quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: New 5000w Soundstream Amp (2 amps)
To me that one looks like a 2 channel single board amp. Is it? No, look closer, there are 2 boards. Sorry, I'm repeating myself, but if we rule like this we will leave door wide open for the JBL/Crown 6000. We will make people change their amps to more expensive, is that good for the sport? Can you not read? A JBL/Crown amp doesn't work off one battery, or even 2 batteries, it isn't an issue!
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8920 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: No, look closer, there are 2 boards.
Can you not read? A JBL/Crown amp doesn't work off one battery, or even 2 batteries, it isn't an issue!
Thanks for correcting me on the soundstream issue.
I can read, belive or not If you take a look on my post on this topic at 02-02-2004 12:15 PM, I just refuse to belive that JBL/Crown is inferior company in amplifier engineering compared to SPL Dynamics. They will fix the issues with 6000 for sure.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: No, look closer, there are 2 boards.
Can you not read? A JBL/Crown amp doesn't work off one battery, or even 2 batteries, it isn't an issue!
Thanks for correcting me on the soundstream issue.
I can read, belive or not If you take a look on my post on this topic at 02-02-2004 12:15 PM, I just refuse to belive that JBL/Crown is inferior company in amplifier engineering compared to SPL Dynamics. They will fix the issues with 6000 for sure.
Surely I have to agree with this. If one very small brand is able to do bigass amplifier that works in street use with single battery why wouldn't JBL/Crown be able to fix their amp like that. Ain't Crown then only true choice for street since other amps are banned.
-------------------- 2004 European Champion SS 3-4 165,6dB 2003 European Champion SSNW 160,9dB's 2002 European Champion S1-2. 156,2dB's Posts: 270 | From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: Can you not read? A JBL/Crown amp doesn't work off one battery, or even 2 batteries, it isn't an issue!
If protection of crown is fixed it surely will work on single battery or else it's one of the most unefficient ampliefiers...
-------------------- 2004 European Champion SS 3-4 165,6dB 2003 European Champion SSNW 160,9dB's 2002 European Champion S1-2. 156,2dB's Posts: 270 | From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
My views on whats been said.. and sorry this isnt on topic with Wayne's request, but:
1. A JBL Crown A6000GTi will not run off a single battery. Peak current draw is 900A FFS. Seems to me this entire thread is trying to get the Crown banned just like what happened before World's last year. (Which as you may recall didnt have Crown's anywhere in the winning honors in Street classes 'cos they won't work off 1 battery).
2. Amp must be strappable for Street A ? Everyone complained that Street wasnt accessible for kids with daily bashers so Wayne gave in and gave us Street A which is very accessible. So now someone wants a rule brought in to say you have to have a strappable amp ? Where does this leave the kids with daily bashers running a bridged 2 channel, or non-strappable monoblocks like Alpine's ? Great way to attract new blood
The intent of this thread is to collaborate a list of amps which are two (or more) amps in one chassis. Something like the Zapco 4Kw which is blatently 2 separate amps in one chassis in order to get around the amp number rules in competition formats.
posted
Zapco 4kW is not a issue here since it needs 4 conductors to be connected to woofers. It is not allowed in street A. In Street B you can use one 4kW, in street C you can use 2 4kW.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote:Originally posted by BlackIce: 1. A JBL Crown A6000GTi will not run off a single battery. Peak current draw is 900A FFS.
How is it possible to run two SPL Dynamics 4000D's of a single battery? Full power current need is around 900A with them also...
The current Street world record is with 2 on one batt, I believe.
If the SPL Dynamics 4000D is banned, it could be redesigned to be on one board, making its build the same as other amps. Banning an amp because it "looks" like multiple amps is only going to hinder development and raise prices of amps.
All RF power amps are two separate boards/heatsinks bolted together, are will they be considered two amps?
quote:Originally posted by DD Cherokee: The current Street world record is with 2 on one batt, I believe.
Actually Soundteam Painer used two 2000D's. They hold the street a record for 2003. Richard from sweden played louder with two 4000D's in a 3x event but it was not counted as a world record for some reason.
Markku Skantz and Team DD Austria - Rene Morawetz both hold the street b record (a tie!). They both ran 4 x 4000D's
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
posted
First off, no you can't power the Crown in a street car, its not an issue, even if it was, fit more than 1 of them in a car behind the B post, I dare you, it won't keep up with 2 4KWs anyway. I don't see why people keep throwing the 4KWs name out there, it has been counted as two amps, unlike the SPL Dynamics amp that was let run so whats the deal, why would someone want to get rid of it. Wayne is right, just count the amps for what they really are and be done with it, if we all stick to what we know is right for once there shouldn't be a problem, if a company tries to bend the rules to make a profit and get called, then they should have known better and I for one would sure not feel sorry for them getting caught trying to cheat the street class. I don't see a problem with the new rockford amp.
-------------------- KCG Team Maxxsonics Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
One more thing... We are all looking at the past now. Judging the issue with current products on the market. There will be a 5kW+ amp on the market before finals that will be counted as a single amp. This can be done, so why not? Without a real power limit we leave street open for monster amps, so why ban just some of them?
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote:Originally posted by BlackIce: 1. A JBL Crown A6000GTi will not run off a single battery. Peak current draw is 900A FFS.
How is it possible to run two SPL Dynamics 4000D's of a single battery? Full power current need is around 900A with them also...
The current Street world record is with 2 on one batt, I believe.
If the SPL Dynamics 4000D is banned, it could be redesigned to be on one board, making its build the same as other amps. Banning an amp because it "looks" like multiple amps is only going to hinder development and raise prices of amps.
All RF power amps are two separate boards/heatsinks bolted together, are will they be considered two amps?
Where will the line be drawn?
There are no 2004 World Records
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8596 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Multiple power connectors? is this a determining factor??????
what about Visonik 4000XD, Autotek MX3000, and others that are single boards with dual inputs for power and ground
-------------------- SCA DC Sound Labs PowerBass USA T3 Audio Soundstream Car Audio Posts: 6635 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dreid: Multiple power connectors? is this a determining factor??????
what about Visonik 4000XD, Autotek MX3000, and others that are single boards with dual inputs for power and ground
I don't know what you've seen, but I've got four V4000XDs in the garage that don't have dual power and ground....Paul has 12 of them that don't...Chad has 2-hk4000ds that don't....starting to see a pattern?
posted
this has gotten off-topic. I suggest we get back on topic.
This was the original question:
quote:From the second draft rules:
"Amplifiers that are constructed in such a way as to circumvent the amp quantity limitation may be prohibited from use in this division or may count as multiple amplifiers. Please visit http://www.termpro.com/dbdrag/rules/rules1.html for more information."
How is this defined? Multiple power connectors? Multiple boards? Multiple heat sinks?
this was Wayne's response:
quote:Since we have limitations on the number of amps that can be used in the Street and Street Max divisions, it is important that we accurately count the number of amps that are actually being used.
For example, if a manufacturer takes 2 amps and bolts them together, then the new "amp" should count as 2 amps. This doesn't ban the amp, it just insures that it counts for what it really is.
I have a pretty good idea of which amps need to be added to this list. Now, I would like to hear from you.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8596 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: [QUOTE] SPL Dynamics EXT-5000D (4 amps)
Single RCA-input, single speaker output (+ and -). Why is it 4 amps?
Isn't this made of internally linked 4 x DIG 1450 ?
My point exactly, it doesn't matter how many positive and negative it has! It is 4 amps because there are 4 DIG-1450(1000D) inside it.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8920 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
If we start bannig some amps and allowing some other there must be a set of rules to define what is legal and what is not.
Rules must be exact and clear, manufacturers must know what they can do and what they can't do. They can't be expected to make a new model and always ask if it is allowed or not. Developing amps is expensive, it must be known in advance what can be done.
If we do not create these rules I'am afraid that things will get "political", big manufactures will be allowed to do some things and small will be banned.
So, dBDRA must create a set of allowed and banned design principles for amps. Sorry, but that sounds like old russian stuff to me. Authorities tell how equipment should be manufactured, and that is it for the next 5 years. Where is the sense in that?
We should address the problem - too much power in street classes. Not the sympthom - amps tailored to fit the rules.
There is no way to limit the cost / power unless we create a real and enforced power cap. There is no way around it.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
You bring up some valid points. Unfortunately, I don't have an exact solution at this time. Many of the suggestions that I have read here have valid engineering applications in single amplifier designs.
I would like to use a consensus approach for the time being. I believe that most of us KNOW which amps should be counted as multiple amplifiers.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
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