10. Extreme 1 11. Extreme 2 12. Extreme 3-4 13. Extreme 5+ 14. Monster - No limits on vehicle modifications or equipment – No qualifications required for World Finals. Class record only. Not eligible for Extreme Cup or prize money.
This division is different from Super Street because…
• Vehicle modifications • No power limits per driver • No seats allowed • Nothing in the passenger compartment except for dash, roof, floor, and center console. (Nothing hanging down, sticking up, etc.)
This division is the same as Super Street because…
• Multi-coil woofers allowed (A maximum of 4 electrical conductors may be connected to each woofer.)
Extreme Custom Dashboard Requirements
• Each vehicle MUST have a dash. • The highest point of the dash may not extend above the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield. • The lowest point of the dash may not be located any lower than 3 inches below the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield. • The dash shall extend from the windshield pillar on the driver’s side to the windshield pillar on the passenger side. • The minimum depth of the dash shall be 6 inches (measured in the center of the dash). The maximum depth of the dash shall be 12 inches (measured in the center of the dash). (??? 13 maybe ???) • The plane of the dash must be flat with respect to the ground at all locations within 12 inches distance from the sensor. • The trailing edge of the dash (facing the passenger compartment) must be straight from one side of the vehicle to the other. (Viewed from the top.) • The relationship between the dash and the windshield shall be such that the sensor can be placed on the windshield and the proper distances from the sensor to the dash (4 inches) and the sensor to the windshield pillar (12 inches) can be achieved. • Holes and notches are not permitted in the dash.
Extreme Center Console Limitations
• Each vehicle MAY have a center console. • ??? The maximum width of the center console is 18 inches (looking down). ??? • The center console may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the dash. • The center console must be centered in the vehicle and must be symmetrical when viewed from the top. • If the center console interferes with the “string test”, then that portion of the center console shall be easily removable for officiating purposes.
Extreme Roof Build-Down Limitations
• Competitors MAY construct a roof build-down if desired. • ??? The build-down may not extend below the top of the door jamb. The string test will be used to determine compliance. ???
Extreme Door Build-Out Limitations
• Competitors MAY build-out their door panels if desired. • The top of the build out may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the dash. • The maximum distance the build-out may extend into the passenger compartment is 4 inches. (Measured from the location of the original door panel.)
Extreme Passenger Compartment Requirements
• ??? A minimum vertical separation of 3 feet (36 inches) MUST be provided between the headliner (or roof build-down) and the floor (or floor build-up) at ALL locations within the passenger compartment except over the center console and the dash. ??? • ??? A 36-inch rod will be used to determine compliance. The judge will hold the rod vertically and move it around inside of the passenger compartment. If the rod’s movement is impeded in any way, then the vehicle fails compliance with this rule. ???
Extreme Windshield Limitations
• The maximum windshield thickness is 4 inches. • A uniform thickness must be used for all windshield panels. • If the windshield is panelized, only vertical separations may be used.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
Not exactly what I would want, but I can live with it. Real extreme people rebuild every year anyways...LOL
Only thing I would suggest changing is the 36 inch rule.... I think 32 or 34 would be better.
I think clear wording should be included that the top plane of the dash has to be solid, no corugated/expanded metal, etc.
Also, I noticed no mention of loading baffles. Does that mean they are ok as long as they are behind the plane of the string test? If they are not allowed, you need to include wording as to the back of the center console, and its relationship to the woofers (alot of cars, all with 5+ woofs, have woofers behind the console, so the back of the console is a loading baffle, so to speak) I say if they are not allowed, make an exception for the rear of the console, but no larger than that.
posted
I will not be participating in this class, so I do not have any personal opinions for the structure. That is best suited for the people who will be participating in this class. But, I would like to point out a slight oversight...
"Nothing in the passenger compartment except for dash, roof, floor, and center console. (Nothing hanging down, sticking up, etc.)"
There is no mention of the door panels.
PS. Your doing a wonderful job of trying to make as many competitors happy at one time. Not an easy task. I would just like to take this opportunity to say "Thank You".
posted
Wayne could you please comment about the baffle loading issue? Good job Nate!
-------------------- The Founder of the Florida Db Drag Racing Team Bassboy173-Ed Eason IDBL World Record Holder 2271+ 2001 and 2002 Florida State Champion Extreme 13+ The Worlds Loudest Driving Vehicle Posts: 490 | From: st. petesburg,Florida | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Originally posted by Kim: My try to make the rules a little more fair to both big and small cars.
Why not just skip the door build-out limitation and write the rule like this: The distance between the doors and the center console MUST be 13" or more on BOTH sides.
And skip the rule about the door jamb. Write the rule like this: The distance between the roof/build down and the floor/build up, MUST be 31" or more (infront of the B-pillar).
If the rule is writen like this you can be able to have the same air space in front of the B-pillar in a big car as in an small. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All european Extreme guys support your idea. That is very simple and fair. We can only hope that Wayne see this idea and feel our pain when we are trying to solve new rules our cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, I agree with this as well. One of the big points I made about setting a center console max width was that in every car the available width is totally different. A 12" max wide console in a astro van or caravan is nothing! In a small car, this may be a substantial console. You cannot make a generalization on something such as this without either hurting the vans or small cars... Wayne, please look into this!
KARA LUCIUS & JOHN HELLEMN TEAM THUNDERFORCE, TEAM SUPERIOR SOUND, TEAM GATES 2003 dB Drag Racing Extreme 2 US Champions 169.5dB 2003 MECA X2 World Champions 170.4dB 2003 MECA State Record Holders 163.2dB 2003 dB Drag Racing Former Extreme 3-4 World Record Holders 166.4dB 2003 dB Drag Racing Deathmatch Champions - AudioThunder, Toronto 2002 dB Drag Racing Former Extreme 9-12 World Record Holders 173.2dB
-------------------- Kara Lucius TEAM THUNDERFORCE~ TEAM SUPERIOR SOUND~ TEAM GATES 2004 dB Drag Racing EX 2 World Champions 170.5dB 2004 Idbl Ult 2 World Champions 172.5 dB 2004 MECA X1 World Champions 166.1 dB (3000 watts of power, baby!! ) 2003 dB Drag Racing Ex 2 World Champions 169.5dB 2003 MECA X2 World Champions 170.4 dB Click Here to View My dB Dragster: Posts: 597 | From: Ada, OH | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ea1:
First, the roof build should be at 2 inches or something for some cars that it just makes sense while building to come a little below the jamb (not me, my roof is above the door jamb)
I agree totally Nate. The idea of using the string test is great Wayne, BUT in many cases a very MINIMAL builddown will even dip slightly below the doorjam (especially in the front). If you want to use the string test, use it in conjunction with the mic jig. That would allow a maximum of 4" below doorjam. This would still be an easy test to perform. A judge would place the mic jig against the doorjam and the string against the mic jig. Make Sense?
KARA LUCIUS & JOHN HELLEMN TEAM THUNDERFORCE, TEAM SUPERIOR SOUND, TEAM GATES 2003 dB Drag Racing Extreme 2 US Champions 169.5dB 2003 MECA X2 World Champions 170.4dB 2003 MECA State Record Holders 163.2dB 2003 dB Drag Racing Former Extreme 3-4 World Record Holders 166.4dB 2003 dB Drag Racing Deathmatch Champions - AudioThunder, Toronto 2002 dB Drag Racing Former Extreme 9-12 World Record Holders 173.2dB
-------------------- Kara Lucius TEAM THUNDERFORCE~ TEAM SUPERIOR SOUND~ TEAM GATES 2004 dB Drag Racing EX 2 World Champions 170.5dB 2004 Idbl Ult 2 World Champions 172.5 dB 2004 MECA X1 World Champions 166.1 dB (3000 watts of power, baby!! ) 2003 dB Drag Racing Ex 2 World Champions 169.5dB 2003 MECA X2 World Champions 170.4 dB Click Here to View My dB Dragster: Posts: 597 | From: Ada, OH | Registered: Aug 1999
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• The highest point of the dash may not extend above the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield. • The lowest point of the dash may not be located any lower than 3 inches below the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield.
Here you are mentioning the highest and lowest part of the dash. There should not be a high spot and low spot in the dash, just "the dash" (if I interpret correctly). I think you should rephrase this and just use "The dash may not.." due to the next rule:
quote: • The plane of the dash must be flat with respect to the ground at all locations within 12 inches distance from the sensor.
quote: • The dash shall extend from the windshield pillar on the driver’s side to the windshield pillar on the passenger side. • The minimum depth of the dash shall be 6 inches (measured in the center of the dash). The maximum depth of the dash shall be 12 inches (measured in the center of the dash). (??? 13 maybe ???).
This is where it may get tricky with the 12-13" depth rule at the center of the dash. Some vehicles have a deeper depth at the center due to the OEM curve of the winshield. A competitor may try to follow the rules by creating a dash from the A-pillar on the driver side to the A-pillar on the passenger side. In the end, they may have broken the 12" depth rule due to the OEM winshield placement. What I would suggest: Keep the A-pillar to A-pillar dash construction rule so the dash spans the entire width. To reapply the depth rule, make up a certain depth that the dash cannot extend past the front door jamb line. This would state: at the bottom of the windshield, the dash cannot extend no further than ??2"?? past the A-pillar/frontal door jamb.
quote: • ??? The maximum width of the center console is 18 inches (looking down). ??? • The center console may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the dash. .
14"-16" sounds good. Also, with the "lowest part of dash" should be "the dash"
quote: • If the center console interferes with the “string test”, then that portion of the center console shall be easily removable for officiating purposes.
Personally, I think we should have a minimum distance set for the center console to baffle. If it in the way of the string test, it is either extending into the enclosure or dividing the cabin. I think this rule should state: The center colsole must be a minimum of ?3"? from the "string test" line.
quote: Extreme Roof Build-Down Limitations
• Competitors MAY construct a roof build-down if desired. • ??? The build-down may not extend below the top of the door jamb. The string test will be used to determine compliance. ???
Many of people have noticed that there is not much room to build down a roof to this rule, and make it strong. I suggest you use the the mic jig width as a measuring tool. This must be about 2", correct? Just hold the jig up to the top of the door jamb line to test.
quote: • The top of the build out may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the dash.
Here again, the dash should be on an even plane so the wording "...height of the dash" applies.
quote:
Extreme Windshield Limitations
• The maximum windshield thickness is 4 inches. • A uniform thickness must be used for all windshield panels. • If the windshield is panelized, only vertical separations may be used.
Maybe I am being to anal....The max thickness for both the windshield and windows is 4" (loop hole for side glass to be 24" thick)
Just my $2.50
-------------------- Mike Agens Team Hertz President 2001 dB Drag Racing 1-2 Sub World Champions 1999 dB Drag Racing 1-2 Sub World Champions 1999 dB Drag Racing World Points Champion 1999 AS&S/Wayne Harris SPL Achievement Award 1998 dB Drag World Finals 5th Ama 10K+ NJ's Loudest Since '98 "Only one show counts....World Finals" Posts: 336 | From: Hertz, NJ | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
i would also suggest changing the 36" to maybe 32,, as my own vehcicle is pretty close to 32 and that is with a minimal roof build down and a floor build up to the stock height of where the bottom door jamb is!!
im sure other vehicles would be affected by this as well.. cause my floor is NOT comin out anytime soon!!!!
-------------------- Greg Piper -2002 Mich. Points Champion (172) -2002 dB Drag World Finalist (SS9+) -1997 Ford F-150 -1985 Chevy Astro van Posts: 3060 | From: Houghton MI | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
The reason for the 'highest' and 'lowest' wording, is that you can have a raised instrument cluster, etc, that can be as high as the bottom of the windshield. The part under the mic may be 3 inches lower, BUT, it will have to extend out (at that level) for 12 inches in either direction.
quote:Originally posted by Kara Lucius: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ea1:
First, the roof build should be at 2 inches or something for some cars that it just makes sense while building to come a little below the jamb (not me, my roof is above the door jamb)
I agree totally Nate. The idea of using the string test is great Wayne, BUT in many cases a very MINIMAL builddown will even dip slightly below the doorjam (especially in the front). If you want to use the string test, use it in conjunction with the mic jig. That would allow a maximum of 4" below doorjam. This would still be an easy test to perform. A judge would place the mic jig against the doorjam and the string against the mic jig. Make Sense?
I think the maximum roof buildown ( if any ) should be limited to 2 inches. 4 inches would be a very big build down in most cars, and in a van is quite large also.
I say 1-2 inches for those who may just breach the plane of the door jamb. with their current or proposed reinforcements.
quote:Originally posted by ea1: The reason for the 'highest' and 'lowest' wording, is that you can have a raised instrument cluster, etc, that can be as high as the bottom of the windshield. The part under the mic may be 3 inches lower, BUT, it will have to extend out (at that level) for 12 inches in either direction.
Nate...I see what you are saying. Then this would mean I could have 3" deep pocket that is 12" around the mic? I think the dash should be flat with no deviation in height to eliminate any type of pockets, even if they are small and shallow. We know what they are capable of
-------------------- Mike Agens Team Hertz President 2001 dB Drag Racing 1-2 Sub World Champions 1999 dB Drag Racing 1-2 Sub World Champions 1999 dB Drag Racing World Points Champion 1999 AS&S/Wayne Harris SPL Achievement Award 1998 dB Drag World Finals 5th Ama 10K+ NJ's Loudest Since '98 "Only one show counts....World Finals" Posts: 336 | From: Hertz, NJ | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
what is up with the windshield sections only being vertical. what does it matter what shape it is as long it is the same thickness and follows the original contour of the factory windshield. don't mind me i am just bit%#ing because me and my boy spent half of last year building an extreme van to bring out this year and it will never see a db drag event. and i do love db drag. but our roof is 1/4 inch steel welded like crazy and filled with concrete and then we thought we would design this kick a** windshield, and now we cant even compete with the van. i know i sound like i am whining i'm not. i just like rules to make sense. wayne you are doing an awsome job at trying to make everyone happy though thank you
-------------------- 1993 astro bagged on 22's team t3 audio team excessive amperage 06 sbn 3rd place bass race 140-149.9 06 sbn 4th place sm 1-2 06 wf 2nd place bass race 157.8 06 wf 6th place ss5+ 160.8
Posts: 906 | From: bainbrige, ga | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ea1: The reason for the 'highest' and 'lowest' wording, is that you can have a raised instrument cluster, etc, that can be as high as the bottom of the windshield. The part under the mic may be 3 inches lower, BUT, it will have to extend out (at that level) for 12 inches in either direction.
Nate...I see what you are saying. Then this would mean I could have 3" deep pocket that is 12" around the mic? I think the dash should be flat with no deviation in height to eliminate any type of pockets, even if they are small and shallow. We know what they are capable of
I think the real controlling factor on that is that NONE of the console can be higher than the lowest part of the dash. With that being said, all you can really do is put a 3 inch guage cluster on the drivers side, 12 inches+ from the mic.
quote:Originally posted by BARRY COOK: what is up with the windshield sections only being vertical. what does it matter what shape it is as long it is the same thickness and follows the original contour of the factory windshield. don't mind me i am just bit%#ing because me and my boy spent half of last year building an extreme van to bring out this year and it will never see a db drag event. and i do love db drag. but our roof is 1/4 inch steel welded like crazy and filled with concrete and then we thought we would design this kick a** windshield, and now we cant even compete with the van. i know i sound like i am whining i'm not. i just like rules to make sense. wayne you are doing an awsome job at trying to make everyone happy though thank you
I am sorry you are going to have to change that up
I do have a question though. When putting in that roof, WHY did you weld it in below the roofline anyways. It would be much stronger up inside, as it could be welded directly to the chassis on all 4 sides. My thinking has always been make it strong AND big at first, then use buildups, downs, outs, etc to get the best effect. Sometimes lower isn't always better.
posted
I can probably live with the roof build down going a little below the door jamb. (1 mic jig width = 1.5 inches.)
I can live with rod test of less than 36 inches. But not much less.
I can live with a minimum open space of 18 inches or so from the inside of the door panel to the center console. If no center console is present, then the door panel to door panel clearance should be a minimum of 40 inches or so. Door panel buildouts cannot be any higher than the lowest point of the dash (top of the dash).
I will clean up the dash construction some more. It is very clear in my mind. After I "wordcraft" these rules for the rulebook, we will have a complete draft of the rulebook to analyze.
What else?
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I can probably live with the roof build down going a little below the door jamb. (1 mic jig width = 1.5 inches.)
I can live with rod test of less than 36 inches. But not much less.
I can live with a minimum open space of 18 inches or so from the inside of the door panel to the center console. If no center console is present, then the door panel to door panel clearance should be a minimum of 40 inches or so. Door panel buildouts cannot be any higher than the lowest point of the dash (top of the dash).
I will clean up the dash construction some more. It is very clear in my mind. After I "wordcraft" these rules for the rulebook, we will have a complete draft of the rulebook to analyze.
What else?
Sounding better. How about 33 inches for the rod length?
Also, the 18 inches from door to console would be a big hinderance for small cars... basically saying no console ( at least not over 3-4 inches wide)
I think a combination of 2 measurements would make for the smoothest judging, and least loopholes.... How about 18 inch wide MAXIMUM for console, and 13 inches wide MINIMUM (jig length) for door to console (basically what what required before for the old 12 inch flat surface rule)
posted
Wayne, I think the no roof build-down pass the upper door jamb rule is perfect, that way there is no grey area to it. A factory line is a factory line no way around it! And as far as the the 36" rule I like it as well. That means I will actually be able to get in and drive the thing. (the way it should be!) Will it make us change things? Yes. Change for the better? I believe so! I think so many different interpatations of current rules is what lead us to get out of hand with the design of the interiors that we have now in the first place. The quest for higher #'s is a great one, there is alot of time, effort, MONEY, and more importantly "PRIDE" involved in these cars as you know! With that much at stake we sometimes lose sight of what we should do and we push harder into the "Grey" areas to further our scores. I just wanted to give my two cents on the issues at hand and say I think what you guys have drafted so far is a really good START on eliminating most of the Grey!
P.S. No matter what I will Still come and PLAY!
-------------------- Art's Sound Chamber II 63 MAFIA "BRSOOE" Graduate & Sometimes Instructor! Posts: 653 | From: Midwest | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ea1: Sounding better. How about 33 inches for the rod length?
Also, the 18 inches from door to console would be a big hinderance for small cars... basically saying no console ( at least not over 3-4 inches wide)
I think a combination of 2 measurements would make for the smoothest judging, and least loopholes.... How about 18 inch wide MAXIMUM for console, and 13 inches wide MINIMUM (jig length) for door to console (basically what what required before for the old 12 inch flat surface rule)
Nate! Your idea is very good and simple. We like it !!
-------------------- -Life begins after 175 db- 4.1 dB's over the goal Posts: 844 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Extreme Door Build-Out Limitations: • The top of the build out may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the dash.
Just wondering what the specific intention of this rule is? Is there a reason that the door build out height cannot come up to meet the bottom edge of the side window glass?
It seems that having this would encourage having an extremely thin dash due to there being no minimum thickness atm.
Just Curious?
Also will there be more specifics on build limitations for the Monster Class?
-------------------- I'm so happy, Cuz today I found my friends, They're in my head. Posts: 130 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Wayne what is going to be the voltage limit for extreme and when is going to be the final rules?. 3 monts since the last time I was on this site, and is a lot going on.
-------------------- JAIME DE LA PAZ 2000, 2002 WORLD CHAMPION 2001, 2003 WORLD SUB CHAMPION 2000, 2002 DEATHMATCH WINNER 2000 EXTREME CUP WINNER 2000, 2002, 2003 WORD RECORD HOLDER 2004 not the best year 2005 it may be worst. Posts: 163 | From: ohio | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
wayne, you mentioned richard clarks 6 foot sub to be like what you want to see in monster, does this mean we can just hook up an actuator to a huge cone and run batteries directly into it?
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I can probably live with the roof build down going a little below the door jamb. (1 mic jig width = 1.5 inches.)
I can live with rod test of less than 36 inches. But not much less.
I can live with a minimum open space of 18 inches or so from the inside of the door panel to the center console. If no center console is present, then the door panel to door panel clearance should be a minimum of 40 inches or so. Door panel buildouts cannot be any higher than the lowest point of the dash (top of the dash).
I will clean up the dash construction some more. It is very clear in my mind. After I "wordcraft" these rules for the rulebook, we will have a complete draft of the rulebook to analyze.
What else?
My car OEM door panel to door panel clearance is 40 inches!!!
So if you have a little car you can´t compete?
-------------------- Marko Lonngren Finland Certified Head Judge Posts: 322 | From: FINLAND | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I have just build an extreme car, from roof to floor it's 36" but I will not pas the sting test,because it's 2" lower, here in Europe the cars are smaller, its build with concrete totally, for changing it, that is not easy possible, I build more than 1,5 year on this car, now I must make a another car to fit these new rules (its titanswork ,to make a car like that alone ,without sponsering etc..) My question is: Is it not beter to hold ... inches from roof to floor and not the stingtest ? Here are the pictures so you can compare http://groups.msn.com/superSTANYDLSTEAMBELGIUM/elkehaarextreme.msnw?Page=1 4 page's http://groups.msn.com/CrashBandicootSPLTeam/elkesextremecar.msnw?Page=1 there are 5 page's I would like to know what you excactly mean with the rod test ? And how wide may the doorpanels inside be ? Thanks for you repley !
-------------------- 8 x 2000D SPL DYNAMICS 18 X OPTIMA YELLOW TOPS 2xDD 9515 extreme1 163.5 db EXTREME 2 165.5 db at euro finals 2004 164.8 db at sinsheim 2004 highest score 166.1 db 2002 SS 1-2 wall 157.8 db Posts: 241 | From: dendermonde | Registered: Aug 2002
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