quote:Originally posted by RFLWagon: Why........everyone has a VAN.....they are cheap and you can sleep in them and more people can fit into one and HELL you get the point!
I have a trunk.. why not make a rule so it's easier for me to get loud
lol.. jk.. realistically people are always going to find the "best" vehicle and use it.. if it's a crx then they'll use a crx, if its a van than they will use a van..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sid Grice: 3-8e If the vehicle is equiped with "third row seating", then the “normal use” restriction for the third row seating is waived.
Additional Guidelines:
· This waiver only applies to vehicles that have “third row seats” located behind the primary and secondary row of seats. The dBDRA defines “third row seating” as a third set of OEM seats, that are designed to be removed from or folded within the vehicle’s passenger compartment.
· Third row Seats, which are not removable, may be folded in order to accommodate the sound system.
quote:Originally posted by Sid Grice: A passenger vehicle is designed to carry passengers. Even though the manufacturers are trying to keep up with truck sales, by allowing the alteration of an interior to allow more cargo space, the normal (non altered) state is for all seats to be in the secured and upright position.
Ok, First you make the point that my third row seats (Which fold down flat) are meant for passengers and now your saying "Third row Seats, which are not removable, may be folded in order to accommodate the sound system."
quote:Originally posted by Sid Grice: 3-8e If the vehicle is equiped with "third row seating", then the “normal use” restriction for the third row seating is waived.
Additional Guidelines:
· This waiver only applies to vehicles that have “third row seats” located behind the primary and secondary row of seats. The dBDRA defines “third row seating” as a third set of OEM seats, that are designed to be removed from or folded within the vehicle’s passenger compartment.
· Third row Seats, which are not removable, may be folded in order to accommodate the sound system.
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: Wayne has stated that you cannot place a box ontop of a folded seat.
I know the vehicle in quesiton. In that case it is unfortunate. Rules can't be made to fit every single vehicle and every single competitor.
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I guess I'll just pick the answer that "Gets me louder"
posted
this folding seat arguament applies to other vehicle besides vans. I know that several station wagons also have seasts that fold into the floor. Also, some of the bigger ford SUVs have power folding 3rd row seats that fold into the floor.
The 3rd row seating definately needs to be addressed. There are too many vehicle that are unfairly affected by the language of the current rules.
It is doubtful that the affected vehicles could ever be as loud as a "world champion" vehicle. SO, this isn't about trying to "even the field." this is about about getting more people to be able to compete, at a high level, with their regular-use vehicles.
For example, I now drive a Mercedes E320 Wagon. It has 3rd row seating that folds into the floor. For me to comply with the rules, as currently written, I only have about 1.7 cu.ft of air to work with. Additionally, the area that I have to work with only allows a pair of 8s, maybe 10s to fit. If I could use the cargo area, much like that of an explorer, I could put my 4 12s back there. The diffence in SPL between these 2 setups is between 10-15 dB!!!
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by *1LOWSUV*: Ok, First you make the point that my third row seats (Which fold down flat) are meant for passengers and now your saying "Third row Seats, which are not removable, may be folded in order to accommodate the sound system."
So you tell me how this "Clears" things up?
At first, this discussion began (in the other post) by talking about sedans, and the ability to place equipment in top of rear seats that were folded. The arguments were transfered to this post, after the original post was closed.
Also, you have made great arguments for the need in rule clarification. In turn, I posted what I think would allow your suggestion to be considered.
posted
bump......this is an important topic that needs a rule revision.
keep the responses coming
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Maybe a point that should be made is that this is about Rear seats that fold down flat to accomodate more cargo. It should be no different then Jump seats in a Truck that fold up.
posted
exactly......the rule should apply to 2nd row rear seating. It should not apply to jumpp seats ro 3rd row seating.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: exactly......the rule should apply to 2nd row rear seating. It should not apply to jumpp seats ro 3rd row seating.
Exactly! With my 3rd row down and my second row still in the normal position (Upright) even though they do fold forward, My enclosure would still be behind the REAR doorjambs.
posted
I didn't really read the whole post, so I might be repeating something someone has already said.
I think that only third row seating should be removable, not second row seating. I have a Pontiac Aztek which has removable second row seats, which means I can take them out, and if I want to, I can buy 4 JBL Crowns for street B. I don't think that is fair. I also think that the fold down seats, in the third row only, should be treated like jump seats.
On another note, I think that all subs, amps, and batteries should be behind the door jams. I also have a CRX, and I can put two Zapco 4kw's in it for street B, along with my Stinger 1700, because they are allowing us to put them in front of the door jams.
Just a couple of thoughts, from someone who can benefit from the way the rules are now.
Alex
-------------------- Alejandro "Alex" Avila Sound Decision SPL Team - team captain http://www.sounddecisioninc.com Posts: 1375 | From: Montgomery, IL U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
just take the seats out and run without them, it works in Europe, if you dont believe me just check out the post with the pics of the street car with the backseat removed. You can see bare metal, which is not supposed to be happening either. They need to enforce the same rules across the board, or all the European "World Records" are gonna keep getting looked upon as shady by us.
-------------------- ---JASON SMITH--- Man its been a long time Posts: 906 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Mar 2000
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my mom owns a old "mid 80's" sttion wagon, it has third row seating that folds down into the floor. As the rules are...you CAN NOT put any enclosure in this car. the seat opens up starting all the way back, at the tail gate.
BUT, at the same time.....if I can put a box on there, I could run almost a 20CF enclosure...in street.
so it kinda sucks both ways....I bet alot of SUV folks would condier getting wagon like this...if this rule changs...."doulble enclosure size, with almost the same sized interior"
I like it.....I always wanted to "drag" the wagon....
quote:Originally posted by Sid Grice: 3-8e If the vehicle is equiped with "third row seating", then the “normal use” restriction for the third row seating is waived.
Additional Guidelines:
· This waiver only applies to vehicles that have “third row seats” located behind the primary and secondary row of seats. The dBDRA defines “third row seating” as a third set of OEM seats, that are designed to be removed from or folded within the vehicle’s passenger compartment.
· Third row Seats, which are not removable, may be folded in order to accommodate the sound system.
I think that just about clears it up!
For Who?!? I'm still not clear and was really blinded when I was told My 3rd row of seats which folds down flat could not have an enclosure placed on it while it was in the flat position
I just hope somebody working on the rules looks at this thread.
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: They simply clarified a gray area with the rule for mini-trucks. I would guess there was previously a problem, and the part about jump-seats was added to CLARIFY what the intent of the rule was.
PROBLEM! They're jump seats that are meant to be sat on but can be folded up flat
Someone showed up to a show and COULDN"T demonstrate they were functional and the next thing you know Wayne made it Legal to not have to be able to fold them down!
So tell me, whats the difference between a flat folding jump-seat and a flat folding rear seat?
This is the exact thing I was trying to post about a month ago when I made a post on "Truck Classes".
Noone has yet to give me a good answer except the good old "we cant accomodate every vehicle to its own rules".
Actually since my rear bench seat in my truck was factory made to fold flat, for the sole intention of allowing more cargo, perhaps I should be allowed to put my box on it too? I think taking it out is the better option though.
posted
I think that all extended cab trucks should be alowed to fold up or down there rear seats to acomidate there box just like the rule is for the small ones with jump seats.......also i think there needs to be a rule that stats 3rd row seating cant be folded or removed if it is a factory option to acomidate a box so long as the box is still behind the c-pillar............
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
posted
This is just a hypothetical...... Say someone has a 2-door explorer and the rear seat just so happens to fold down. And let's say that the chair folds down the the level of the cargo area......and let's say tht it makes the floor area basicaly flat from the rear hatch all the way to the back of the front seat....
And now for the big question???????
Can I place am enlosure on top of the rear seats which now have folded down and is at the level of the cargo area and lets say the box goes all the way to the backs of the front seat and again behind the rear most doorjambs?
I know that sounds kind of winded, but this is a perfect example of pushing the rules if a rule like the one you are asking for opens the door to......
Again I know what exactly you are asking for the 3rd seat folded in to the floor....but ....it is almost the same example.
By the way this is just my opinion on this matter.....
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2008 Street A
quote:Originally posted by manauta: This is just a hypothetical...... Say someone has a 2-door explorer and the rear seat just so happens to fold down. And let's say that the chair folds down the the level of the cargo area......and let's say tht it makes the floor area basicaly flat from the rear hatch all the way to the back of the front seat....
And now for the big question???????
Can I place am enlosure on top of the rear seats which now have folded down and is at the level of the cargo area and lets say the box goes all the way to the backs of the front seat and again behind the rear most doorjambs?
I know that sounds kind of winded, but this is a perfect example of pushing the rules if a rule like the one you are asking for opens the door to......
Again I know what exactly you are asking for the 3rd seat folded in to the floor....but ....it is almost the same example.
By the way this is just my opinion on this matter.....
Well most Suburbans (1 example) do just this but I would think the wording should should state that the Enclosure has to stay Behind the second row of seats and even though they can fold down, you would have to show that your design would not interfere with them folding back-up.
This would give you more room but also keep you behind the second (rear doors) line.
I bought my Suburban (example) for the fact it had added room. Making it a 2 seater by folding second and third row seating would not be right in my opinion.
Now folding down the rear seat still leaves me seating for 5 adults and I could also fold the second row down during my run and the Enclosue would not interfere with it's function in any way.
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