember about a couple of years ago Alma entered the Bronco in outlaw and at USAC Finals and did a 161, while her drag score at the time was mid 170's. After you get to a certain point with a drag car(depending on the car/system, of course), I believe you can lose SPL by opening the car up. I don't really know anything about the green van's particular case, though....JMHO
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Thanks for the input Wayne. Now on to the other questions.
dBDragger... You question if we use/used anything to achieve higher scores (and no you are not stepping on any toes). The only thing we use to achieve our score is pressure. As I have stated before, we have no interest in obtaining scores using anything but that. It doesn't help us learn, and as many of you stated, we would eventually get caught anyway. We would rather lose than win like that. As for the delay in our #, that is another question that would have to be directed to Wayne and/or the mic makers. I just don't have the knowledge to answer that one. But it is a problem that haunts us every once in awhile on our meter. Hopefully, this year, with Wayne's revisions, it won't happen!!! As for the fine powder all over the interior.... dust from kitty hair bondo. No matter how much you blow out an interior, when you use as much of that stuff as we do, the dust never seems to go away. Trust us, we wish we could get it ALL out of there!!!
SweetSoundsAudio... That article was published without our consent. There were alot of things in it that we did not agree with. We never said that we would wait till a meter was good enough for us (which is how they made it sound). We simply stated we hope this year would have a mic that didn't throw up crazy #s. Funny how someone can twist a little phrase. As for the most accurate meter for big #s... that would have to be the B&K. But you are also talking a VERY expensive meter. Wayne's has been doing quite well up till last year, so let's see what happens this year. Spiking the mic. Did we do it??? NO!!!! As earlier stated, we wouldn't learn if we took the easy road. Simple as that. The CRX... that car has gotten so popular. We are using 1 MMATS HC and yes the box is ported. And your last question... was I at CES. I sure was not. I just started actually working for Metro Audio 3 months ago, but have always been behind the scenes working on the van and such. Just could never get time off my other jobs to go to functions like that. But I will now, and I will be looking forward to meeting and talking to you all.
HccaIntegra... You ask why the low score in outlaw. Easy question. We broke. That was when we started having problems with the van. Plain and simple. As for our 167 in Indy, we dropped a power class and had 12 of the MMATS 50HC amplifiers. No these are not 50 watt amps. They do 800 watts into half ohm. Very legit. And if you ask anyone that was at that show, the meter was about 2 dB down. We were anticipating a 169 which would have been a new record in that class. But hey, we won't cry about it. But I do want to thank you for your supporting words, and look for us at USAC. We are always looking for more people to party with!!!
The Buzz... you are correct about losing pressure when the doors are open on the van. But that wasn't the reason for our low #. We broke.
I want to thank everyone for the in depth questions. Please keep them coming!!!
------------------ Brian Obara Metro Audio Dynamics Omaha, NE
[This message has been edited by Griz (edited 09-04-99).]
Posts: 732 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Aug 1999
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Just out of curiosity??? You say the amplifiers are putting out 800 watts at .5ohm's. That would tell me that John is recoiling the Jugs. I would say he is putting 1.4 ohm coils in them. Would that be legal Wayne??? Maybe Griz has an answer for me. I know John wouldn't waste power. I just assume he is using 1 per woofer. That would only make sense. Dual voice coil subs. He maybe using .7 ohm coils? What do you have to say Griz????
------------------ You can't stop the rain.
Posts: 389 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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Mack... JH is not recoiling woofers. The new jugs are dual 2 ohm drivers. So, in essence, we were "wasting power" in Indy. We did not have time to wire in Accumatches. We put in the new amps, was doing a decent #, so we left it. Hope this helps!!!
------------------ Brian Obara Metro Audio Dynamics Omaha, NE
Posts: 732 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Aug 1999
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Come on now, Griz. You aren't really going to run that much power through an accumatch. I know JH wouldn't do something like that. This isn't his first system. He knows that the accumatch is going to be inefficent. That is why he uses a Class D amp. He could have found several other amplifiers that will do 800 watts at a 4 ohm load. That would be much easier on charging. I suspect that JH will build his own Accumatch if anything. I really don't see this happening. John is much smarter than that. I am sorry if I questioned the legality of this. I didn't mean to.
------------------ You can't stop the rain.
Posts: 389 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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You are correct Mack... you wouldn't run that much power through just one Accumatch. That is why you parallel them. We have great success with them when needed (and when we have time to wire them in!!) As far as running other amplifiers... we would not dream of leaving MMATS support. Their products have worked wonders for us.
------------------ Brian Obara Metro Audio Dynamics Omaha, NE
Posts: 732 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Aug 1999
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Am I correct that Greg Pauly is the MMATS rep in the Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri area. I would like to talk with him. My emial is chad@velocity-tech.com. give it to him if you would. I will get him my phone number. Thanks. Oh, by the way. Everyone is apprecitive of someone form Metro addressing some issues. Of course, the way I see it, you guys don't owe anyone anything really.
------------------ You can't stop the rain.
Posts: 389 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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1st--- thanx for the responses to my last questions, I appreciate your time...
This question is directed at who ever may know the answer, and since the Metro guys deal with mmats a lot, I thought I would stick it in here.
background info: We used to deal mmats equipment.
At CES this past year, I was talking with david thompson of mmats and he said he was thinking of relabeling the HC's (D100hc, d200hc, d300hc) and rating them at a maximum rms of 800W. My question is, is the 50HC a realization of this, and if so, do competitors feel good about using "cheater" amplifiers....(this includes other manufactures doing similar things)?
again, this is not hearsay, this is what david told me when we were sitting down during a scheduled meeting between ourselves.
and, Griz...I saw some interesting things on the mmats site....please comment on the following..
"On Saturday, John scored an earth shattering 175.8 dB in qualifying that had everyone thinking something was not right."
was that a legit score? or a mic/computer error?
"Keep in mind the big difference here is that all the competitors except for John were using high frequencies, which was one of the major increases about 5 dB that was discovered about a year ago. ........ Theoretically, you could add 5dB to his number to make it close to the 180 dB mark or subtract 5 dB from Alma's & Jay's which would bring them down to about the 168 or 169 dB area"
note: these were both signed "David Thompson" at the bottom of the page
what note were you guys using? and what do you think of one of you sponsors making comments like this?
------------------
Jeff Owner, Sweet Sounds. Team Sweet Sounds is gathering information....all are welcome Authorized Dealer for Cerwin Vega, Image Dynamics, Clarion Pro Audio, Stinger, Hifonics and more..... Digital Desings & more coming soon
First question is this. What about the usac judge that took a cloth wiped the dash of the van off then it was sent off for testing. That may or may have been done with John knowing. But I have talked to someone by the screen name of billmad on aol that was aware of it but got off the net before he gave his story. So how do you explain that this cloth showed PVC deritives? (sorry for the spelling). Same stuff found in air bag "gas".
Also further question on that stuff...Well it was rather directional. Lets say it was that bondo dust or what ever. Well looking at it and knowing that the van was sealed where did the air come from that caused it to go in that direction? Lets say it was accidential air that leaked in through the dash...Well according to rules on accident or not that would be DQ.
All this would have been cool if the was was open and all would have seen this. but this is a new year and I will be at db drag finals to see the van that according to rules MUST be open.
But I will also look at in not prejudging.
See you there
------------------ _____________________ Member of "Team Underconstruction" Can you say 172dB outlaw 167 legal in a yugo? We can:-) 1999 USAC Finals Qualifier Usac Sactioned Judge -----Judged----- 1999 Spring Break Nationals 1999 Midwest Regional 1983 Camaro-152dB old system..new system on the way. -Irc Chat Room- chat.talkcity.com ports 6667,6668,6669,7000 Room Name #auto-audio I am the room coordinator for this room. Stop by sometime and say hi...We are busy after 9:00cdt usually.
Posts: 8036 | From: Huron,Oh | Registered: May 1999
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SweetSoundsAudio... The amplifiers known as the 50HC to my knowledge are not as strong as the 1200 watt HC's. We played around with them in our CRX and lost approximately 1.5dB. So, to call it a cheater amp... I wouldn't think you could label it that. As far as your comment on cheater amps in general, I myself am against them and the whole modified interior thing all together. But hey, who am I??? To comment on the "earth shattering" 175.8dB reading, I wouldn't be in the right if I told you it was a legit score. The meter as we all know is stable to 175. So what if we hit 175.1, and it jumped to that??? I couldn't tell you. But let me assure you the van was very capable of the 174.7dB reading we produced. And we used 70hz. The same frequency we have been using for a long time.
Proaudio150... I will answer your question, but let me ask you this... how do we know the rag that was used to dust the dash did not already have PVC derivitives in it??? But to answer, from what I know, kitty hair bondo does have PVC in it. And as I mentioned earlier in this post, we really wish we could get all of it out of there!!! As for the directional pattern... I was not aware of any directional pattern to the dust. From what I remember, there was a tape of one of Jay Lovelace's runs circulating around showing that. Are you sure you are not thinking of that???
Guys, please do not think I am trying to hide anything. I am answering your questions to the best of my ability. As I have mentioned before, only you can change your mind about us... I can only supply the FACTS to persuade. Thank you.
------------------ Brian Obara Metro Audio Dynamics Omaha, NE
Posts: 732 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Aug 1999
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Well thanks for the answer. And you are right you dont know about the cloth...But in the same respect how do I know that it was not the "gas"....all comes down to what someone says. Who knows...but I thank you for the answer..and you are right I am thinking of the wrong video..lol...Sorry..
------------------ _____________________ Member of "Team Underconstruction" Can you say 172dB outlaw 165+ legal in a yugo? We can:-) 1999 USAC Finals Qualifier Usac Sactioned Judge -----Judged----- 1999 Spring Break Nationals 1999 Midwest Regional 1983 Camaro-152dB old system..new system on the way. -Irc Chat Room- chat.talkcity.com ports 6667,6668,6669,7000 Room Name #auto-audio I am the room coordinator for this room. Stop by sometime and say hi...We are busy after 9:00cdt usually.
Posts: 8036 | From: Huron,Oh | Registered: May 1999
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Well I may have an answer to the 50HC Question. I am in no way affiliated with mmats or M.A.D. I just have some information which I am not sure is true, but would make sense. I have heard through the grape vine that these new mmats amps are rated at 10 volts. Now this would explain the low ratings, and why this amps are used to power subs that need gobs of power. Oh well, just a thought.
Jeremy Breger Team Xtreme Audio Team Hertz
------------------ Jeremy Breger Team Hertz Rebuilding after tragic SBN.
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Man I don't know who to believe here... The bottom line is there is no proof either way. Not to step on any toes here, but you and I know this is true. The van is within the limits of current measurement equipment. Good luck at finals guys..
------------------ Johnathan Demuth Team Tiny Tunes MMATS PRO AUDIO
[This message has been edited by TinyTunes (edited 09-09-99).]
posted
This all goes back to a post someone started long ago, one which people didnt' like what I had to say about secrecy. People dont get on top giving out all they're secrets, PERIOD! How could they? If eveyone knew how to make single 15's hit harder than 2, the competition would suffer. It is the spirit of competition that drives us all to make our systems better, and push the envelope of technology. Why would anyone expect someone to reveal they're secrets? Imagine if the US government told us everything about everything. We would not be the super power that we are. Giving the competition your secrets is like shooting yourself in the foot. Painful. Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers today!
------------------ STILL waiting to hear a GOOD pair of HLCD's!!
If it dont fit, force it... if it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyway...
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well put brad, you said what needed to be said, btw WE are priveledged to live in omaha. sound off every week you can't beat it!!! and with people like you and garreans(team stereo west) around it can only get better!!
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Posts: 294 | From: Omaha, NE USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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From what I am getting from this whole deal with JH and the Metro crew, is not that people are asking for specific blueprints to the van, they are asking for answers to some assumptions and "legality" inquiries. This is an opinion.
Adam Sippel ???????????? TEAM EPICENTER "STEP UP TO THE BUTTON!!" 1999 Wisconsin Outlaw and Outlaw Extreme State Record Holder 101-250 Watts!!!!!
Posts: 54 | From: Plymouth, WI, USA | Registered: May 1999
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I would like to thank everyone for your cooperation in getting some things straight about the van and ourselves as a whole. Please hunt me down in KY. As I said before, I am the good looking one out of the bunch.
------------------ Brian Obara Metro Audio Dynamics Omaha, NE
Posts: 732 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Aug 1999
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Griz, Just so you know if I go to finals with you guys I will definitly be the most attractive one of the bunch. I miss being in Omaha, it kinda sucks up here in BFE (Ames). I hope Big John is ready for finals. I have enough points, should I bring the "big, bad, baby d" down there...LOL....I'll see ya this weekend Bri. Tell Bill I said hi, he was giving me crap in the chat room earlier this week. He was saying...I love 4 TEC, I love Chuck....I was about to kill him, then I realized....duh....BillMAD.....See ya later Tony Jordan Getting closer to that 150...
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