posted
Please be aware the your windshield must have 4 sq ft of viewing area. This means obstructions such as dash build ups, and roof build downs that block the viewability, will be deducted from the measurement.
Below are the clear rules pertaining to this matter. Including the technique for verification of compliance.
It seems a competitor, or group of competitors are questioning my enforcement of this rule.
I would like to state, for the record, that I do not take into consideration "who" you are, or "what" team you are on, when it comes to enforcement of the rules. I will always do my best to enforce the rules equally, and fairly.
3-10a 3-10d Nothing must obstruct the contestant’s view through the windshield or side windows of the vehicle. (Window bracing and floor-to-roof bracing is acceptable provided their use does not violate any other applicable rules.)
Additional Guidelines:
· · For clarification purposes, contestants must be capable of demonstrating compliance with this rule on both the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle.
· · Build-downs that impede the contestant’s view will be considered an obstruction, even if the material being used is transparent in nature.
·
4-1 4-3 This rule (4-3) applies to Extreme Division competitors only. The OEM glass in the windshield and / or side windows to the vehicle may be replaced with another material as long as that material approximates the location and functionality of the original equipment. (i.e. Plexiglas, bullet-proof glass, or another fully transparent material.)
Additional Guidelines:
· · The “slant” of the replacing material must approximate that of the OEM glass.
· · The unobstructed viewing area for the front windshield must be 4 square feet (0.3716m^2) or larger. The unobstructed viewing area must be symmetrical in nature, with equivalent transparent areas on both the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle. Important: Only areas of the windshield that are not impeded in any way will be considered unobstructed. For example, if windshield braces or the dashboard blocks portions of the windshield, those portions will not count as part of the unobstructed viewing area.
Measurement Technique:
Unobstructed viewing areas will be identified by looking straight into the vehicle from in front of the vehicle on a plane that is parallel to the ground. The borders surrounding each unobstructed viewing area will be marked on the windshield with a “dry erase” marker or tape. Next, the officiating staff will determine the surface area contained within the boundary of each border by laying a ruler flat against the surface of the windshield and making measurements that are parallel to the windshield. The sum total of all unobstructed viewing areas must be 4 square feet (0.3716m^2) or larger.
-------------------- David "Quadzilla" McLean www.splmax.com Posts: 3222 | From: Jacksonville, FL USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4516 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by David McLean: I would like to state, for the record, that I do not take into consideration "who" you are, or "what" team you are on, when it comes to enforcement of the rules. I will always do my best to enforce the rules equally, and fairly.
DITTO!
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
ok let me get this straight, if lets say i have two 24 by 12 panels on my windshield on one side i have a dash it doesn't block the panels in any way but does come out about a foot from bottom of the windsheild and up about half a foot blocking half the one side of the windsheild. is this legal? this is done by looking into the cab not out right? I don't think so but want a clear ruling. the way i have alway read the rule is if you can't see the sub box then it not unobstructed and this count for anything in the cab including floor to ceiling braces and dash, ceiling, evan the gear shifter on top the dash, center console, anything really.
posted
and i would like to add a few thinks the the list for contestants AND judges · A minimum unobstructed area of at least 3 square feet (0.2787m^2) must be provided between the driver and passenger sides of the vehicle. This unobstructed area should be envisioned as an imaginary “window” that separates the two sides of the vehicle.
· At least 1.5 square feet (0.1394m^2) of the unobstructed area must be located above the horizontal plane that is established by the top of the dashboard.
also: 3-6 All reflective surfaces, with the exception of the windshield and dashboard, must be located a minimum of 1 microphone jig length (13 inches or 33.02cm) from the microphone capsule. (Intent: Reflective surfaces shall not interfere with the measurement equipment.)
and one that i think almost everyone has forgot about:
3-10c Center consoles must not exceed the height of the dashboard
· The dBDRA considers any roof build-down that extends to a point below the contestant’s eyebrows an obstruction.
yes..... extends to a point below the contestant’s eyebrows
-------------------- glenn smeby TEAM KRYPTONITE TEAM THUNDERFORCE-2003 Posts: 1655 | From: panama city ,fla. | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
So, even though Wayne and Sam and Brantly even you may have seen our van Dave. It has been voted legal for several years and hasent changed. It is now illegal. We do have a dash build up and you can still see our wall. Our windshield is 4.05sq ft. It is small. But has never been questioned by any judge ever. But now we should be illegal. Good, i cant wait to have it judged again.
P.S. Every rule has a loophole. and someone will push everyone. But as long as rules can be changed or re-enforced after so long of being overlooked we shouldnt have a problem.
TEAM BALDMAN CREATIONS
-------------------- Team Ohio Spl Team Baldman Creations Posts: 1243 | From: sidney oh | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Ok, this is slightly on, and slightly off topic. Mine was judged at MD and I came up about 49 sq inches short of the 4sq ft needed, due to a border I had painted on the plexi purely for looks. I only have to trim about 1/4 off of all the borders to fit in the guidelines. Anyone have any experience getting paint off of plexi? I spent a LOT of time trying to make sure the plexi looked good, I don't want to kill it by using something to strong that will mess up the plex.
Thanks!
BTW, thanks Jimmy and Bada Bing for letting me slide and not having to break out the razor blades and scrape it up that weekend!
-------------------- Mike Extreme Audio www.ExtremeAudio.org Extreme Van for Sale, complete or empty! Team JBL Team Fi Certified 179.3 dB 2005/06/07 dB Drag Extreme 3-4 World Champion 3 Time Deathmatch Participant 2004/05/06/07 IDBL World Record Holder 2004/2005 MECA World Record Holder 2006 USACi B&K WR SuperMod Ext.
Posts: 1344 | From: Mechanicsville, Va USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by john-hone: So, even though Wayne and Sam and Brantly even you may have seen our van Dave. It has been voted legal for several years and hasent changed. It is now illegal. We do have a dash build up and you can still see our wall. Our windshield is 4.05sq ft. It is small. But has never been questioned by any judge ever. But now we should be illegal. Good, i cant wait to have it judged again.
P.S. Every rule has a loophole. and someone will push everyone. But as long as rules can be changed or re-enforced after so long of being overlooked we shouldnt have a problem.
TEAM BALDMAN CREATIONS
Yes, I admit I may have overlooked this in the past, but as competitors push the limits, they subject themselves to closer scrutiny. This occured in Maryland. I will now enforce this rule to the letter at shows I judge.
-------------------- David "Quadzilla" McLean www.splmax.com Posts: 3222 | From: Jacksonville, FL USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by David McLean: Yes, I admit I may have overlooked this in the past, but as competitors push the limits, they subject themselves to closer scrutiny. This occured in Maryland. I will now enforce this rule to the letter at shows I judge.
as a judge , you should be judging cars to make sure they are legal.that what a judge does.
this is not pointed at you, just a general statement.
-------------------- Anthony Lloyd Full Moon Racing In need of a sponsor . Posts: 3228 | From: Loves Park , Ill | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by David McLean: Yes, I admit I may have overlooked this in the past, but as competitors push the limits, they subject themselves to closer scrutiny. This occured in Maryland. I will now enforce this rule to the letter at shows I judge.
as a judge , you should be judging cars to make sure they are legal.that what a judge does.
this is not pointed at you, just a general statement.
Yes, I totally agree, but it is overwhelmingly impossible to verify every vehicle is in compliance with every rule, with 1 judge, at a 3x event. We are not perfect.
I would expect that a competitor would take this rule into consideration when designing a vehicle. This rule is not grey at all.
-------------------- David "Quadzilla" McLean www.splmax.com Posts: 3222 | From: Jacksonville, FL USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I would like to point out the "symetrical" clause also. I have seen several vehicles that may or may not have 4 sq ft of viewable area from the seating posistion, but I have also see ALOT that block off large chunks of the windshield on one (with braces, builddowns,etc) but think they are legal becuase the drivers side is large enough to make 4 ft total. I feel the judges need to pay close attention to this, as well as all the other rules prohibiting ANY reflective surface (except dash and windshield) from being within 1 jig length of the mic capsule.
posted
Yes...it would be nice...if people went by the rules....and didnt go by gray area....but to me it seams like everyone try's to find gray area....some people want the rule book to be like the tax books....1,000's of pages long....and for a judge to go threw every care with the 1,000's pages of rules....be nice if people spent time on getting loud instead of finding loopholes.
posted
I was curious, if the rules to this point have been enforced to a lesser degree than completely how can one begin to enforce them? Was there a DB Drag judge meeting that took place to define the rules in question and give all a better understanding of what is expected?
Perhaps the format adopted in the NFL would be helpful. Meet with the judges after multi-point events and discuss issues and give grades.
Specify a number of event staff for multi-point events. I think that would help greatly, I have been to several shows that because of staffing things might have been missed.
Posts: 1674 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BIG YUKON T: I was curious, if the rules to this point have been enforced to a lesser degree than completely how can one begin to enforce them? Was there a DB Drag judge meeting that took place to define the rules in question and give all a better understanding of what is expected?
Perhaps the format adopted in the NFL would be helpful. Meet with the judges after multi-point events and discuss issues and give grades.
Specify a number of event staff for multi-point events. I think that would help greatly, I have been to several shows that because of staffing things might have been missed.
The judges discuss rules all the time over the Internet. We do our best. Remember dB Drag Racing is a young sport.
-------------------- David "Quadzilla" McLean www.splmax.com Posts: 3222 | From: Jacksonville, FL USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
This rule states that the competitors vehicle has to be looked at from the front of the vehicle on a plane that is symetrical to the ground... does this mean that you are looking in from a point where you are even with the windsheild? I have always taken this rule that way because if you are looking into the windsheild from the front, but looking down onto it then alot and I mean alot of vehicles would not have 4 ft2... Dave or Sam what is your input on this? How do you look into the vehicle from the front?
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 7854 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
a Happy world when all the judges are on the same page... Any chance of 2 judges at 3x's and less nopi events so more cars would go.. to many nopi's for 20 people to go to each 3x... Dave glad to see you make a stand all everyone wants is a fair and EQUAL playing field..and lets get back to " THE INTENT " of rules I'm sure intents didnt include body molds!
Posts: 367 | From: ALABAMA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Can anyone tell me how exactly this rule is judged? Do you look down onto the windsheild? Or what?
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 7854 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
In MD this past weekend, David was definitely down in a position to look straight into the van. He wasn't standing straight up and looking down. If you did that half the dash would be in the way. I think it actually said something in rules about looking "straight" or "level" into the front.
I think its good to get all this stuff out in the air now, vs. showing up at finals and getting popped. In my case, I simply had not paid enough attention to the rules and did something to make the van look better and took for granted it was within the rules. For mine, it a minor fix, but its much better to find out now, then to have to break out saws and such at the finals to keep from being dq'd.
It would be great to have more judges at 3x shows to seriously get into the vehicles. The only problem there is that I can't possibly see it being feasable with the small turnouts they are getting right now. I'm assuming they would probably take the time to look at something if a person was wondering about the legality about it.
I would much rather have all the "gray" area's and loopholes hashed out now, vs. later in the year....
-------------------- Mike Extreme Audio www.ExtremeAudio.org Extreme Van for Sale, complete or empty! Team JBL Team Fi Certified 179.3 dB 2005/06/07 dB Drag Extreme 3-4 World Champion 3 Time Deathmatch Participant 2004/05/06/07 IDBL World Record Holder 2004/2005 MECA World Record Holder 2006 USACi B&K WR SuperMod Ext.
Posts: 1344 | From: Mechanicsville, Va USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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