quote:Originally posted by smebysound: ok correct me if im wrong again but the seats CAN be removed but must be able to be put back in WITHOUT moving the box/amps/battery
wrong.
quote:3-8c Seats may be folded for competition, but may not be removed from the vehicle unless they were originally designed as a consumer removable component. Competitors who fold their seats must be able to demonstrate that the installation of the sound system does not interfere with the normal operation of the seats that were folded.
Additional Guidelines:
· Any removable seat that remains installed in the vehicle during competition will be treated identically to a permanently installed seat.
· If a removable seat has been removed from the vehicle prior to competition, then the officiating staff will treat the vehicle as if that seat doesn?t exist.
if the seat doesn't exist, then its not an issue as far as replacing the seat w/ equipment in the way.
Good Question though. The only bad ones are those not asked.
So tell me if I have this right. I have a 1995 pontiac bonneville. The seats are not designed to be folded down. But I do know how to unbolt them and remove them. If I removed them BEFORE I went to the comp. And my box and equipment were all fully in the trunk I could compete without the rear seat present in say a street A class?
Posts: 49 | From: Las Vegas Nevada | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by smebysound: ok correct me if im wrong again but the seats CAN be removed but must be able to be put back in WITHOUT moving the box/amps/battery
wrong.
quote:3-8c Seats may be folded for competition, but may not be removed from the vehicle unless they were originally designed as a consumer removable component. Competitors who fold their seats must be able to demonstrate that the installation of the sound system does not interfere with the normal operation of the seats that were folded.
Additional Guidelines:
· Any removable seat that remains installed in the vehicle during competition will be treated identically to a permanently installed seat.
· If a removable seat has been removed from the vehicle prior to competition, then the officiating staff will treat the vehicle as if that seat doesn?t exist.
if the seat doesn't exist, then its not an issue as far as replacing the seat w/ equipment in the way.
Good Question though. The only bad ones are those not asked.
So tell me if I have this right. I have a 1995 pontiac bonneville. The seats are not designed to be folded down. But I do know how to unbolt them and remove them. If I removed them BEFORE I went to the comp. And my box and equipment were all fully in the trunk I could compete without the rear seat present in say a street A class?
No because that is not designed to be a consumer removeable component. And you are using tools to unbolt the seat. Maybe if you seat had a button to push and have it come out. And to be designed to do that.
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posted
Ok I looked in my buddies owners manual....he has a 79 rabbit......it doesnt say that the seat is "user removable" in the manual....but there is just 2 clips to take it out fully....I think wayne needs to change the rules to where it defines "user removable". Cause there is tons of "GRAY AREA" right now.
posted
Yep, you can bend the rules all round. Hope he can get this fixed before the Finals because there will be big diffreances in minds. I just want to see that all Comp. get along and have fun and not haven to worry that one car is not ok and the other is, with the same car. Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- CN Cactus Sounds WR SM 1-2 164.8db World Champ 04-07 Euro Champ 04. 06. 07. 4 X Swiss Champ 02,03,05 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 5957 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
And what happens, if the "user removablility" is given in one country, but is NOT given in another?
Will the same car be judged in a different way? Or will the same car be judge the same way all around the world?
Üüüühh!!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Alan, The rules are that the seat has to be designed to come out so you can have it for cargo use. Thats why alot of cars dont get to use it. Johnnys probe has a back seat that comes out with no tools but we cant pull it because it was not designed to come out for more cargo space. The manual has to state it can be pulled for cargo space.
-------------------- TEAM BUDWIESER Posts: 240 | From: Springfield MO | Registered: Jun 2003
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In Australia, not sure if this is the case in other countries, some sports cars (RX7 i know of) have 4 seats, 2 front, 2 back, but some can only be registered for 2 front seats. IE, nobody is allowed to sit in the rear.
Therefore, wouldn't you be able to fold the seats down and place box on top, because in essence, the rear seats AREN'T allowed to be used (illegal) and thus don't really exist?
Anyways , I say to remove any grey areas, why not just not allow people to remove seats AT ALL!!! (hehe, sorry, australia doesnt seem to have any of these "grey area" cars...)
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150's is the aim, S1-2 is the game... Posts: 159 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: here's one for you.......
the back seat of a certain vehicle has fold down rear seats. The seat cushion flips forward, and the seat back flips down. kind of like a jeep cherokee or grand cherokee back seat.
the seat cushion has a handle on the underside of the seat. this handle is visible when the seat bottom is flipped forward. In the owner's manual, it shows that the seat bottom is a user removable item to allow the user to gain more cargo space!!!!
In this situation, could the box sit on the top of the now folded rear seat backs? the rear seats are made useless by the "user removable" seat bottoms. You don;t have rear seats anymore, right?!!?!
I am curous to here some opinions about this setup. any judges out there?
oh yeah, this vehicle does exist....here in the US and in Europe.......any guesses?
We've delt w/ this in the past. The box cannot sit ontop of a folded down seat EVEN THOUGH the seat has become useless because of the bottom part being user removable and missing making the entire area, according to the owner manual completly cargo area. Bottom line, no box on top of folded down seats.
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dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8334 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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My mustang cobra had "2 buttons" under the seat cushion to remove it. Was it designed to be removeable for extra cargo space???? nope, but you could do it.
If you can't prove it with pictures and dialogue from an owner's manual, you are probably out of luck. that's how I am interpetting all of this.
Correct
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dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8334 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Matze: And what happens, if the "user removablility" is given in one country, but is NOT given in another?
Will the same car be judged in a different way? Or will the same car be judge the same way all around the world?
Üüüühh!!! Matze
it will be judged differently. If its not an option, then find a vehicle that does have the option. Its like in the USA ... Some Chevy Astro Vans come w/ seats bolted in and some come with latches that allow user to remove them within seconds. Only the van that has removable seats would be allowed to run w/o in the street class EVEN THOUGH both vans are exactly the same with the exception of how the seats attach.
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dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8334 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: In Australia, not sure if this is the case in other countries, some sports cars (RX7 i know of) have 4 seats, 2 front, 2 back, but some can only be registered for 2 front seats. IE, nobody is allowed to sit in the rear.
Therefore, wouldn't you be able to fold the seats down and place box on top, because in essence, the rear seats AREN'T allowed to be used (illegal) and thus don't really exist?
No box may rest on top of a folded seat NO MATTER THE VEHICLE in street class.
quote:Anyways , I say to remove any grey areas, why not just not allow people to remove seats AT ALL!!! (hehe, sorry, australia doesnt seem to have any of these "grey area" cars...)
That sounds like a great idea!
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8334 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyways , I say to remove any grey areas, why not just not allow people to remove seats AT ALL!!! (hehe, sorry, australia doesnt seem to have any of these "grey area" cars...) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you like the fleet of crx's and exps that are at finals....cause thats all u will have....and a few ex cab trucks....o i about forgot and one LOUD NEON
the rule should not allow the removal of any 1st or 2nd row seating areas. (they may be folded though.) 3rd row seats that are "user removable" may still be allowed to be removed.
Also, something must be done about the 2-seat car loopholes. Put some clause in the rules stating something like this:
"the subwoofer enclosure must be contained in the MAIN cargo area of the vehicle. This does not include 'parcel' or 'package' trays. Amplifers may reside in the 'parcel' or 'package' tray area as long as the amplifier is concealed. Amps may not rest on top of the tray."
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: Also, something must be done about the 2-seat car loopholes. Put some clause in the rules stating something like this:
"the subwoofer enclosure must be contained in the MAIN cargo area of the vehicle. This does not include 'parcel' or 'package' trays. Amplifers may reside in the 'parcel' or 'package' tray area as long as the amplifier is concealed. Amps may not rest on top of the tray."
I would say: Car has to be a normal car, with plates and insurence on it. No cargovans etc. All seats must be functional, and stay in the car. Backseats may be folded, but not removed from the car. Seat may not be modifyed, to make the car louder. All equipment must be in the trunk, and under the rearshelf. Thats including amps. The equipment must not be placed, so the seat can not be put in the original position - the seat must remain fully functional.
In denmark only car registred as cargo-vans have 2 seats, all others have more seats (event though the seats can be totally useless) so we dont have the 2-seater problem.
quote:Originally posted by wooferwagon: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyways , I say to remove any grey areas, why not just not allow people to remove seats AT ALL!!! (hehe, sorry, australia doesnt seem to have any of these "grey area" cars...) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you like the fleet of crx's and exps that are at finals....cause thats all u will have....and a few ex cab trucks....o i about forgot and one LOUD NEON
I don't mind so much, nobody uses CRX's here because they all come with 4 seats, and we don't get the exps as far as I know
Everyone here still uses "normal" cars without trying to exploit the rules like the rest of the world
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150's is the aim, S1-2 is the game... Posts: 159 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2002
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posted
i have a full size bronco and this rule applies to me
i have a rear seat that can be removed in less than one minute....only held by two pull pins
the back seat is designed to be user removable so you can utilize the full cargo area
this will allow me to build one huge enclosure and still keep it below the window lines and in the street class...this is what i plan on doing next year....i wont do it this year because it bumps me up to adv stock in usaci
Posts: 69 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by bumpinbronco: i have a full size bronco and this rule applies to me
i have a rear seat that can be removed in less than one minute....only held by two pull pins
the back seat is designed to be user removable so you can utilize the full cargo area
this will allow me to build one huge enclosure and still keep it below the window lines and in the street class...this is what i plan on doing next year....i wont do it this year because it bumps me up to adv stock in usaci
but in that case..if i remember correctly....the seat removal is in the manual...
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