..and a few others i'm sure. Then we make a rule that would pertain to these amps and others like them..........price is a bad thing to go by since like mentioned above the 9.0 is $2k but still very streetable.........basicaly any amp that does more than 3000wts rms (or can be made to) would be banned in street 1-2 and you could only use one of in street 3-4......then any amp that will produce more than 6000wts rms would be banned in street class altogether......
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: A heatsink that contains 2 discrete amplifiers should definately be considered as 2 amps instead of 1.
If we impose a rule to that effect, manufacturers could simply make a single, large pcb that has both amps on-board.
We would then need another method of determining eligibility. Power, non-bridged channels, size, fuse rating, and cost are some of the suggestions that have been floated regarding making this determination.
What do you suggest?
Fuse is the best bet and very easy to enforce There should be a 105-110 amp fuse limit for street 1-2 , that's good for 2000 watts for about 1 sec
Street 3-4 205-210 amp fuse limit, good for 4000 watts for 1 sec
That's cool. The only issue is that many high powered amps today have no internal fusing. How long will it take company XYZ to put dummy 40 amp fuses that render this idea useless?
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Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: A heatsink that contains 2 discrete amplifiers should definately be considered as 2 amps instead of 1.
If we impose a rule to that effect, manufacturers could simply make a single, large pcb that has both amps on-board.
We would then need another method of determining eligibility. Power, non-bridged channels, size, fuse rating, and cost are some of the suggestions that have been floated regarding making this determination.
What do you suggest?
Fuse is the best bet and very easy to enforce There should be a 105-110 amp fuse limit for street 1-2 , that's good for 2000 watts for about 1 sec
Street 3-4 205-210 amp fuse limit, good for 4000 watts for 1 sec
What about class A/B amps?
Okay, right that's fair, NO. I have a 200 for my viper 2500. I personally don't see a problem with the zapco amp. You have to pay to play and these people payed(No sponsorships in street class). Now that these amps are smoking everybody else, its time to ban them. That is what i'm saving for right now, a 4kw. Why caus e they have been proven streetable and can make insane amounts of power. Few amps should be banned, the crown being one. Why put a cap on the sport. I kinda wanna see a street car break the 160 mark.
Do some research on fuses
What is that supposed to mean? I had a 150 amp breaker in my car and it popped constaly. Upgraded to a 200. I know my viper draws a lot of current and is inefficent.
You pop a 150 amp fuse because of your electrical problems and not because your amp> Your voltage is most likly less than 10 volts causing you amp to draw more current than normal witch can damage your amp and your alt.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: A heatsink that contains 2 discrete amplifiers should definately be considered as 2 amps instead of 1.
If we impose a rule to that effect, manufacturers could simply make a single, large pcb that has both amps on-board.
We would then need another method of determining eligibility. Power, non-bridged channels, size, fuse rating, and cost are some of the suggestions that have been floated regarding making this determination.
What do you suggest?
Fuse is the best bet and very easy to enforce There should be a 105-110 amp fuse limit for street 1-2 , that's good for 2000 watts for about 1 sec
Street 3-4 205-210 amp fuse limit, good for 4000 watts for 1 sec
That's cool. The only issue is that many high powered amps today have no internal fusing. How long will it take company XYZ to put dummy 40 amp fuses that render this idea useless?
I'm not talking about at the amp I'm talking under the hood the fuses at the amp don't mean jack
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: O ure talking about burst rateing of a fuse. How it will handle way more current then rated for a short time? It still has a limit.
ALL4SPL..........it has always been and always will have people that push the grey area.I know it dont make it right and i dont agree with it but thats the way it is.
You use a power limit. And you put a current gauge on the speaker wire exiting the amplifier to measure the current that the amp is producing. Put the gauge on Peak hold, and after the run if the guage reads over the amount of power set for the class you are DQ'ed. Then you can use a more powerful amp but better know your volume and amp very well, or use an amp that will not produce more than the limit. This way you get a consistant reading of power every time and level the playing field like I always hear.
This has to work, I dont see a way around it.
You tell me.
Eric
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Former Super Street Deathmatch World Champions Former Super Street 3-4 World Record Holders Former Super Street 3-4 2nd Place World Champions Former Super Street 5+ 2nd Place World Champions 3 Time DBDrag Street World Record Holder 3x MECA World Champion and Record Holder And Helped a Few Break some Records along the way! And Got some help.
posted
My response to 3,000 amps. I know the 9.0 has been rumored to produce as much as 3,000 watts. If there is a limit, it needs to be more than 3,000 watts.
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dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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You use a power limit. And you put a current gauge on the speaker wire exiting the amplifier to measure the current that the amp is producing. Put the gauge on Peak hold, and after the run if the guage reads over the amount of power set for the class you are DQ'ed. Then you can use a more powerful amp but better know your volume and amp very well, or use an amp that will not produce more than the limit. This way you get a consistant reading of power every time and level the playing field like I always hear.
This has to work, I dont see a way around it.
You tell me.
Eric
The current coming out of an amplifier is impedance specific. Those running 0.7 ohm loads have a great deal more current that those running 4 ohm loads. Voltage is also impedance specific as well. It is only voltage X current that is not impedance specific.
Example of limiting to 30 amps of output current:
0.7 ohm load = 21 volts out of amp, 30 amps = 21X30 = 630 watts
4 ohm load = 120 volts out of amp, 30 amps = 120X30 = 3600 watts
Limiting current won't work, and limiting voltage won't work for the same reasons, they're both impedance specific.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
it would not be practical to take simultaneous current and voltage reading of each competitor during each round of burps. can you imagine the hassle????
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
theres no easy way to solve it, it's obvious, i am betting there won't be any rule change, time to prepare to see lots of 4kw's, JBL/crowns, 6000xs? and whatever else.
-------------------- 2007 1996 Toyota Corolla 2 Digital Designs 9515s 1 Incriminator Audio 40.1 1 Half Wall Team Droppin Hz
Posts: 2063 | From: South Bend, IN | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
if they aren't going to make nay big changes, the least that should be changed is that a pair of strappable amps shall be considered as a single amplifier.
A simple change like that would really open up the door for some competition to the mega amps (4KW , 6000x, jbl/crown, D4, etc). then, amps like a pair of bd1500s, DD 9501s, visonik 900Xs, etc could compete with the monsters.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I want to say a very important reason AGAINST any MSRP-limit:
Don't forget:
- not any amp is available for a similar price around the world. (most amps in the states are cheaper than in europe, but there are also some in the other way, so there's a "non-linear price shift" aroung the world).
- not any amp is available in the U.S. at all, so not any amp HAS an MSRP (there are very powerful amps used in street here in europe which are not available in the states (and so they have no comparable MSRP)).
Üüüühh!!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: then, amps like a pair of bd1500s, DD 9501s, visonik 900Xs, etc could compete with the monsters.
But would a pair of 9501 not be a monster, too? Even a bigger one?
Legalizing more monsters will not solve the problem of the "spirit" of the monster amps.
Üüüühh!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I believe the ridiculous power numbers of 4000 watts for a dd9501 are at 24 volts. At the 13-14 volt range, I'm sure the power is reasonable. remember that above 16 volts, the power supply in the 9501 switches to unregulated.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: My response to 3,000 amps. I know the 9.0 has been rumored to produce as much as 3,000 watts. If there is a limit, it needs to be more than 3,000 watts.
The 9.0 does noppt produce more than 3000wts RMS....i have seen atleast 5 tests by mags puting it in the 2200wt-2600wt range rms wize....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
posted
We can debate the circuit boards and number of channels .,the simple fact is.,there are NO ten thousand watt amps that have less than one hundred grams.,total mass.,why?
Hmmm.
If limiting fuse size or power rating does not work.,what does? Hmmm.,has any one ever seen a one onze., ten thousand watt rms amp? No one has.,right? Why? Becuase.,it takes some large transistors and other devices to have a powerfull amp. The solution.,is.,a weight cap. Yes.,a weight scale is simple.,understandable by everyone. At a comp., you take a competitors amp.,place it on the certified DB Drag scale .,if it is past the limit.,bang.,bye.,bye.,next. There is no way to make a powerfull amplifier the size of a coca cola can. For example.,a small amp.,one hundred watts RMS.,is just a couple of pounds.,(place favorite name brand here) A medium amp is over five pounds and under 18 pounds(250 to 1000 watts) A large amp.,over 3000 watts .,is also over 15 or more pounds.,period. See.,a simple testing device is a scale. There is NO WAY.,to make a ten thousand watt RMS.,amp.,the size and weight of a postage stamp. Thank you. Russell E. Burrows.
-------------------- You are what you read. Un happy with your life? Change what you read. Change what you are. Posts: 206 | From: Nobodys damn business but mine | Registered: Jun 2002
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Up to 80% of the weight of an amp is the cooling cap - there are amps weighting twice as much than another although they have less than half the power...
Üüüühh!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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· Each subwoofer amplifier is limited to a maximum of 4 “non-bridged” output channels or 2 “bridged” output channels .
Cause that would keep the 4kw leagal...But is should be 4 stereo channels so a company couldn't have 4 class d's in one case. Well I guess there could if 2 amps were the left then the other 2 were right channel. But then when they chained them they would have to mono the signal and switch the phase of 2 out of the 4 amps. Which I guess this could all be done with a "bridge button" on the amp. But I guess if a company wanted to do that more power to them. Cause from what i have herd a 4kw is about the most power a single batt can handle.
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