posted
OMGD,Im mad I have to rewrite my whole post cuz I supposedlly had a word longer than 30 charecters. I just Read philesters post.I saw he has a few views I realized a couple of weeks ago. I been competeing in NSPL off an on since 96. I had 2 Pioneer impp 12s & a jensen 100 watt amp.It was competetable.Then vegas10 Talked me into building my 1st wall. This is my first year really competeing in Dbdrag. About 3 weeks ago I realized I was competeing for nothing. I wont be invited to finals!! Ive also realized Thet fewer in attendace,Like Philester. OK I can deal with the 100 points needed But whAt about the top 15 competitors outa 20,000+ competitors. Ouch If you compete enuogh to get the points you shoud be invited. I can under stand the concept off too many brackets, And I understand the higher #s is more publicity. I compete in ss 5-8 (super street). My truck is a daily driver with an everyday system. Tuned to music aswell as SPL. In My class im competeing against ss vehicles with extreme systems!!! I have 6 15s 3 1,200 watt amps 7 batts. Im up agaisnt 20,000+ watts racks of amps 20 plus batteries ??? Does that sound like a system from the street? Not to me. My other greivence is sponsered v/s non sponsered. Now Im not dissing sponsorships .Most peeps that are have earned it Now I have a little bs Shop in a local fleamarket .Yes I get stuff tru a wholesale distributor. but I pay for it. I cant afford buying 8 4,000 watt amps. So why should I or any one else have to compete against some one had some given to them. Im not sure what this post will accomplish.But I hope itll make some changes. What about the kid straight from CC whos interested in spl competeing against a street car with 2 subs 8,000 watts in the low to mid 150s would you think hed get discouraged.
Personally Ive just about given up on db drag Trophies are nice but thats not my goal. Why should i compete?? I geuss what we need is more classes beginner amatuer pro sponsered. or atleast maybe more limits in the classes we have. I really like the concept of db drag.I like that dbrag Is well organized. The publicity of it. But dbrag doesnt need to get too big to forget the little fish.Or even the medium fish like me Im sorry Ive used a few peeps as examples No disrpect to you . You shoud know who you are. Ill appreciate all feed back and opinons and maybe we can fix some things
THANK YOU, Bobby R Bland JR
-------------------- 1998 NSPL 0-500 Outlaw National Title holder 151.5 2003 Whitley/2dudes van/suv 51-100 NC record holder of 159.9 outlaw 155.6lgl 1001-2000 157.8hrdcr 501 & up NSPL so far 2003 NSPL Pro 1001-2000 world title holder 154.1 Not bad for a daily driver Listen closely you can almost hear the records being broken! (here shortly) Posts: 255 | From: FAY NC | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
1) The issue of going to finals based upon the number of points - This has been tried in the past. What happened is an onslaught of shows popping up here, there, and everywhere (including non-audio venues) just so people could get points. Sounds good because of more events right? No. Attendance was lower, no trophies or prizes whatsoever were given, and at times rumor has it that points were given to people not at the show. That system just didn't work.
2) Pro v. Amateur v. Sponsored v. whatever: I touched on this in the previous post and someone said it wasn't related to the topic. My point in that post was more that never is everybody happy, regardless of how the classes are structured. Pro v. Amateur has also been tried previously. It also does not work. It's too hard to police. I could easily attend an event that was divided this way and compete amateur (assuming it's not in the midwest) when by all means I should be competing as a pro.
3) If you don't want to compete against the "big dogs" you do have the freedom to change classes. I know this may seem harsh, but complaining about X class isn't fair and Y class doesn't suit me either is what many have done before and many will do after. This set of rules and divisions seems to be working very well, although there is always room for improvement.
Stick around when rules for 04 are being discussed and put in your input at that time and as I have said before, make a nice, professional post with data to back up the point you are making and go from there.
-------------------- Yep, I'm back. Kicked some bad "habits" and ready to resume the life I want to lead!
XXXXX: tara.being = /walk.into.the (bedroom) look at floor (while) candles = lite/room make suprise {youneverseenitcoming} XXXXX : output = smile{ wondering what the hell is going on } XXXXX : input * ( roses. around (room) ) make_suprise better if [ tara starts crying] then wipe tears show print " do it from the heart" then ( hold user = tara) print " everything is going to be ok" print " this is how a queen is supposed to be treated" Posts: 3616 | From: Overseeing the Kingdom | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey DailyDriven I sent you a PM on here. check it out. and I have to agree with you
-------------------- In loving memory of my father, Doff Harvey April 22,2005
Zapco 1000.4 cadence a7 Kicker SS 6.5 midbass Kicker SS 5.25s Zapco 10's
2x World Champion | 9x State Champion | 14x State Record Holder | 2005 Meca Hall of Fame Member | 2005 Meca Team Hall of Fame Member Posts: 20723 | From: Princeton,WV | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bobby, I agree with you whole heartedly. Now you see why I no longer do dB Drag. As good of a concept as it could be, it is based around who can spend the most money, even in the Street class.
The reason that I do NSPL and some MECA is because the classes are formatted better, and the Iraggi formula is probably the best format that has been thought of.
Just my views on the issue. I still enjoy watching the dB Drag events in the area, they prove to be exciting at time, but there is no way I would compete.
Just my views, maybe something will be changed in 2004.
-Dustin Fleig
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
..... and the Iraggi formula is probably the best format that has been thought of.
Ya, it puts a level playing field out there, taking the cone area and the wattage is pretty cool.
Im no way dissing other organizations by my comments above.
-------------------- In loving memory of my father, Doff Harvey April 22,2005
Zapco 1000.4 cadence a7 Kicker SS 6.5 midbass Kicker SS 5.25s Zapco 10's
2x World Champion | 9x State Champion | 14x State Record Holder | 2005 Meca Hall of Fame Member | 2005 Meca Team Hall of Fame Member Posts: 20723 | From: Princeton,WV | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
DbDrag is the top spl competition out there. It has the the hardest working competitors, most extreme systems, and loudest vehicles. It pains me when people complain that the DbDrag is out of their reach. If going to finals is the only thing that is important to you then you are missing the whole point of competing. If you can't strive to do the best with what you have and go to a show and have a good time then by-all-means go compete somewhere else.
As for the money issue, I can understand that it may aplly to the SS and EX classes, but it in no way applies to street. If you think it does than you are just not willing to put the time and effort in that truly makes a champion. Case in point, look at the results from the recent Ohio 2X. Final round of Street A was Mike Stiers vs. Mike Skaritka. If you looked purely at their specs on paper it would seem that Mike Skaritka had the edge with 2 L&'s, 2 D3's, and a crx, and I know for a fact that he has spent a huge amount of time working on and testing his car this year. But, who one, the guy with a two-door neon, 2 D2's, and 2 round ABass subs. And why? Because he worked even harder. There is no way Mike Stiers had more than $1500 in his car, $400 a piece for used D2's still leaves $700 for subs.
Money does not matter. Time, hard work, and dedication are the most important in DbDrag. No matter what the classes are if you don't put the effort in you will not win. Until you have put in the time for an entire season building, rebuilding, testing, driving competing, and not sleeping then shut your mouth.
-------------------- Art's Sound Chamber World's Loudest SS Vehicle World's Loudest NW Vehicle World's Loudest Port Wars Vehicle 63 Mafia
-------------------- Yep, I'm back. Kicked some bad "habits" and ready to resume the life I want to lead!
XXXXX: tara.being = /walk.into.the (bedroom) look at floor (while) candles = lite/room make suprise {youneverseenitcoming} XXXXX : output = smile{ wondering what the hell is going on } XXXXX : input * ( roses. around (room) ) make_suprise better if [ tara starts crying] then wipe tears show print " do it from the heart" then ( hold user = tara) print " everything is going to be ok" print " this is how a queen is supposed to be treated" Posts: 3616 | From: Overseeing the Kingdom | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
This post is similar to someone who races a "Saturday night special" complaining to NASCAR that he can't qualify for the Daytona 500 cause his car will only do 150 mph. Finals is meant for the "best of the best" and if you want to make finals merely on the basis of attending a lot of shows then try USACi. If you look at some of the results from dBDRag Finals (pre-2001) and from USACi finals you will see that there are competitors that have no chance of winning that go there and compete and lose by over 10dB. That is what the point based system did. You didn't have to be that loud, and you could finish 4th or worst at every show you went to and merely by attending a lot of shows you were invited to finals, even though a louder, possibly more deserving (on basis of being more competitive) competitor was left out as they didn't have a lot of shows in their area.
The current system was setup so that competitors have to attend several shows to get their 100 points (can't sit at home all year long) and they had to be one of the 15 loudest in their class. Shouldn't the loudest people be allowed to go to finals since this is what the sport is all about, being loud? This makes for great competition at finals, with 1st-10th place all having a shot at winning. Take the Street 1-2 class from last year. The scores from finals for the top 8 were from 156.0 - 153.5, 2.5 dB for 8 people is a really close race. Several positions were decided by less than 0.5 dB.
Under the points only system, someone who had a system completely purchased from Wal-Mart, in pre-fab boxes if they lived in a high points area (FL, CA, Southern MO) where there are usually 2 shows a weekend throughout the summer could very well get in the top 200 in points. Now should this person be allowed to go to finals, even though they have not worked on their vehicle, have not spent that extra week to get a 0.2 dB gain, over someone who has but simply did not have enough shows in their area?
The venue for Finals is limited, only roughly 200 competitors can fit and still have room for spectators and manufacturers booths (where the real money from finals comes from). Also, with the format of dBDrag where everyone in the top 8 runs multiple times with qualifying and eliminations, the time involved to run much more than 200 cars would be prohibitive for a weekend event. USACi and other organizations can do that as the competitors only run once (well twice back to back) and there is no head to head eliminations.
I agree that this is expensive, and it is not easy to be competitive in dBDrag with a "normal" type system. I agree with Matt Cole that there should be more Street Classes as that is where the competitors are. From the local shows I have been to, there are several Mini-Street competitors that I am sure would love to have a shot at finals in one of the smaller, less expensive classes. dBDrag has made great changes over the 4 years that I have been involved with it. If you think the current rules are unfair, how about the classes from 1999.
AMA 1-2 AMA 3-4 AMA 5-8 AMA 9+ 0-5000 watts AMA 9+ 5001-10000 watts AMA 9+ 10000+ watts
Pro 0-5000 watts Pro 5001-10000 watts Pro 10001+ watts
No rules on batteries amplifiers, and modifications to the interior. Floor build ups, door build outs and walls were allowed in all classes. At my first show, with a modest street system (1 12, 300 watt amp) I lost by 20dB to the eventual 2nd place at world finals in my class. Also 1999 Finals (top points invited, no basis on score), the "closest" margin between 1st and 8th place was over 7 dB, with several classes having 8th place almost a full 10 dB behind the winner.
dBDrag has come a long way since then, and I think it has all been for the best. It is by no means perfect, but getting better every year.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
Say for someone that has just spent $800 on a new system and wants to try it out.. goes up against a world finalist street competitor.. looses by 10 db's.. are they going to want to come back and try again??
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
obviously to make it to finals, you have to spend lots of time and money, there is no doubt about that.. but im talking about local dbdrags to get more people involved..
ministreet is a good idea.. too bad not many places support it..
but these competitors just starting off could be the next world champions.. but then again if they are discouraged by getting killed.. then who knows.. i dunno its just my opinion..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Chris B: obviously to make it to finals, you have to spend lots of time and money, there is no doubt about that.. but im talking about local dbdrags to get more people involved..
ministreet is a good idea.. too bad not many places support it..
but these competitors just starting off could be the next world champions.. but then again if they are discouraged by getting killed.. then who knows.. i dunno its just my opinion..
Maybe we should make ministreet a required class across the country. I know it is popular here in the Midwest where routinely there are 30+ cars at a local event, but in some areas where there are only an average of 10-15 people at an event, I don't know that it is worth the event promoters time to have a class for only 1-2 people who are not looking to attend finals and may not compete again.
Part of what made the ministreet division popular last year in the Midwest was that we had 3 world finals level competitors in the Street 1-2 class. Routinely at a local 1X event you had 3 of the top 15 loudest in the world. Of those 3, one did not attend finals, and the other 2 placed 6th and 7th at finals. That sparks a lot of interest for ministreet when other competitors see people with a similar system doing good numbers. I also believe that a lot of ministreet competitors work hard on their systems to get louder and be more like the national guys. Again I am just speaking for the Midwest (particularly MO/KS/OK area) but I think that could work across the country.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
This sport honestly can't be sugar coated. It's not for everyone. It takes time, experience, knowledge, equipment and dedication. No matter how the classes are changed or how many are added, someone is going to be upset. The bar cannot be lowered or you will dilute this sport. When I started in this sport/hobby I used to get stomped on. I slaved in the garage at every free momment I had. I asked questions on the forum, at shows and even sent emails to people that may be willing to help. Some offered tidbits of info here and there and others turned me away. Nothing was ever handed to me but I wasn't discouraged. As I slowly became louder I became friends with a great group of guys here in Columbus. I owe a ton to them for their long hours, experience in the lanes etc. Most of all I value their frienship. I tried Whitlee and did very well with little to no challenge and that turned me away. That's why I enjoy DB Drags, their is always someone building something louder than what you have....and the more time you spend on the forum, the louder they are getting. So, I will end it there as I have work to do.
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2008 US.Top Cert.Street C 158.4 2008 25-48 No-wall NSPL World Champion,World Record 159.0 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag Street A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US. record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4136 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2008 US.Top Cert.Street C 158.4 2008 25-48 No-wall NSPL World Champion,World Record 159.0 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag Street A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US. record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4136 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
ok.. I totally understand where you're coming from... but the simple fact is this... like it has been said before... finals is for THE BEST OF THE BEST !! you do not see someone with Chris Farley's physique at the olympics in the 100M dash do you? WHY ??? because only the BEST make it there. this is not an easy sport... but if you BUY SMART, you can spend a little money, and potentially get a GREAT outcome...
2-3 years ago, my 2nd season competing.. i was 1 person away from getting an invitation... I spent 700 on 2 1000 watt amps ( used from a former world record holder who was selling them) and 2 Brand X 15s for under $300
aside from some sound deadener ( which can be bought affordably.. IF you do you homework, and research).. I spent under $1000 !!! and i was # 18 or so in the world ! I drove all over texas ( when we had LOTS of shows) and would have called in favors to just make it to finals.. even though i knew i wouldn't have qualified top 8.....
but the moral of the story is this... finals is the best of the best.. is it fair to someone else, who as put in all the miles travelling, and all those expenses.. spent the money on the system... to get beaten by someone who has a WAAAY lower score, but just more points? me personally.. i don't think so...
I'd rather go to finals and lose to the best of the best, than beat someone who " just had enough points"...
i know it isn't fair... but life isn't fair..
why do you think you don't see every tom **** and harry who has seen Fast and the Furious ( who has a "riced out" import) on the NOPI Drag circuit??? cause they aren't FAST !
i've been in your shoes... and I've been on teh other side ( close to getting an invite for being LOUD and having the POINTS)... and believe me... you CAN get loud, and NOT spend a ton of money....
street is VERY VERY compeitive... it's more about box design than raw power... street is THE CHEAPEST class for finals.....
look at it that way..
-------------------- Gabriel "The SPL Jester" Ramirez
Team Gates Kicker Car Stereo Eastern Audio SPL2K Powermaster Motorsports Posts: 3737 | From: San Antonio,TEXAS !!!! | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
Do you think it's "unfair" that only the BEST sports competitors of each country can take part at the olympic games.
My god, it's the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, it's no kindergarten dB-Drag-Racing-Event.
And we all know whole LIFE IS UNFAIR..
IF you want to have a streeable car - compete in the street classes!
Üüüühh!!! Matze
P.S.: But the idea of more street classes isn't that bad! A 1 12" Woofer class with half the equipment allowed which is allowed in Street A at the moment would be great !!!
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: I agree that this is expensive, and it is not easy to be competitive in dBDrag with a "normal" type system. I agree with Matt Cole that there should be more Street Classes as that is where the competitors are. From the local shows I have been to, there are several Mini-Street competitors that I am sure would love to have a shot at finals in one of the smaller, less expensive classes.
Thats where I agree with you fully and totally. dB Drag needs the addition of a Consumer Street Class...limiting the price of the woofer to about 250 (similar to NSPL) to 300 dollars.
Or the addition of a Street 1...one woofer, one amp. That'd own. There are so many ideas the could improove the hell out of dB Drag. Crazy 8s is also a very innovative idea.
Point being, dB Drag probably is the best organization to view, but compete in...no thanks.
Just my opinions, nothing more.
-Dustin Fleig
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)