posted
"·The center console must bisect the centerlineof the vehicle" I am wondering why that rule is still in rules because minimum distance between console and door is 13". MAybe it should be removed ? It will be easier to competitors and judges if there is only one thing to measure.
What you think ?
-------------------- -Life begins after 175 db- 4.1 dB's over the goal Posts: 790 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
i think the rule is clear and defined. Your console , must be at 13 inches or more from the doors. and it must be centered in the car you are using. Sounds simple on how to build one.
-------------------- Anthony Lloyd Full Moon Racing In need of a sponsor . Posts: 3220 | From: Loves Park , Ill | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'm still having issues with this one myself. In a Chevy astro, the dog box isn't centered. When you build a center console out to cover up the dog box, it doesn't pass the 13" test on the passenger side because the dog box is shifted more to that side. I have WAY more than 13" on the drivers side, but under 10" on the passenger.
Again, 100% behind the intent of the rule, just Chevy throwing a kink into it.
-------------------- Mike Extreme Audio www.ExtremeAudio.org Extreme Van for Sale, complete or empty! Team JBL Team Fi Certified 179.3 dB 2005/06/07 dB Drag Extreme 3-4 World Champion 3 Time Deathmatch Participant 2004/05/06/07 IDBL World Record Holder 2004/2005 MECA World Record Holder 2006 USACi B&K WR SuperMod Ext.
Posts: 1320 | From: Mechanicsville, Va USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Actually I'll do that, but I'm also wanting to throw it out there where everyone else can see it. I had originally thought there was no problem with the rules for me aside from a little bit of roof trimming. Then the stupid dog box thing hit me. I'm wondering if other "extreme" astro's have the same issue?
-------------------- Mike Extreme Audio www.ExtremeAudio.org Extreme Van for Sale, complete or empty! Team JBL Team Fi Certified 179.3 dB 2005/06/07 dB Drag Extreme 3-4 World Champion 3 Time Deathmatch Participant 2004/05/06/07 IDBL World Record Holder 2004/2005 MECA World Record Holder 2006 USACi B&K WR SuperMod Ext.
Posts: 1320 | From: Mechanicsville, Va USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I posted these under Judges forum, but thought it might help to post them here too :
----------------------------- btw. one thing about Extreme console, I don't remember if someone has said, but as there are limitations on lenghts from door to console and so on, is it so necessary to force the console to be exactly in the middle of the car ? I don't see it very important point, and allowing them to move the console within the other limits already given might be a good idea. That would allow people to leave little more space in the drivers side for easier driving, matching the console with gearsticks and pedals etc... these will not match if the console must be in the center as then you have to build both sides as small. Or it might help some smaller cars with more than 1-2 woofers to make a better working setup... Leave at least some room for creativity or any special needs to make it reasonable that we might not know yet.
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So, any thoughts about centering the center consol ? I honestly think it is unnecessary rule because of other rules. And we are now making extreme judging easy aren't we ? We only need a 30" measure and a mic jig. If we have to start measuring is the center consol exactly in the middle, we need more tools and calculations.
For example, how do we determine the center point of the car ? If I remember right, nothing says you have to make both doors as thick, so you can actually make the door thicker in one side than the other, which can "fool" the center point. Just measuring the center point of the car can be difficult sometimes...
It should be good enough to have those other rules about how much space there has to be between the door and center console, no need to force the concol to be exactly in the middle. Or if it has to be exactly in the middle, how much we allow "errors" ?
Posts: 575 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I personally think centered is the best idea or we are gonna end up with interiors that are filled on the drivers side and nothing on the passengers side door. You open up way to many grey areas and I can see that a problem. I say leave it the way it is proposed in the draft Wayne posted.
posted
The idea of having the center console in the center is good and easy. It is the practical side that I am little bit concerned about. How accurate we judges have to determine the centerline of the car and how will the competitors determine the centerline.
And the other side is like some people have said, it just doesn't work very well for all cars to build the console in the center. I don't mean it does not work good for SPL, I just mean it might be difficult to do it like that as it can result problems with pedals, gear sticks or you have to make it "weird" in some other way... I don't know.
As a judge, I would feel better about having for example the min. and max. distances from the door, that would be a lot easier to check than figuring out the centerline and then measuring if the console is exactly in the middle... and when some "not so good bob-the-builders" have done some bad measuring and the console is 1" too much to the left or right we need to kick them home back to building.
Of course some people can use or abuse if we allow the console to not be exactly in the center, but would that be such a big deal... just a little part where you could do something few inches off from the next car in line, but with all the restrictions and requirement, it would not allow you to do any crazy consoles.
Posts: 575 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I agree with you also Jani but you have to agree that we have total contol over the extreme interiors and most if not all extreme competitors are exceptional carpenters and prob can make the console center fairly easy.
If they(extreme competitors) can make a wall pass the string test by 1/16" then making a center console center is simple.
To figure out if its center you would simply measure the distance from each door to the coresponding side of the console, if each other rule was not broken(door buildout, etc...) and the measurments are the same on each side then its safe to say its center.
posted
So like I said earlier, how about if you build your doors to be different in thickness. Then you can move your consol at least few inches to the direction you might want to - or we put it in the rules that also doors must be identical to each other in thickness
Well, I just want to make this thing heard, that's all. I also tried few times in the Judges forum to explain a lot about why the roof build-down rule was not good in practice, when Wayne wanted it to be exactly to the doorjamb... but I got pretty much ignored before the big fellows said the same things in public
I just don't want to find us cursing with the center consoles afterwards as we are doing the big changes now. Better make them as perfect and realistic to start with so we don't need to change much soon in the future.
Some things can sound very simple and good in the beginning, but then we can find out "this and that" about them and how it doesn't work the best way in practice.
In my mind this goes pretty much in the same category with the floor to roof measurement and the roof build down measurement which both were changed to be more practical and usable in real cars and not just in theory.
If nothing else, I at least would like to get a word from Wayne about how precise we need to be with the centerline and is the centerline some line actually in center of the car or is it half way measurement from right door panel/build up to left door panel/build up.
But I still don't see what is so bad about it if we allow one side to be the minimum we now have determined and the other side a bit bigger if needed/wanted (???) Easier to judge at least, only have to check a minimum required distance between door and consol rather than finding the centerline and measuring the distance is exactly the same on both sides... And would allow just a LITTLE creativity or space for "special needs" for guys building those cars.
Okey, I am starting to repeat myself, I guess that's all about this little thing Posts: 575 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: The CENTER console must be CENTERED along the CENTERLINE of vehicle. I'll make sure there is no confusion on this issue.
Thanks for the clarification, I was just offering my opinion on the matter. I also believed that a CENTER console should be as was originally stated in the first draft.
I do look forward for the final draft so I can order my membership.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: The CENTER console must be CENTERED along the CENTERLINE of vehicle. I'll make sure there is no confusion on this issue.
I'am simply guy so can you write methods how i can measure my centerline of my car, please.... I know what is ABOUT centerline but that EXCATLY centerline is mysterious to me.
-------------------- -Life begins after 175 db- 4.1 dB's over the goal Posts: 790 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: The CENTER console must be CENTERED along the CENTERLINE of vehicle. I'll make sure there is no confusion on this issue.
please define ''Centered''
for instance:
- console is 20'' from left door and 22'' from right
- or, console is 21'' from left door and 21'' from right door
I know that console should be in the middle,but does it need to be exactly the same distance on both sides?
Posts: 1820 | From: Ljubljana, Slovenia | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: The CENTER console must be CENTERED along the CENTERLINE of vehicle. I'll make sure there is no confusion on this issue.
please define ''Centered''
for instance:
- console is 20'' from left door and 22'' from right
- or, console is 21'' from left door and 21'' from right door
I know that console should be in the middle,but does it need to be exactly the same distance on both sides?
This can't be used because people might build different thicknesses on their doors. To measure the center-point stretch a tape measure between the a-pillars. Simply divide the measurement by 2, and that is the center-point of vehicle.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7768 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Team LOUD ML: I think this is bad thing to this sport
Are EXTREME any more EXTREME ???
Do you wanna to see that every EXTREME car is same like others?
Where are all creations?
We only see some woofers and amps diffirencies!!!
Sorry my bad language...
I have to agree with this... there's going to be only box to "play" with... and that's not the place were the pressure is found aprox. 90% of the extreme vehicle score is made in cabin.
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny:
quote:Originally posted by Dr.Loudness:
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: The CENTER console must be CENTERED along the CENTERLINE of vehicle. I'll make sure there is no confusion on this issue.
please define ''Centered''
for instance:
- console is 20'' from left door and 22'' from right
- or, console is 21'' from left door and 21'' from right door
I know that console should be in the middle,but does it need to be exactly the same distance on both sides?
This can't be used because people might build different thicknesses on their doors. To measure the center-point stretch a tape measure between the a-pillars. Simply divide the measurement by 2, and that is the center-point of vehicle.
Problem is in language!!!
We don't speak same language and someone migh understand ''centered'' different!
So we need exact definition what Wayne ment as centered!
Is it that left and right side is mirored image and dimensions or is centered just ment that it is ''barier'' between left and right seat.
Thanks
Peter
PS: small things in rules can have big influence. If we will have everything detailed well, we will have good and fair competitions.
Posts: 1820 | From: Ljubljana, Slovenia | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
The problem is that you and I speak different languages or anyone else for that matter. All of the judges speak very good english and they know exactly what the rules mean. You know what centered means, I know what centered means, EVERYONE knows what centered means. There are however, people who claim they don't know what it means because of different languages, but we all know they are just playing dumb to try to get away with breaking rules.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7768 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I know what centered means and that is the reason why i want know how we are trying to measure centerline of extreme car ? IN normal car that is very easy to do because cabin is orginal but in extreme car there might be quite hard to find orginal surfaces whats you can use to measuring.
-------------------- -Life begins after 175 db- 4.1 dB's over the goal Posts: 790 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Its like Johnny said ! Measure between the A Pillars and take the half. Make an 90 degree angle and go backwards. So you can measure how much the "center" console is shifted.
Anyways, how much cars have the issue with that rule? Is it just the Astro Van? So ban Astro Vans out of db drag...
Hahaha, just kidding, that would be the end of dB Drag I think...
Serious, can we have a list with cars what have "nonsymetrical" cabins because of the not really centered center console? So we may take the car with the most offset and take this as the limit?
Can this work?
Üüüühh!!! Michael
PS.: I think the new Extreme rules help the sport a lot. The cars become looking like cars again, where people can REALLY sit in, not like just micro pressure chambers on wheels where everybody designs his "High SPL Pocket"...
posted
In most vans that are rear wheel drive, the drive train is not centered perfectly. This should have no affect on you building the extreme cars as you can make the cabin as you wish. If you don't have the ability to build a console that is centered in your extreme vehicle, then you should try Super Street or other classes, as this should be a very simple thing to accomplish.
-------------------- Bobby Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA Posts: 3468 | From: Retirement Village in Branson Missouri. | Registered: May 1999
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