Im writting this in concearn of where this sport is going. First concearn is our class's and how they are made up. At the upper levels we are fine but at the lower levels we need to work out something to allow more people to beable to join. Ive seen it a ton of times where A guy excited to compete in DBDRAGS will show up with a 15 inch woofer and be forced into a class where atleast 8 amps and many batteries in competive. Allot of people are swayed from competing again when you show up and get smashed by a guy with almost 16thousand watts. Next concern is alternators. Ok all the amps that we use to be competive in this sport in street draw atleast 180 amps. I SAID ATLEAST. Now even the most modest amps like a 1000 watt amp will draw a good 120 amps. I dont to many cars that can supply any of this current. Well we want to acctualy street play our music and we get bumped up to a class where again 8 amps, 15 inch woofers, and making your car undriveable anymore exsists. Just thought we should do something about this aternator situation and the other problems with this hudge JUMP from STREET to SUPER street. Thank you for you time. I will elaborate more if you want.
[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: kamiraa ]
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posted
There have been many posts concerning next years rules and classes. Wayne has also made several replies to these posts as well as made comments in the chat room.
There will be additional beginner classes for the newbie. Wayne has said so himself.
I agree with you, putting a new guy in SS cause he/she has a 15" isn't right. Hopefully with these new beginner classes, that will take care of such problems.
You are more than welcome to email myself with ideas and suggestions. I look forward to hearing your ideas.
posted
steve i will do . I have worked out a ton of ideas. I think the alternator thing of an attempt to make a street car "STREET" listenable by putting a charging system that will supply that one amp should be allowed and not resulting in a bump to a crazy class. I mean a street car should be created to listen to music. Not BRAPPPPPPPP once a week and then the stereo isnt used other then that.
-------------------- TEAM EXCEL AUDIO - My real team
Im sick of listing Equipment. Crx is loud = )
Proud Member of D.B. Audio Offical Editor of Team B.E.E.R = IGGSTER
FOUNDER OF TEAM B.E.E.R - 75 members and growing!!! Kamiraa, Scott Addison(CRXSLUTnNE), quadbass, Brian46012 ,TeamDroppinHZLance, jaggy ,Chris Norris, ianrulz123, iansgirlie, NDMstang65, aphile7, Twan, Sir_Stickybuds, Mike Depace, jsm_42, [meph], BassFreak, Killi, powndnrf, LouisianaSPL, Fixxxer, Big_Ed, rocket_ride76, loudest_around, BMFNeon, SpacePeon, shortyz, Thumppin, SuperJohn, JEF, billbies, keda01ptcruiser, IceWaLL, Bassmecha, BigOki, ImageDyanmicTech, bigbassman, excelaudio, Rays Mom (just dont tell her), BadGT, Perfect Nissan, The Dude, toffeechips, JustCuz, 1loud99stang,AudioStylz2000, Sean D, 96_ImPaLa_Ss, Drunk Irish Bastard, ShaftSPL, Mouse Trap, BigWalrus, Iceman91, merlin12volt, HCCAfan, LoRanger, stemyluv69, *mikemex*, khstrom, Blunt, pure_canadian_bass, Scott Baxter, natedog101, sks, Dave Goss, Timmyboy, memphis2003, Booming_Creation, nomadbuc, d14marquis, audiobahn_guy, S10xtreme160s, Bass Freak, bryan666999, team nutts, and splprincess2002
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posted
I can tell you the entry level classes will receive the largest facelift. I like Steve, am willing to hear ideas, and relay them to Wayne and the other judges.
posted
i know cone area is already used in idbl thuis probably wont fly for DB drag, but i think that or something similar should be used for the beginner type classes. I knmow lots of people who might not know a lot about audio but just want to have a cool stereo, so they but the biggest or most woofers for the cheapest $$ they can. Thus someone who really is a true beginner might have multiple(4+)subs, albeit they might have a legacy (or whatever) decal on them. but if they decided to compete, they're in a SS class right away....entry level classes need to be built upon the fact that entry level people dont build these systems for DB Drag....they build what they think is cool for their car and for themselves. But then they wanna have a little fun at the local DB Drag, and is it easier to have a little fun (when you've got 6 legacy 10's and a pyramid amp) against a car that is at least somewhat close to what you have, not somone who has spent weeks putting more wood in their car than it has metal...
-------------------- Luke Fidler Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
1. Cone Area in class's should be limited but more spaced classes.
2. Street set the computer up for a deathmatch and run it for 15 seconds and average
3. HO Alts in all class's - because high output amps need a charging system
4. Commerial limitations put back on (its street, ups trucks is not street)
5. You can not gain your cert score from a show that you sponsor. Or the score needs to be backed up at another location to be considered record.
6. For street two channel amps ( YES I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING TO GET AROUND THIS SITUATION, JUST BRIDGE THE TWO CHANNELS INSIDE THE AMP AND REMOVE THE EXTRA TERMINALS) someone any ideas on this?
7. i devised a new way to taking spl. basically you slide it in your door near the end where we run string threw to check for wall. It moves forward a few inches from there and in the center of the front seat. This is where the mic should be aligned with a stand. TAKE SPL WHERE IT SHOULD BE ! AT THE EARS OR IN THE REGION, WHO CARES ABOUT DASHES. . .
8. hatchbacks should be serate from street cars. I have a hb but its an advantage in steet . . .
9. Certain bat caps allowed in all class's. It is a battery.
10. Retail cap on woofers and amps in street cap. I mean certain limit cannot be exceed'd. Such as 5000 amps and 1500 woofers are surly not street. lets say 1000 for amps. and 500 appiece for woofers.
11. more when i wake up im exhausted. ACctualy im going keep these in email from now on. Thanks for your time gentlemen.
-------------------- TEAM EXCEL AUDIO - My real team
Im sick of listing Equipment. Crx is loud = )
Proud Member of D.B. Audio Offical Editor of Team B.E.E.R = IGGSTER
FOUNDER OF TEAM B.E.E.R - 75 members and growing!!! Kamiraa, Scott Addison(CRXSLUTnNE), quadbass, Brian46012 ,TeamDroppinHZLance, jaggy ,Chris Norris, ianrulz123, iansgirlie, NDMstang65, aphile7, Twan, Sir_Stickybuds, Mike Depace, jsm_42, [meph], BassFreak, Killi, powndnrf, LouisianaSPL, Fixxxer, Big_Ed, rocket_ride76, loudest_around, BMFNeon, SpacePeon, shortyz, Thumppin, SuperJohn, JEF, billbies, keda01ptcruiser, IceWaLL, Bassmecha, BigOki, ImageDyanmicTech, bigbassman, excelaudio, Rays Mom (just dont tell her), BadGT, Perfect Nissan, The Dude, toffeechips, JustCuz, 1loud99stang,AudioStylz2000, Sean D, 96_ImPaLa_Ss, Drunk Irish Bastard, ShaftSPL, Mouse Trap, BigWalrus, Iceman91, merlin12volt, HCCAfan, LoRanger, stemyluv69, *mikemex*, khstrom, Blunt, pure_canadian_bass, Scott Baxter, natedog101, sks, Dave Goss, Timmyboy, memphis2003, Booming_Creation, nomadbuc, d14marquis, audiobahn_guy, S10xtreme160s, Bass Freak, bryan666999, team nutts, and splprincess2002
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Posts: 1446 | From: chicago, il, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 1. Cone Area in class's should be limited but more spaced classes.
I think it would be advantageous to see some of your proposed classes. For example, how you would break it down. Also how many 'spaced' classes would you want? I don't see Street gaining any number of classes over 2 at all. I for instance would like to see a Street and Pro Street class. Pro Street obviously involving the 'Pros' and previous competitors and Street involving the locals. Allow the retailer to set rules and regulations that comply to the locals systems. Don't create set rule for Street division, rather leave them flexible. The Street Division would not be for point accural but the Pro Street would just like it has been this year.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 2. Street set the computer up for a deathmatch and run it for 15 seconds and average
This is a good idea, tests the true street beat system, not a one note wonder.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 3. HO Alts in all class's - because high output amps need a charging system
Perhaps I am not familiar with a lot of street beaters but I do not know a single one that has a HO alternator. Perhaps the Pro Street Division could have a HO alternator rule but how crazy would some people get? I mean you'd have guys putting 300 amp alternators on their caravans to compete in Pro Street. Not my idea of a Pro Street class. The idea of this class is to keep costs down or everyone would just go SS...HO alts are not exactly cheap.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 4. Commerial limitations put back on (its street, ups trucks is not street)
Obviously.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 5. You can not gain your cert score from a show that you sponsor. Or the score needs to be backed up at another location to be considered record.
Shouldn't even have to mention but for some people it needs to be in there.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 6. For street two channel amps ( YES I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING TO GET AROUND THIS SITUATION, JUST BRIDGE THE TWO CHANNELS INSIDE THE AMP AND REMOVE THE EXTRA TERMINALS) someone any ideas on this?
If a 'Street' competitor in either the Pro or Street division has enough knowledge and time to perform this, they definitely should be in SS or Extreme. And if caught trying such an act, disqualification for a one year minimum. Also it is very difficult to my knowledge to make the extra terminals 'disappear' as they are attached to the board in most cases. However it is possible if enough knowledge and time allows.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 7. i devised a new way to taking spl. basically you slide it in your door near the end where we run string threw to check for wall. It moves forward a few inches from there and in the center of the front seat. This is where the mic should be aligned with a stand. TAKE SPL WHERE IT SHOULD BE ! AT THE EARS OR IN THE REGION, WHO CARES ABOUT DASHES. . .
This location will vary DRASTICALLY from car to car, the dash measurement is a consistent location in every vehicle each time through the lanes. It would be very tough to make sure the mic was positioned in the exact same spot each time through the lanes. I like the dash position for ease and consistency.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 8. hatchbacks should be serate from street cars. I have a hb but its an advantage in steet . . .
So you want to penalize a person for having a hatchback. I'm not seeing it. Street class will consist of locals vying for the towns loudest, nobody cares about what kinda car you have. Its street beat, loudest wins. In Pro Street a hatchback would just be an advantage as it was this year vs. some vehicles. On the subject of vehicles, I think caravans and all types of vans should have to keep all seats inside the vehicle and if they fold, must remain fully functional(meaning they can fold back up with out moving the enclosure. Also Cargo vans should be disallowed from both Pro Street and Street. Sliding side door would be a point as to where the enclosure cannot move in front of.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 9. Certain bat caps allowed in all class's. It is a battery.
Just as you said about the 2 channel amplifiers and somebody taking one apart. It would be very difficult to govern the use of batcaps as labels can be changed or entire casings can be switched. I see outlaw bat caps in both Street and Pro Street. Not needed.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 10. Retail cap on woofers and amps in street cap. I mean certain limit cannot be exceed'd. Such as 5000 amps and 1500 woofers are surly not street. lets say 1000 for amps. and 500 appiece for woofers.
This is not a good idea. This will be exploited on both sides as far as amplifers and subwoofers go. I know this dude in Ohio who said he would exploit it with his subs and I'm sure somebody can make a nice(price) cheater amp. Also this prevents amplifiers such as BD1500s, Power1000s, Zapco 6.0s, many US AMPS. I know of several stores who sell products such as the ones mentioned above. This would cause a street beater to move up into SS because of his amp cost. I see keep out the cost restrictions all together.
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: 11. more when i wake up im exhausted. ACctualy im going keep these in email from now on. Thanks for your time gentlemen.
posted
This location will vary DRASTICALLY from car to car, the dash measurement is a consistent location in every vehicle each time through the lanes. It would be very tough to make sure the mic was positioned in the exact same spot each time through the lanes. I like the dash position for ease and consistency.
accutaly its not bad. Ive tried it on a few cars already and it keeps pretty accurate. Some people have long dashs some people have short dashes and the angle of the slope of glass is always different. By taking near the end of the window and moving forward a few inches is pretty much equal in most cars. Yes it wont be perfect but either is the dash one. And also Who cares if its loud at the passenger glass. It should be at the driver seats ear. And it would make next season more intresting. People have finnaly found out good box's that work. Allot of copying will go on. I say we switch it around and make people rebuilt. WE will result in different designs and make this season more intresting. STARTING FROM SCRACH!
ok now back to the retail thing. Josh and anyone reading. Do you think it is right for a manufacter to make a 5000 dollar amp before finals for the main purpose of street and set a HUDGEEE COST on it. 5000 dollars for a street compeitor to beable to win. Seems like insane. How about 1500 dollars woofers?
Il leave you with this : 2 woofers 1500 appiece = 3000 one amp = 5000 wiring = 200 battery = 100 head unit = 300
first off some things look out of place in that list and third off who has close to 9 thousand dollars to be competive in a novice class????? Im keeping these in emails from now on. Thanks again
-------------------- TEAM EXCEL AUDIO - My real team
Im sick of listing Equipment. Crx is loud = )
Proud Member of D.B. Audio Offical Editor of Team B.E.E.R = IGGSTER
FOUNDER OF TEAM B.E.E.R - 75 members and growing!!! Kamiraa, Scott Addison(CRXSLUTnNE), quadbass, Brian46012 ,TeamDroppinHZLance, jaggy ,Chris Norris, ianrulz123, iansgirlie, NDMstang65, aphile7, Twan, Sir_Stickybuds, Mike Depace, jsm_42, [meph], BassFreak, Killi, powndnrf, LouisianaSPL, Fixxxer, Big_Ed, rocket_ride76, loudest_around, BMFNeon, SpacePeon, shortyz, Thumppin, SuperJohn, JEF, billbies, keda01ptcruiser, IceWaLL, Bassmecha, BigOki, ImageDyanmicTech, bigbassman, excelaudio, Rays Mom (just dont tell her), BadGT, Perfect Nissan, The Dude, toffeechips, JustCuz, 1loud99stang,AudioStylz2000, Sean D, 96_ImPaLa_Ss, Drunk Irish Bastard, ShaftSPL, Mouse Trap, BigWalrus, Iceman91, merlin12volt, HCCAfan, LoRanger, stemyluv69, *mikemex*, khstrom, Blunt, pure_canadian_bass, Scott Baxter, natedog101, sks, Dave Goss, Timmyboy, memphis2003, Booming_Creation, nomadbuc, d14marquis, audiobahn_guy, S10xtreme160s, Bass Freak, bryan666999, team nutts, and splprincess2002
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Posts: 1446 | From: chicago, il, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: ok now back to the retail thing. Josh and anyone reading. Do you think it is right for a manufacter to make a 5000 dollar amp before finals for the main purpose of street and set a HUDGEEE COST on it. 5000 dollars for a street compeitor to beable to win. Seems like insane. How about 1500 dollars woofers?
Il leave you with this : 2 woofers 1500 appiece = 3000 one amp = 5000 wiring = 200 battery = 100 head unit = 300
first off some things look out of place in that list and third off who has close to 9 thousand dollars to be competive in a novice class????? Im keeping these in emails from now on. Thanks again
As long as you have the class towards finals, somebody, somewhere will figure out a way to bend the rules, and make it all about the money. While the street class was designed for novices, it's always been controled by the pro's.
I think one of the major problems lies in the labeling of who's a novice competitor. In my mind, someone who is willing to devote the time and money to go to finals is NOT a novice. Anyone who can take two 12's and 1 amp and bust 150 is not a novice! When you have the so called novice class busting out numbers that the pro classes where hitting their max at just a few years ago, then something signals that this is not a novice friendly class.
As solid as the dBDRA is, it hasn't and will never be able to establish a nationwide class that serves the novice. Let's look at this example, I am a future street 1-2 competitor this year. I cannot personally build a competitive system, as I have no access to tools, work space or testing equipmentl. Yet for a very resonable price, I will be having a very well known professional building my system soon.
Not everyone is as advantaged as I, or the dozens of other competitors are in the midwest. We have several world class shops and competitors that know exactly how to get loud. Someone in a area such as South Dakota or another area with less competition is automatically put as a disadvantage just b/c of where they live. Is that right? Definitely not!
So the response is simple in nature, but complex in implementation. Give the fate of the novice competitor back to the people who know the local novice competitor. This would be the local retailer! Nobody knows the local customer better than their local shop. And not every region has the same type of average consumer. I say that we should move ahead with classes exactly the way they are. Allow those who want to not tear up their car, but still want a world trophy, a chance to continue to amaze people with what 2 12's (or 4 12's) and 1 or 2 amps can do. And leave the local novice to the people who serve and make a living off the local guy.
-------------------- Quietest member of Broken Silence Competition Club
Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: i meant email to judges. Not the all mightly josh . . . . .
Well you just as well add me to your email list. I talk to a few judges on a daily basis, one of which that has a lot to do with the new rules. Just saying I could probably offer some valuable input before sending off to the judges.
Well you just as well add me to your email list. I talk to a few judges on a daily basis, one of which that has a lot to do with the new rules. Just saying I could probably offer some valuable input before sending off to the judges.
Valuable
-------------------- The Peoples Mod/Champ
2006 Bass Race World Finals 130-139.9 Champion Using Crunch Sub Woofers! 2007 Bass Race Indy Regionals 130-139.9 3rd Place
If you ain't down with the Iggster and his sounds, I got 2 words for ya: Bass Race
quote:Originally posted by kamiraa: [QB]2. Street set the computer up for a deathmatch and run it for 15 seconds and average
QB]
that, right there, is the one thing that would help street the most. that takes out the super power amps that can only do one burst. for example....lets break that up into 3 time groups, 5 seconds each....to make my math easier cause i'm bad at it. Competitor A has a high current, high power amp than nobody without a gold doubloon for a toe can afford. first 5 seconds, full power = 155DB second 5 seconds, losing power fast = 153db last 5 seconds, juice is dranined, amp straining to stay on = 149DB the score for the run is 152.3 doing a burp he woulda got a 155. Competitor B has a rather big amp, but not a burp only beast like competitor A has. first 5 seconds, full power = 153.5 second 5 seconds, hardlyt losing at all = 153DB last 5 seconds, still not a lot of power drain = 152.5DB score for the round = 153
so the guy with the smaller, more effecient amp wins. of course that wont always happen, but it'll create parity. I think it should be longer, 20-30 seconds myself. It'll also create strategy..someone with a big current hog will have to decide whether balsing a big score for the first few seconds can support a weak score in the last seconds, or if he needs to crank it back and make the power last....
Enduro format is a great idea! we've all seen cars that can do 153 for 2 seconds, but couldnt do over 150 if they hadda hold it there.....and cars that might peak at 150, but could do it for days.
-------------------- Luke Fidler
Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
next reason we should allow HO Alternators because even modest amps draw a ton of currect in street. Most stock altnerators cant keep up esspcially if your running mids and highs to make them as loud as your bass. Maybe not allot HUDGE ALTS like 300 but maybe cap it to like 150 or so. this could be checked with a fluke . It would make for good times and still keep those hudge big boys out of the running like 4000 watt amps. . . .
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Im sick of listing Equipment. Crx is loud = )
Proud Member of D.B. Audio Offical Editor of Team B.E.E.R = IGGSTER
FOUNDER OF TEAM B.E.E.R - 75 members and growing!!! Kamiraa, Scott Addison(CRXSLUTnNE), quadbass, Brian46012 ,TeamDroppinHZLance, jaggy ,Chris Norris, ianrulz123, iansgirlie, NDMstang65, aphile7, Twan, Sir_Stickybuds, Mike Depace, jsm_42, [meph], BassFreak, Killi, powndnrf, LouisianaSPL, Fixxxer, Big_Ed, rocket_ride76, loudest_around, BMFNeon, SpacePeon, shortyz, Thumppin, SuperJohn, JEF, billbies, keda01ptcruiser, IceWaLL, Bassmecha, BigOki, ImageDyanmicTech, bigbassman, excelaudio, Rays Mom (just dont tell her), BadGT, Perfect Nissan, The Dude, toffeechips, JustCuz, 1loud99stang,AudioStylz2000, Sean D, 96_ImPaLa_Ss, Drunk Irish Bastard, ShaftSPL, Mouse Trap, BigWalrus, Iceman91, merlin12volt, HCCAfan, LoRanger, stemyluv69, *mikemex*, khstrom, Blunt, pure_canadian_bass, Scott Baxter, natedog101, sks, Dave Goss, Timmyboy, memphis2003, Booming_Creation, nomadbuc, d14marquis, audiobahn_guy, S10xtreme160s, Bass Freak, bryan666999, team nutts, and splprincess2002
Wanta join message me . . . Posts: 1446 | From: chicago, il, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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