posted
Everyone seems to be overlooking the simple way to see if someone has hidden batts... just remove the positive and negative battery cables and stick them together If there are hidden batteries you will know it then Seriously though... just remove the positive cable and test it for voltage...
-------------------- Scottie Johnson Sound Pressure Technologies
posted
let's just say, you have a batcap in your vehicle. not even in a stock battery case, but anywhere. now let's say, your vehicle is a ford explorer. now, it is common knowledge that most ford explorers factory charging systems run as high as 15vdc. that would create an awesome senerio, stock charging system charging your hidden batcap at 15vdc. and what about the hidden accuvolt. it steps up your voltage with the car off aswell. i say, cover all grey areas.
-------------------- Team Livewire Posts: 2199 | From: columbus, ohio | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Is it not legal to charge a regular 12v battery to 16v on a battery charger between runs? Last time I checked the rules stated you needed a 12v charging system in your car for it to be legal. Putting a 16v surface charge on 12v battery should be legal as the rules also state a maximum system voltage with no specific class implied. Yes or no?
Also if someone has an upgraded alternator in a street class is that considered a violation? I know of several street cars with Ohio Generator stickers on them and Og under the hood. If not what is the highest you can set the alternator to and be legal 14.4v? I ask this because typically most cars I work with charge to 14.4v with the stock system however, my car only charges to 12.5v. Is it legal for me to chage my alternator since the cars can't run in the lane? Will I get DQ'd at finals, bottom line?
Posts: 1674 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BIG YUKON T: Is it not legal to charge a regular 12v battery to 16v on a battery charger between runs? Last time I checked the rules stated you needed a 12v charging system in your car for it to be legal. Putting a 16v surface charge on 12v battery should be legal as the rules also state a maximum system voltage with no specific class implied. Yes or no?
Also if someone has an upgraded alternator in a street class is that considered a violation? I know of several street cars with Ohio Generator stickers on them and Og under the hood. If not what is the highest you can set the alternator to and be legal 14.4v? I ask this because typically most cars I work with charge to 14.4v with the stock system however, my car only charges to 12.5v. Is it legal for me to chage my alternator since the cars can't run in the lane? Will I get DQ'd at finals, bottom line?
Correct, only 12 volt 'systems' in Street class. Maximum voltage in street class is 18 volts Your allowed to replace your alt with an aftermarket alt.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
your car has to be off, so it don't matter what kind of alt you have... and as long as you're within the voltage requirements while in the lanes you're good. You can charge as high as you want between rounds... but charging 12volt batts much over 15volts will kill it pretty quickly.
-------------------- Scottie Johnson Sound Pressure Technologies
posted
I think the reson scott posted this was aimed more toward extreme classes. He just want to make sure his competitors on playing on the same feild as everyone else, as i sure everyone does. SS inpections shouldn't take to long, just pull back a panel here, check a thing there, rather simple. extreme on the other hand takes getting in and out of the cab, busting out the ruler and calulator to check windshield and center console. and a few other things. and that brings us to street. what everyone seam to be focused on, do a simple check, box height, battery. etc. nothing as intense as everyone descibing. BUT i will say that every i mean every winning car should be inspected after they win there class checking everything down to following the power wire/ checking speaker/ amps/ EVERYTHING when the judge is done they should know what size fuse is in the headunit I know time at finals is rather limited, but i know this can be done
One other thing, can we please check the cd AFTER the run. It take forever to track midway threw a 80 track cd then set the volume etc. when you worried about getting all the bolt in your door, rca hooked up, the alternators just right.
quote:Originally posted by J_P: One other thing, can we please check the cd AFTER the run. It take forever to track midway threw a 80 track cd then set the volume etc. when you worried about getting all the bolt in your door, rca hooked up, the alternators just right.
What if you have the wrong CD ... ??? Verifying the CD before the run is very important. Its worth the time to track up verses getting dq'd in the final round after winning or setting a new world record. In a case like that, if you want to take the chance of being DQ'd ... then that is up to you. I would rather help the competitors make sure they have the right CD or make sure their motor is turned off than to have something bad happen later.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Lets see how many pass these rules.. 3-5 Nothing must interfere with the placement of the microphone or the use of the microphone jig.
Additional Requirements for Extreme Division competitors
· Each competitor must provide adequate space for the placement of the microphone stand on the passenger side of the vehicle. (A minimum 12-inch diameter horizontal flat surface is required.)
· Competitors are requested to attach 3 straps (tie-down, Velcro, or equivalent), spaced in a Y configuration, to hold the legs of the microphone stand in place. Additional Guidelines:
· For clarification purposes, the dBDRA defines an average size contestant as someone who is 66 inches (5’ 6” or 167.64cm) tall. (The actual contestant does not necessarily need to be the one who sits in the vehicle to demonstrate compliance with the following tests. However, if another individual is used to demonstrate compliance, that individual must meet or exceed the specified height requirements as defined above.)
· For clarification purposes, contestants must be capable of demonstrating compliance with this rule on both the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle.
· Contestants may not lean forward, backward, or to one side when demonstrating compliance with this rule.
· Contestants may not tilt their head forward, backward or to one side when demonstrating compliance with this rule.
· Contestants may not sit “cross-legged” nor may they “squat” or “kneel” when demonstrating compliance with this rule. In all instances, contestants must place their feet in front of their bodies when demonstrating compliance with this rule.
· While seated, the location of the contestant’s heels may not be located at a point that is higher than the plane on which the contestant is sitting.
· No part of the contestant’s body may be located behind the front surface of the subwoofer enclosure’s front baffle board when demonstrating compliance with this rule
· For clarification purposes, contestants must be capable of demonstrating compliance with this rule on both the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle.
· Build-downs that impede the contestant’s view will be considered an obstruction, even if the material being used is transparent in nature.
· The dBDRA considers any roof build-down that extends to a point below the contestant’s eyebrows an obstruction.
4-3 This rule (4-3) applies to Extreme Division competitors only. The OEM glass in the windshield and / or side windows to the vehicle may be replaced with another material as long as that material approximates the location and functionality of the original equipment. (i.e. Plexiglas, bullet-proof glass, or another fully transparent material.)
Additional Guidelines:
· The “slant” of the replacing material must approximate that of the OEM glass.
· The unobstructed viewing area for the front windshield must be 4 square feet (0.3716m^2) or larger. The unobstructed viewing area must be symmetrical in nature, with equivalent transparent areas on both the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle. Important: Only areas of the windshield that are not impeded in any way will be considered unobstructed. For example, if windshield braces or the dashboard blocks portions of the windshield, those portions will not count as part of the unobstructed viewing area.
4-5 This rule (4-5) applies to Extreme Division competitors only. A removable or flip-down panel(s) may be used to cover the OEM foot wells.
Additional Guidelines
· In the interest of safety, competitors are encouraged not to modify the vehicle’s OEM foot pedals (accelerator pedal, brake pedal, clutch, and parking brake).
Just seen a few that cant do it so hopefully they will by finals.... · The “2 adult rule” (3-4) will be administered while the panel(s) are in place.
Posts: 367 | From: ALABAMA | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by PHILESTER: to all the judges out there, lets make sure we are inspecting for batcaps....hint hint street class!!!
phil
Who EXACTLY was/is/will be the person or persons cheating like this?
If it was in the past, did it help them? Was it in 2002? Cause it didn't seem to help them in 3-4 at least. Hell, put the name out there. Inquiring minds want to know
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com Posts: 2734 | From: Mankato MN | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: If a competitor running over 4000 watts has a voltage drop of less than 0.5 V during a burp, then there's something else there. Even with 1700s and miles of 1/0 cable, almost all vehicles running 4000 watts or more should drop down into the 11s for voltage. That could be an easy way to check a vehicle that you "question" but can't find anything.
Sorry, that for surely won't work. Besides the fact that all meters have a different "time window" they will take their readings in, in our 3-4 car last year, that I can guarantee was putting out WAY over 4000 rms, we did not get voltage drops like that, unless we did it on purpose. And we had a bad battery at finals with a hole in the bottom!
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com Posts: 2734 | From: Mankato MN | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
This all sounds great. I don't know how much the voltage drop on a 1700 is but when I find out I'll sure post it. I know for a fact that Marys car was droping into the 10s last year in the final round. I was holding the frecking volt meter during the run. But I guess one of the batteries could have been bad. I love steves ideas about testing also. I'll be more than happy to show my power wire, how about you guys . Lets make it manditory, if a competitor says they can't show it all, to bad, dq them, we all know its not that hard. I for one have used the batcap 400s and let me tell you that they will run circles around regular batteries and in alot smaller size also. I don't really see someone fitting alot of them into a battery case, there not that small, but I guess its possible. You could however fit them in many panels of vehilcles. I've even heard competitors mention it. Why not set up a competitors poll about it. Mark off the power wire with stickers like Sam Horns small mic position stickers that no one else has to make sure someone doesn't add a wire directly to the battery. Just some ideas, but Steve is right, the judges will be able to get more work done this year without the calibrating between ever round.
-------------------- KCG Team Maxxsonics Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I think it would just go a long way if all the winners (or even better, the top 3) in each class & all world record setters had a 10 minute tear down by one or two judges.
If a loser cheats, who cares. If a winner cheats, catch em red handed and make a damn example out of them. That should take care of those problems for now and in the future.
BUT PLEASE DO NOT SAY YOU ARE GOING TO TEAR DOWN UNLESS YOU STAND BEHIND IT!!!!!!!!
Distant memories now appear: Although, some years ago a competitor was caught switching end plates on amps at finals and little was done about it. It was a blatant disregard for the rules. If memory serves, he was "trying to make a point". Either way, not such a good standard to set.
You figure 2 records per class + 3 winners (which are almost always the record setters) x 11 classes -> That means 5.5 hours of teardown. Now that would be cool!
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com Posts: 2734 | From: Mankato MN | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote: to all the judges out there, lets make sure we are inspecting for batcaps....hint hint street class!!!
phil
This sounds real super. If so then I will put my mind to come to the Finals..
-------------------- Cactus Sounds 4 x World Champ 3 x Euro Champ 4 X Swiss Champ 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 6226 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by scottiej: Everyone seems to be overlooking the simple way to see if someone has hidden batts... just remove the positive and negative battery cables and stick them together If there are hidden batteries you will know it then Seriously though... just remove the positive cable and test it for voltage...
I don't really see this as a good solution either Scottie. Couldn't a competitor hide a couple rows of Hawker Cyclon 2v cells (Batcaps, whatever... ) under their seat or carpet somewhere and use a relay and a remote control to switch them on and off? So right before they go into the lanes they switch them on...same voltage, just alot more current available. Then after the run, switch them back off. Then if anyone took both ends of the power wire loose, the voltage at each end would read ZERO.
I'm not an installer and don't know much about remotes and relays, but even I could think of this little trick. Imagine what a knowledgeable installer, with a real desire to cheat, could come up with!
I say that pulling up some seats and carpet, like Steve mentioned, would be the only way to really check.
posted
Or better yet...maybe we should all move to SS classes! LOL SS is the place with the least amount of grey areas and potential to cheat. Then we could all have real cars and most could be driveable. How about this...
SS 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10+
Ten classes that are more competitive and with alot fewer headaches! I just have to figure out how to put the stock windows back in the OMNI!
quote:Originally posted by scottiej: Everyone seems to be overlooking the simple way to see if someone has hidden batts... just remove the positive and negative battery cables and stick them together If there are hidden batteries you will know it then Seriously though... just remove the positive cable and test it for voltage...
If he/she is using capacitor that is bad idea.
If someone is using relay or diodes than this test will show nothing.
Only way is to check car completely to see any hidden batteries.
Posts: 1820 | From: Ljubljana, Slovenia | Registered: Jan 2000
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