posted
I don't see a problem here. Most dealers don't stock high dollar merchandise because it only sells once in awhile so it is dead stock ot have...the same is true for most subs and amps used in dbdrag. Also you can't limit MSRP becasue teh manufacturer can set it to be whatever they want...you can't limit power ratings becuase again the manufacturer can set it to whatever they want, you can't limit output because then someone would have to teste very amp out there to see how much power it does at all ohm loads, you can limit number of channels...thats about it...I would say the rule should stay the same and if there is any changes if could be changed to a SINGLE amp wiht a max of two channels instead of 4 channels...but even then the rules about only having one battery is what allows the power limit... also I don't have the money for a 4kw but I do think that people who already have them shouldn't be screwed over...I mean people were bitching about having quads that would need to be reconed if quads were banned...well a couple hundred for recones is nothing compared to $2200 wasted on a 4kw that you couldn't even sell because after the rule is changed there would be no market for them...
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
2 TF One 10" + 1 American Bass 1000.1 + Odyssey 1750 Posts: 2965 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
the zapco is available. I thought about buying a pair of them prior to finals. Apparently, they are custom built for each order. I called with only 1 week to go before finals, and they couldn't build the amps in time.
I also agree that the current 4kw owners shouldn't be screwed either.
if the rules say that 4 channels of stereo amp power are legit, then that should be the limiting factor, not the number of amps. if 4 channels of stereo amplication is currently legit in Street A, then allow 2 channel of bridged or mono-block power in Street A. double these numbers for Street B!!!!
this would keep it simple! more amps, but simple.
I still like shedluv's proposition 1 as the best proposal so far!!!
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
if 4 channels of stereo amplication is currently legit in Street A, then allow 2 channel of bridged or mono-block power in Street A. double these numbers for Street B!!!! QB][/QUOTE]
now this is truly the only way i see the rules could be changed if we made a change, why don't we all come out and say the 4kw started this and we don't like it, and now other companies are following suit. we keep beating around the bush, theres no reason to, we all know what the problem is and there are easy ways to solve it but we wanna be nice. its gettin old. wayne, i think you should either set a rule soon or just leave it and say so.
-------------------- 2007 1996 Toyota Corolla 2 Digital Designs 9515s 1 Incriminator Audio 40.1 1 Half Wall Team Droppin Hz
Posts: 2063 | From: South Bend, IN | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
why don't we all come out and say the 4kw started this and we don't like it, and now other companies are following suit. we keep beating around the bush, theres no reason to, we all know what the problem is and there are easy ways to solve it but we wanna be nice. its gettin old. wayne, i think you should either set a rule soon or just leave it and say so.[/QB][/QUOTE]
This is the truth, the 4kw is an amp that was made to specs around certain loopholes. Most true street guys would not think of this amp for street beating! I tried to get one myself from my local dealer and he basiclly said no he could't get it. So where do I go to get this amp as my local dealer for zapco and the only one in the state says he cannot get it? Just my .02.
William Williams
-------------------- Member of Team Triple Threat Posts: 169 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Billy Bones: why don't we all come out and say the 4kw started this and we don't like it, and now other companies are following suit. we keep beating around the bush, theres no reason to, we all know what the problem is and there are easy ways to solve it but we wanna be nice. its gettin old. wayne, i think you should either set a rule soon or just leave it and say so.
This is the truth, the 4kw is an amp that was made to specs around certain loopholes. Most true street guys would not think of this amp for street beating! I tried to get one myself from my local dealer and he basiclly said no he could't get it. So where do I go to get this amp as my local dealer for zapco and the only one in the state says he cannot get it? Just my .02.
William Williams[/QB][/QUOTE]
How to get one? PAY the dealer and tell him BRING ME DAT DANG ! He will call Zapco and they will start building it ! Easy as this ! Its not "custom made" (when I understand right) its more "buildet by order" because its not an article what lays in big quantities somewhere in the shelves...
You CAN get a "customized" version, but this is a different thing. This "customizing" is officially offered into the Zapco Prospect.
Üüüühh!!! Michael
-------------------- www.sqpl.de I´m a Kraut,and I want it loud! Üüüühh!!!
posted
All of you that are saying you can't get a 4KW are just plain lying. If there is anyone on here that wants one call or email me and I will get you one in around 2-3 weeks. I'm not a dealer or anything like that either but any Zapco dealer can order one.
posted
The answer to this issue is to simple to me: Enduro. Thirty seconds off a 4KW and SIZZLE! But my 8100D will still be going strong Posts: 494 | From: So Cal | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by orphan440: All of you that are saying you can't get a 4KW are just plain lying. If there is anyone on here that wants one call or email me and I will get you one in around 2-3 weeks. I'm not a dealer or anything like that either but any Zapco dealer can order one.
Lying, well all I am saying that when I myself treid to get one ordered in six months ago the "local" zapco dealer told me that he could not get it. Maybe he misunderstood that there was a wait or something like that. I don't want one anymore because of the stink they are causing right now. But I beleive they are availble to all that are willing to pay the price and I also say they should not be banned or blacklisted. If you have it use it, if you don't have one, buy one. once again just my opinion.
William Williams
-------------------- Member of Team Triple Threat Posts: 169 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:...I don't want one anymore because of the stink they are causing right now.
Yep, there's always jealousy towards those at the top, and right now it's about the Zapco 4Kw because it is the best, if the US Amps 4K would've been the Zapco killer it was said to be, it would be all about that amp. I believe if other companies offered a monster 4 channel amp like the Zapco there wouldn't be so much hoopla about this amp. So is it the cost, or the power that is so upsetting? And those who are still frustrated by the way Zapco decided to configure their biggest 4 channel amp, it is a retail item just as it sits, and personally I won't be suprised if Zapco releases an even larger powerhouse all on a single board in the near future.
If the idea passes to allow 4 channels of amplification without limiting the number of amps in Street 1-2, it will be legal to run TWO JBL A6000GTi amps, IF they really are only two non: bridged/seriesed/paralleled channels within the heatsink. If that's the case, I can hear the screams already!
I believe the single battery limitation is the best idea, or even better, have a limited amount of legal CCA's so that those with the smaller cars/batteries may add another just to keep the CCA ratings even across the board, and since there are only 10-15 really large batteries available, it would be easy enough to verify their rating as accurate by testing. It takes power to make power, limit the supply voltage, and you effectively limit the amplifier power.
[ 01-24-2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Q ]
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
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Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by orphan440: All of you that are saying you can't get a 4KW are just plain lying. If there is anyone on here that wants one call or email me and I will get you one in around 2-3 weeks. I'm not a dealer or anything like that either but any Zapco dealer can order one.
i can get one, let me go rob the local bank first
-------------------- 2007 1996 Toyota Corolla 2 Digital Designs 9515s 1 Incriminator Audio 40.1 1 Half Wall Team Droppin Hz
Posts: 2063 | From: South Bend, IN | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Dr.Loudness: I don't see big problem in too powerfull amps.
Just amp alone can't add to much dB's if it is powered by one battery. Ask top competitors what is the margin between big amps and normal amps.
It can make small difference if you are fighting for world champion! But normal competitor with knowledge can make better box to beat that amp!!!!
Here it is from a "Top Compeditor". 4KW's gain on average 1.5 dbs over a D2. In street 3-4 that would have been the difference between not qualifying and 4th place.
phil
Posts: 2679 | From: unknown bowels of the underworld | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Billy Bones: why don't we all come out and say the 4kw started this and we don't like it, and now other companies are following suit. we keep beating around the bush, theres no reason to, we all know what the problem is and there are easy ways to solve it but we wanna be nice. its gettin old. wayne, i think you should either set a rule soon or just leave it and say so.
This is the truth, the 4kw is an amp that was made to specs around certain loopholes. Most true street guys would not think of this amp for street beating! I tried to get one myself from my local dealer and he basiclly said no he could't get it. So where do I go to get this amp as my local dealer for zapco and the only one in the state says he cannot get it? Just my .02.
William Williams[/QB][/QUOTE]
wayne please listen to this man.
Posts: 2679 | From: unknown bowels of the underworld | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by orphan440: All of you that are saying you can't get a 4KW are just plain lying. If there is anyone on here that wants one call or email me and I will get you one in around 2-3 weeks. I'm not a dealer or anything like that either but any Zapco dealer can order one.
I can't get one.. I just plain can't afford it.. hence why I was trying to do street class..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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have you seen the jgl/crown amp in person? It is SOOOOOOO huge! I can't even imagine finding room for one of those amps in my Explorer, let alone multiples of those amps.
At DB Drag finals, JBL had one in the bed of a Ford Truck (i think). if memory serves me correctly, there wasn't alot of room on either side of the amp. plus, it is fairly square in shape, which causes other mounting problems.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The picture we just saw.,proves my point. If amplifier casing is 80 percent of amp weight.,why is the amp so large? Show me some streetable amps that are the size of a cocacola can.,and are ten thousand watts. No.,you are unable? Then something besides the casing is at work here. We are looking at limiting the amplifier power. So.,we say that no amplifier may be in excess of 12 pounds.,for street A. So a manufacturer makes a smaller casing in order to limit the weight.,but this leads to amplifier failure due to over heating.,and a competitors amplifier shuts down at a critical time due to over heating. You see adding a weight limit.,shifts the focus from monster amps.,towards amplifiers that can do the maximum power in a small size. What do you prefer., 1- a 32 thousand watt amp that is the size three cubic feet. 2- a one thousand watt amp that is the size of a cocacola can. What do you think will promote amp sales more? A 60 thousand dollar .,three cubic foot amp., or a two hundred dollar .,one thousand watt amp.,that fits in a cocacola can? You say over and over that you want the sport to grow.,that you whish to bring in more and more to the sport.,yes? A huge amount of kids can pay two hundred dollars for a one thousand watt amp that fits in a cocacola can. How many of those same kids can pay sixty thousand dollars for a thirty two thousand watt amp? Please place a cap on amp power.,or soon only the rich will think of this sport. Today it is amps that cost four and six thousand dollars.,how soon before we have amps like those mentioned above? Placing a cap on amplifier power.,makes the manufacturer look for a loophole in the area of.,ta.,da.,effieciency. You see: No amplifier may exceed 12 pounds., maximum length 14 inches.,width ten inches.,ht three inches. This places a limit on amp growth.,the only other option is to make a "size limited" amp produce more power.,how? Well we can look at the internals of an amp and make improvements.,the result? More bang for the buck. Who wins? The consumer. The distributor. The retailer. Db Drag. Why? Cheaper.,faster.,better. A smaller.,more powerfull amp is wanted by all. More amps fit on a truck.,reducing shipment costs. Less space used.,resulting in more retail space available for the distributor and the retailer. Competitors are all using the same SIZE amp. This shifts the focus back to where it belongs.,box building and tuning. This sends those with big and deep pockets crying.,because.,now.,they have to play fair.,they have to use the same equipment as the kid mowing lawns after class. Please consider this rule.,for introduction .,in 2004.,this gives time to those that have investments in other types of equipment.,to a.,sell it.,or b.,go play in super street.,and leave the street division as it was intended.,for newbies.,NOT.,the rich.
-------------------- You are what you read. Un happy with your life? Change what you read. Change what you are. Posts: 206 | From: Nobodys damn business but mine | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Russell, the MOST WEIGHT of the Amps is the HEATSINK, NOT the board!
And if an amps is extremly effective, it needs no real large heatsink for the cooling, so the weight of the heatsink can be decreased...
Some very powerful amps are weightin much less than others with less power.
The weight CAN'T BE any equal limitation.
Üüüühh!!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
You are correct.,but.,only up to a point.,limiting the size of the heatsink reaches a finite point.,I for one prefer mounting a six thousand watt amp the size of a coke can.,instead of the monster in the picture. And you can only reduce the size of the board up to a certain limit.,hence a size limit. My point was.,assume that a manufacturer makes a very small heat sink.,ok What is the worst thing to happen at a competition? Equipment failure. No one will buy an amp that will fail at any moment due to an extremely small heatsink. What I meant was.,measure those amps like the memphis 1000D., jbl and others.,set a maximum case size. You were mentioning that a manufacturer may produce two or more amps on a single board? Where is that idea if the case size is limited? And by limiting the maximum heat dispersion via a set wt factor.,where does that leave a manufacturer that tries to place double the output transistors in this limited case? Hmmm.,more transistors producing power equals more heat.,but if the heat dispersion is size limited.,where does that leave a manufacturer that adds more and more transistors to a limited size case? Heat failure. There is a set limit to how many transistors can work in a small case. Yes.,amplifiers vary in case format.,but here we are talking of a set limit. hmm.,like a set limit of cubic feet.,you are free to make a round.,triangular or pentagonal box. Why do you choose a square or rectangular box. you make maximum use of the available area.
-------------------- You are what you read. Un happy with your life? Change what you read. Change what you are. Posts: 206 | From: Nobodys damn business but mine | Registered: Jun 2002
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