posted
Hello everybody. Since the Pandas came up, people in Germany (the whole world) break their brains how to find other cars where the backseats can be thrown out without tools to make the box bigger and place the amps right behind the doorjambs. Our Head Judges are becoming mad, because on every event they see cars like No Wall cars, but they want to go into street, because they have 2+2 seaters, and in the operating manuals of the cars, you can remove the backseats, or other seats (in vans) without any tool to make the room for loads bigger.
Some examples: Mercedes Vito van, has 7 seats, big side door, every seat can be removed without having one screw. If removed you can build a 1000 Liter subwoofer...
Volkswagen "Post" Polo. "Kind" of commercial vehicle. Available as normal car also. Seats can be removed for bigger space, without any tool. This car is used as "commercial" vehicle by the german "Post" (mail service) and CAN be ordered by private persons alos. Then WITHOUT rear seats.
Honda CRX, you in the US use them already ! I think there is no question about the legality of this car. You can remove seats (if they are there) build big boxes, you can LAY the amplifiers (in example two 4KW´s ) behind the front seats, even if they are over the string test line.
Now I come to a car, what you in the US have also, and what is a possible Street car. The Volkswagon rabbit (called Golf 1 here). Also the new Golf IV. DOnt know about the abilities of Golf 2 and 3, but I and IV have removeable seats also ! What will the US judges say, when a US competitor (or any competitor from the world) will use such a car? Normally it has to be judged in the same way as a Panda. (IMO)
Please think about that, or we have here in a few weeks more street cars what look like no walls as any other cars around in the lanes.
People are mad against the Panda Fleet and dont want to have disadvantages. So everybody studies the operating manual and come up with a new model of a car, and askes if he can do this. Some people COME to the events with finished cars, and make trouble in the lanes. Judges are helpless sometimes and the whole competition suffers, because they have to spent a lot of time to look at the car and control everything.
So please keep a clear mind and thinkg about my posting. Hopefully there will be a solution soon. Regardless WHAT is the decision, if yes or no, but if a judge can tell something, this will be appreciated. I hope that I wrote everything correct and not so much mistakes are inside my posting.
Thank you in advance !
Üüüühh!!! Michael (who prepares a CRX/Panda in Street B also, and will bring a KIND of Panda to the world finals, if everything works (help apprechiated) ...)
-------------------- www.sqpl.de I´m a Kraut,and I want it loud! Üüüühh!!!
posted
Yep, I second that... I hope that we can get an answer to this post..
-------------------- Cactus Sounds 4 x World Champ 3 x Euro Champ 4 X Swiss Champ 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 6226 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Honda CRX, you in the US use them already ! I think there is no question about the legality of this car. You can remove seats (if they are there) build big boxes, you can LAY the amplifiers (in example two 4KW´s ) behind the front seats, even if they are over the string test line. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Have yuo ever seen a crx.. and there huge boxes? They are actually very very small.. There are no back seats in a crx so there is no reason to remove them.. In my eyes you have to do nothing to this car to modify it so it should always stay perfectally legal
quote:Originally posted by TheBigOki: Mercedes Vito van, has 7 seats, big side door, every seat can be removed without having one screw. If removed you can build a 1000 Liter subwoofer...
The enclosure must be behind the rear-most side door, so this answers this vehicle. I don't have an answer for the others.
-------------------- Bobby Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA Posts: 3484 | From: Retirement Village in Branson Missouri. | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay, I've got a question about trunk cars. What if the back seat can be removed without tools but you have a trunk, does the box still have to be in the trunk or can it come out? I know of a car that the backseat can be removed withouth tools but it has a trunk.
I'm just curious, I don't normally do dB Drag but just thought of this when I saw this post. Thanks for the answer if anyone knows.
-------------------- Mike Roth
"Magic Mike"
"Haha guy, I feel so bad for you. It's like living your life with 1 ply toilet paper, and never knowing about 2 ply."- Bidnyk
"he who dies with the most posts, dies with the most toasters."- Bostonian Fats
"Good luck with that tight ass gap."- Navi
"Its genetics blame your dad not me."- Navi Posts: 7404 | From: Overland Park, Kansas | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheBigOki: [QB] Now I come to a car, what you in the US have also, and what is a possible Street car. The Volkswagon rabbit (called Golf 1 here). Also the new Golf IV. DOnt know about the abilities of Golf 2 and 3, but I and IV have removeable seats also !
I was wondering.....bigok....what years the rabbit/golf 1 came out.....freind has a 79 rabbit...that my 4kw would look nice in . And also I am sure you know it has to say in the owners manual that the rear seat is removable. To be legal.
quote: Have yuo ever seen a crx.. and there huge boxes? They are actually very very small.. There are no back seats in a crx so there is no reason to remove them.. In my eyes you have to do nothing to this car to modify it so it should always stay perfectally legal [/QB]
I wrote: Keep a clear mind and think about my posting !
If I made a mistake in spelling, I am sorry.
I never meant that the US CRX arent legal, and I have seen them since 5-6 years ago now? But have you ever seen something outside the US? Can it be that WE do have CRX with backseats??? WE HAVE ! But they are legal also, because this additional seats can be removed without tools. And if you see a CRX WITH seats, you understand HOW SMALL a CRX box CAN BE IF SEATS are in ! And no, there ARE Pandas with boxes so large than the whole space. Have YOU ever seen them? Or do you just believe what youve been told? The loudest Panda here has a small box what fits behind the rear seats, but the amps are at the seats place... But please dont have a fight with me regarding words and misunderstandings
Thanks Mr. Riley for clearing the van issue up.
Mr. wooferwagon, yes, would look nice And that is what we have to find out, if the manual of the car says that you can remove the seats to have more space. Then rabbits are legal also.
Üüüühh!!! Michael
-------------------- www.sqpl.de I´m a Kraut,and I want it loud! Üüüühh!!!
posted
All the vans must have the enclosure behind the side sliding or other doors.
CRX's in Europe came with backseats.
Here's the thing: From what I have read in other rules discussions that the rear seats must be designed to be removed by the end consumer as part of the normal use of the vehicle. Usually this means that there must be some sort of "rear seat removal" guide in the manual that came with the vehicle.
As far as the commercial vehicle goes: If the vehicle is designed as a cargo or commericial vehicle (even if the normal public can buy one) then it is not allowed in the street class.
Example: Chevy Astro Van here in the US. They have a commercial version that has no back seats and metal all through the back of it. This is not allowed in the street class, however the standard version (with removable backseats) with all of interior panels in place is allowed.
From the shows that I have been to, the street class is dominated by: 2 seat cars (EXP, CRX), SUVs, Vans (with the box in the back, behind the slidign door), and Small Extended cab Pickups. The standard trunk car and hatchback with rear seats are rarely seen in the Street classes (several in ministreet, none in street).
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
if the car has a back seat doesnt it have to STAY functional and can be folded down but must be able to put it in the normal seating position with the box/amps and all in place?
for example you can fold your seat down but CAN NOT put the box/amps/battery on top of it
-------------------- glenn smeby TEAM KRYPTONITE TEAM THUNDERFORCE-2003 Posts: 1655 | From: panama city ,fla. | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by smebysound: correct me if wrong but...
for example you can fold your seat down but CAN NOT put the box/amps/battery on top of it
Correct, this topic is referring to vehicles that have removable back seats. You may remove them for competition and it will be treated as if they didn't exist. Therefore the box could be placed in the former location of the rear seats.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by smebysound: correct me if wrong but...
for example you can fold your seat down but CAN NOT put the box/amps/battery on top of it
Correct, this topic is referring to vehicles that have removable back seats. You may remove them for competition and it will be treated as if they didn't exist. Therefore the box could be placed in the former location of the rear seats.
ok correct me if im wrong again but
the seats CAN be removed but must be able to be put back in WITHOUT moving the box/amps/battery
-------------------- glenn smeby TEAM KRYPTONITE TEAM THUNDERFORCE-2003 Posts: 1655 | From: panama city ,fla. | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
if the car has a back seat doesnt it have to STAY functional and can be folded down but must be able to put it in the normal seating position with the box/amps and all in place?
for example you can fold your seat down but CAN NOT put the box/amps/battery on top of it
I sec this idea
quote: Correct, this topic is referring to vehicles that have removable back seats. You may remove them for competition and it will be treated as if they didn't exist. Therefore the box could be placed in the former location of the rear seats.
this one I dont agrea with. But who am I to say what I agrea with or ont
-------------------- Cactus Sounds 4 x World Champ 3 x Euro Champ 4 X Swiss Champ 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 6226 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by smebysound: correct me if wrong but...
for example you can fold your seat down but CAN NOT put the box/amps/battery on top of it
Correct, this topic is referring to vehicles that have removable back seats. You may remove them for competition and it will be treated as if they didn't exist. Therefore the box could be placed in the former location of the rear seats.
ok correct me if im wrong again but
the seats CAN be removed but must be able to be put back in WITHOUT moving the box/amps/battery
That is not correct. And if that were a rule then you could not use a van in street because my van doesn't have enough room behind the farthest back row of seats to even mount a woofer cause it isn't deep enough to allow any room for the magnet!
--------------------
2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
2 TF One 10" + 1 American Bass 1000.1 + Odyssey 1750 Posts: 2965 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by smebysound: ok correct me if im wrong again but the seats CAN be removed but must be able to be put back in WITHOUT moving the box/amps/battery
wrong.
quote:3-8c Seats may be folded for competition, but may not be removed from the vehicle unless they were originally designed as a consumer removable component. Competitors who fold their seats must be able to demonstrate that the installation of the sound system does not interfere with the normal operation of the seats that were folded.
Additional Guidelines:
· Any removable seat that remains installed in the vehicle during competition will be treated identically to a permanently installed seat.
· If a removable seat has been removed from the vehicle prior to competition, then the officiating staff will treat the vehicle as if that seat doesn’t exist.
if the seat doesn't exist, then its not an issue as far as replacing the seat w/ equipment in the way.
Good Question though. The only bad ones are those not asked.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
the back seat of a certain vehicle has fold down rear seats. The seat cushion flips forward, and the seat back flips down. kind of like a jeep cherokee or grand cherokee back seat.
the seat cushion has a handle on the underside of the seat. this handle is visible when the seat bottom is flipped forward. In the owner's manual, it shows that the seat bottom is a user removable item to allow the user to gain more cargo space!!!!
In this situation, could the box sit on the top of the now folded rear seat backs? the rear seats are made useless by the "user removable" seat bottoms. You don;t have rear seats anymore, right?!!?!
I am curous to here some opinions about this setup. any judges out there?
oh yeah, this vehicle does exist....here in the US and in Europe.......any guesses?
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
i have a 2003 tiburon its a small 2 door sports car hatchback..... the rear seat has 2 buttons to remove the bottom.... no tools the back of the back seats each have a button that fold them down for more cargo room..... can i put a box on top of the rear seat??
if so....watch out
but other than all that i have an extreme 1 truck so why am i even asking
-------------------- glenn smeby TEAM KRYPTONITE TEAM THUNDERFORCE-2003 Posts: 1655 | From: panama city ,fla. | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
My mustang cobra had "2 buttons" under the seat cushion to remove it. Was it designed to be removeable for extra cargo space???? nope, but you could do it.
If you can't prove it with pictures and dialogue from an owner's manual, you are probably out of luck. that's how I am interpetting all of this.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
