posted
Now I'll start by saying that I do not mean to offend anyone with this post. These are just some of my own personal ideas that I would like to be considered/discussed. I know that I'll get some competitors riled up with a few of my suggestions, but I do have a purpose and a method for the madness.This post is super long so please bear with me and give me an open mind.
Disconnect yourself from your personal issues and think about my suggestions from a point of view that considers this sport as a whole, it's direction, direction of the automotive industry, and most importantly direction of the car audio industry.
Before I begin let's consider a few hard facts. The car audio industry is only a fraction of the size that it was in the early to mid 90's. (or at least the competition scene is) The things which drew us into this sport were loud stereos. Fancy installs, sound quality, and then major spl became the focus. Now many of target demographic has gone in directions of import tuning, drag racing, drifting, and other pursuits. The market simply isn't as great as it once was. Automobile manufacturers have begun offering better audio systems and even video and navigational systems, and alarms with tracking devices. All of which used to be the bread and butter installs that supported shops so that they would have the revenue to host shows and build wild creations.
Since that time the internet has taken this industry by storm. A very large portion of the car audio equipment sold today is sold over the internet, and more people then ever do their own installs or at least try to before turning to a shop to help. With ultra accessibility to low cost products on the internet and reduced profit margins due to the number of shops still in this business in any given metro area the profitability isn't where it used to be. This is one of the key elements to being able to host shows and events. You have to be able to attract people to them both to attend (those who will get the bug to compete, and for current competitors.)
The main people that we need to get involved in competition today is the current and next generation of competitors. If not, then we will slowly die out like the dinasaurs. In order to do that below I am going to outline what I believe would be a more attractive format for newbies and some modifications to existing classes. One of Wayne's main concerns (and mine as a retailer) is of not having too many classes. It makes the shows to costly and leads to events that are much too complicated to effectively manage.
Street 1 - A basic competition class that allows for one sub amplifier that is either a single channel amplifier or a 2 channel amplifier with an MSRP of $699 or less for the subwoofers. Subwoofer enclosures must be sealed enclosures, pass the string test currently outlined in street class.
The battery must fit into the factory battery tray with no modifications or additions and must be a 12 volt battery. The battery must sit on the factory battery tray flat, it can not sit on the edges of the battery tray and must be secured by the unaltered factory tie down assembly. No modifications of any kind may be made to the battery tray or any of the surrounding components. Components under the hood can not be relocated or re-oriented in order to accomodate a larger battery size. The automobile may have an upgraded alternator, but the car can not be running during testing. (allows for upgraded alternators for the street beaters, but eliminates any advantages during spl testing)
Street 2 - All rules are the same as above except the enclosure may be a ported enclosure. This eliminates the unfair advantage of larger ported enclosures over a sealed enclosure. Sealed enclosures are common in every day beginner systems. This levels the playing field so that a guy with a pair of sealed subs doesn't have his rear end handed to him by a guy with a large ported enclosure.
Amplifiers using two boards in a single amplifier (such as a US Amps 6000 or the big Zapco amplifiers will be counted as two amplifiers)Internally bridged amplifiers on one board will still be counted as a mono amplifier but must still meet the MSRP requirement.
The two street classes would be limited to one layer of sound deadening material.
The burping frequency would be limited to 45hz, nothing higher would be allowed. This is also more in line with systems tuned for daily driving.
Limiting the MSRP and making it the competitors responsibility to prove MSRP from a verifiable source would make it easy to handle during registration and verification. Any competitor who can not provide proof of MSRP will be bumped into one of the pro street classes or will not be allowed to compete.
Street 1 would be broken up into two classes. Street 1A - 1-2 subwoofers from 8-12" or one 15" subwoofer. Street 1B - 3-4 subwoofers from 8-12", or two 15" subwoofers.
Street 2 would be broken up into two classes in the same manner Street 2A - 1-2 subwoofers from 8-12" or one 15" Street 2B - 2-4 subwoofers from 8-12" or two 15" subwoofers.
No walls will be allowed in any street class and the equipment may not extend above the back glass in a truck. Enclosures in automotibiles will be installed in the trunk or in the appropriate cargo compartment. 2 seater vehicles such as the EXP or the CRX the cargo compartment will be described as the area in the rear hatch that is under the factory cover and up to the strut tower braces. (as in the enclosed area in the CRX SI, where the factory panels go) This means that the enclosure can not extend all the way to the back of the seats or the B Pillar as they are currently doing. This would limit enclosure size to that of normally attainable street installs (not high budge enclosures)
No minivans, cargo vans, or trucks with cut throughs in street.
Pro Street Will use all of the existing rules for the current street class except upgraded alternators will be allowed, upgraded alternators will be allowed, and the car will be allowed to run during spl testing. However, batteries must fit into the factory battery tray as mentioned above in the street classifications.
There would be one additional class for the Pro-street that is not currently included. Vehicles can be walled off in the Pro-Street-Wall class. Pro-Street-Wall would have a 1-2 and a 2-4 class with the pro-street rules as outlined above and those currently used for the street class.
Super Street would be reduced to 3 classes. Super Street 1 - one subwoofer walled off or not walled off. All Super Street rules remain unchanged.
Super Street 2 - 2-4 subwoofers walled off or not all in the same class
Super Street 3 - 5+ subwoofers walled off or not all in the same class
All super street rules would remain unchanged.
Extreme would have the same classes as Super Street with no changes to the current rules EXCEPT- Quad Voice Coil Subwoofers would remain in the Extreme class. This is the Extreme class and as far as I'm concerned is as close to anything goes as there is.
Quads would remain in Extreme.
16 volt batteries and higher voltage charging systems would remain in super street and Extreme by not street or pro street.
Street competitors who place in the top three at a regional tripple points event and/or finals would be required to move up to pro-street the following year. (and/or their vehicle)
Now I know that this post has been way too long already. However, if you have stuck with me this long, then bear with me just another minute or two while I throw out some of my rationalization for this.
I believe that these classifications gives everyone a pretty level playing field and will inspire people to be creative, while allowing a competition format for true beginners. The MSRP limit on amplifiers in those classes will encourage manufacturers to make powerful amplifiers that are affordable which will further serve to level the playing field.
A format such as this one will attract true newbies as there will be basic installations which they will be able to compete with in such a format. They will also see other systems which they could progress into once they have "been bitten by the SPL bug" so there is an attainable next level of performance they can go for.
Super Street and Extreme vehicles tend to have numbers very close as far as total SPL within each division anyway so limiting to fewer classes will make sense as well. They will have to strive harder to be competitive and that is what we all want to see.
I left single woofer classes in Extreme and Super Street because I know of many people who find single subwoofer records to be highly regarded accomplishments and that is definitely a bragging right to be had for any manufacturer and/or competitor. But thet no-wall classification to me does not warrant separate classes. If my memory is correct I believe I outlined a total of 16(due to pro street being what is currently the street classes and the addition of the two walled off Pro-street classes) classes that would span a wide variety of systems. I feel that the pro-street classes with the modifications I made would be a godo step up from the street classes that I outlined and would help to bridge the huge jump from the current street class to the current super street class. Everything from 1-2 subs in a sealed enclosure all the way up to extreme classes. It is diversed, and much more evenly stepped then the current classes. This would add 4 classes, but would eliminate the ministreet classes and would provide a more simple format to progress from one class to another. While combining some of the Super Street and Extreme classes which In my humble opinion there are simply too many of compared to today's market.
Since there are a number of people who will be re-building or making changes from running quad coils then this will be a good time to re-vamp the competition format to create greater diversity and begin attracting more new comers, manufacturers, and retailers. I believe that a format such as this would be widely recieved and I know that I would certainly be drawn to such events.
I know these are extreme changes, but to get to a point where DB Drag is truly diverse and attracting beginners into the sport I truly believe this is the direction DB Drag needs to go. We need new blood in order to get manufacturer and retail support back to where it used to be and in my opinion this is an aggressive format that can be effectively marketed to a wide audience and still leave DB Drag in a position to be the most extreme SPL format available today.
Your consideration is greatly appreciated, and I thank everyone to take the time to bear with me through such an extremely long post. I hope no one has gone cross eyed yet.
[ 12-03-2003, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Chris Dilbeck ]
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: I stopped reading after no minivans in street...why would that be benefitial at all to the class?
That could easily be ammended if people feel that there is enough need/justification for minivans in street, but if there were then I would expect the enclosure to stay behind the C-pillar or in the designated cargo area behind the factory seats. (not folded, not removed from the vehicle)
The reason that I stated that before is that we never wind up doing installs of subwoofers in vans or minivans unless they are truly being designed for competition systems, and that really isn't the point of this street class.
BTW, in my opinion if you stopped reading at that point then you missed the best parts of what was outlined.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
You have some very good points - I couldnt have said any better.
One point I must focus on is the value placed on equipment is a total no no, this is an international sport the value of an item varies around the world. We pay a premium already on products and the value of the Rand varies so often it wouldnt work from month to month. It has to be a measured item.
But the ideas are there, I personally wouldnt like to change divisions now Rather tighten the existing to make it more difficult for pros to be in the amature divisions. How would everyone feel if a world No one tenis player decides to play in the under 21 division. (just an example)
-------------------- dB Drags South Africa. Posts: 152 | From: Johannesburg - South Africa | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- "I wish I could change my user name" Zero Hurtz Car Audio Forum http://zerohurtz.tripod.com/ Posts: 380 | From: Calgary | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Chris Dilbeck: I would expect the enclosure to stay behind the C-pillar or in the designated cargo area behind the factory seats. (not folded, not removed from the vehicle)
__________________________________________________ Why penalize those of us who own Mini-vans that allow for more room either by removing the 3rd row or folding it flat? __________________________________________________
The reason that I stated that before is that WE never wind up doing installs of subwoofers in vans or minivans unless they are truly being designed for competition systems, and that really isn't the point of this street class
__________________________________________________ Who is/are WE??? I see mini-vans with beat in them everyday. __________________________________________________
quote:Originally posted by *1LOWSUV*: [QB__________________________________________________ Who is/are WE??? I see mini-vans with beat in them everyday. __________________________________________________ [/QB]
i do too....when i was workin at a shop we did a install in a astro .....but.....the box was in the cargo area.....this thing was LOUD.....no joke......all the seats were left in
what hes talkin about is taking for say the family caravan and removing all the seats from the C pilar on back....in the current rules u can do this.....sooo.....how many family caravans pull into a shop and ask them to put a 20 cubic foot box in it for 2 15s
posted
I see alot of ported boxes in beginner cars. What do you consider a bandpass box. they sell them at best buy and circuit city. those are beginner systems. I would have to say that there are more beginners with ported boxes then sealed. and the price on amps should not be inforced.
I am a seller of car audio too. So if ebay has a better price. then thats what the customer is going to want to buy. You just have to offer a good price. and back it up with great service. I see car audio shops offering an unbeleiveable price on some amps. but some people are willing to buy because the like the service that they recieve. so setting a msrp is not the answer. because if a competitor is willing to buy an amp from you for $599 msrp. dosen't mean that i have to buy that same amp from you. I can go online and get a better more powerful amp for that same price. I am not sure if I am getting my point across well. but those are my feelings on this matter. Everything else I thought was good.
posted
I see alot of ported boxes in beginner cars. What do you consider a bandpass box. they sell them at best buy and circuit city. those are beginner systems. I would have to say that there are more beginners with ported boxes then sealed. and the price on amps should not be inforced.
I am a seller of car audio too. So if ebay has a better price. then thats what the customer is going to want to buy. You just have to offer a good price. and back it up with great service. I see car audio shops offering an unbeleiveable price on some amps. but some people are willing to buy because the like the service that they recieve. so setting a msrp is not the answer. because if a competitor is willing to buy an amp from you for $599 msrp. dosen't mean that i have to buy that same amp from you. I can go online and get a better more powerful amp for that same price. I am not sure if I am getting my point across well. but those are my feelings on this matter. Everything else I thought was good.
quote:Originally posted by Team Urban ArtFx: I see alot of ported boxes in beginner cars. What do you consider a bandpass box. they sell them at best buy and circuit city. those are beginner systems. I would have to say that there are more beginners with ported boxes then sealed. and the price on amps should not be inforced.
I am a seller of car audio too. So if ebay has a better price. then thats what the customer is going to want to buy. You just have to offer a good price. and back it up with great service. I see car audio shops offering an unbeleiveable price on some amps. but some people are willing to buy because the like the service that they recieve. so setting a msrp is not the answer. because if a competitor is willing to buy an amp from you for $599 msrp. dosen't mean that i have to buy that same amp from you. I can go online and get a better more powerful amp for that same price. I am not sure if I am getting my point across well. but those are my feelings on this matter. Everything else I thought was good.
I do agree that a lot of basic set ups us ports so why should they get punished. . The thing I don't get is why some of you pro's insist on competing in street classes. You are killing the sport. That is why there are SS and Extreme classes. Or are you afraid of getting your ass handed to you. I am not in any way saying that these classes are easy. However the competition at your local events are. GIVE THEM A CHANCE
And he was not talking about the price you can get it for on e-bay. MSRP - that price is set by the manufactor. And I do think limiting the price is the best way to keep you guys out.
quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: I stopped reading after no minivans in street...why would that be benefitial at all to the class?
agreed.. I have an astro... if they are banned from street, I'm done with dB Drag.. I can't afford to run out and buy another vehicle just for dB Drag.. Like was stated before... they are already at a disadvantage vs. CRX's and smaller cars, why ban them?.. pointless
--------------------
2005 Street C 7th Place - 152.8 in a Chevy Astro Posts: 521 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Team 8 Track: "No ported enclosures" in Street A??
"No higher than 45 hrtz" in both A&B??
I dont agree with that at all!!!!
The classes you are accustomed to seeing as street are what I designated as Pro STreet in this scenario. You don't seem to understand, what I outlined in the street class above is not designed for you. That classification for street is designed to be true street competitors, not what is currently in the street class. Everyone which is currently in street could still compete without any changes whatsoever in what I described as the Pro-Street class as it is unmodified with the exception of a couple of items.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Team Urban ArtFx: I see alot of ported boxes in beginner cars. What do you consider a bandpass box. they sell them at best buy and circuit city. those are beginner systems. I would have to say that there are more beginners with ported boxes then sealed. and the price on amps should not be inforced.
I am a seller of car audio too. So if ebay has a better price. then thats what the customer is going to want to buy. You just have to offer a good price. and back it up with great service. I see car audio shops offering an unbeleiveable price on some amps. but some people are willing to buy because the like the service that they recieve. so setting a msrp is not the answer. because if a competitor is willing to buy an amp from you for $599 msrp. dosen't mean that i have to buy that same amp from you. I can go online and get a better more powerful amp for that same price. I am not sure if I am getting my point across well. but those are my feelings on this matter. Everything else I thought was good.
I made no mention of what you can purchase the amplifier for online. I did not put a limit on cost, I made the limit on the manufacturers MSRP, the published MSRP not what a person can actually buy it for. Therefore using published MSRP in US dollars it will not be effected by online versus store buying, or foreign currency exchange rates.
With that rule it doesn't matter what the customer paid for an amp, the key is the published Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. There is a big difference between what you can get something for and what the MSRP is. That would keep someone from buying a used monster amplifier that retailed at $2k for $599 because it still had an MSRP that exceeded the established guideline. Do you understand my intent now?
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: I stopped reading after no minivans in street...why would that be benefitial at all to the class?
agreed.. I have an astro... if they are banned from street, I'm done with dB Drag.. I can't afford to run out and buy another vehicle just for dB Drag.. Like was stated before... they are already at a disadvantage vs. CRX's and smaller cars, why ban them?.. pointless
You guys didn't read far enough along and missed the point. What you consider as the street class now would be called Pro-Street under in this scenario. I didn't make any changes to the existing guidelines, with the exception of allowing the vehicle to run and have one upgraded alternator in the factory location, and I added two street classes as Pro-STreet classes.
What is now the street class is virtually unchanged and nothing is banned that is currently allowed. But it is called pro-street. What I outlined as the street class is not aimed at anyone currently competing in Street, they will be Pro-street in this scenario. Street would be new classes for beginners.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Team Urban ArtFx: I see alot of ported boxes in beginner cars. What do you consider a bandpass box. they sell them at best buy and circuit city. those are beginner systems. I would have to say that there are more beginners with ported boxes then sealed. and the price on amps should not be inforced.
I would consider bandpass boxes the same as vented enclosurses as they must have some form of vent, generally play a limited frequency range, and are designed for higher gain at a given frequency or group of frequencies. That is an excellent point to bring up though. I think that they are more in the spirit of ported enclosures though.
Guys, these are just thoughts and for those of you currently competing in street, your class would be called Pro-Street now. What I oulined for Street above is not for you. Current members or previous members of DB Drag are not what I was targeting with this "new" street class.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
About the msrp. I don't think wayne wants to sit around and find msrp for every amp that is made. plus some people use old amps that are not even made anymore. it would not work. to much work gathering all the amp info and then trying to inforce it.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
