quote:Originally posted by Gummi: [qb]and i would like a 15v limit in street classes
My wifes Explorer charges at 15.1V with a factory electrical system and a Wal-Mart battery. Whats up with that?
Sometimes my Ranger hits 15 volts when its cold out (Ranger's and Explorer's are very similiar)..
If I remember correctly, at AudioThunder last year (when it was freeezing cold on that last day) my voltage was at 15.1-15.2 when the judge clamped the multimeter on.
QB]
here in sweden there is some street cars with aftermarket variable voltage regulators on their stock alt. so they can boost up the voltage to 17.9v in a street car with a stock alt!...and stock battery.... thats not streetable!... please do something about this!
According to my knowledge, an aftermarket variable voltage regulator is not legal in the street class. I'm sure Wayne, or another certified judge could clarify, but to my knowledge this is not legal, nor has ever been legal in the street class here in the states. An aftermarket regulator is considered a modification and that is not legal in the street class.
Yes...since that is a modification to the stock electrical system other than a batt upgrade it is very illegal.....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Gummi: [qb]and i would like a 15v limit in street classes
My wifes Explorer charges at 15.1V with a factory electrical system and a Wal-Mart battery. Whats up with that?
Sometimes my Ranger hits 15 volts when its cold out (Ranger's and Explorer's are very similiar)..
If I remember correctly, at AudioThunder last year (when it was freeezing cold on that last day) my voltage was at 15.1-15.2 when the judge clamped the multimeter on.
QB]
here in sweden there is some street cars with aftermarket variable voltage regulators on their stock alt. so they can boost up the voltage to 17.9v in a street car with a stock alt!...and stock battery.... thats not streetable!... please do something about this!
According to my knowledge, an aftermarket variable voltage regulator is not legal in the street class. I'm sure Wayne, or another certified judge could clarify, but to my knowledge this is not legal, nor has ever been legal in the street class here in the states. An aftermarket regulator is considered a modification and that is not legal in the street class.
Yes...since that is a modification to the stock electrical system other than a batt upgrade it is very illegal.....
i can't find anything in the written rules from 2002 that say this.... or is this included in the rule: " ..... “beefing up” the OEM alternator is prohibited" ??
-------------------- Janne Jumisko
Nissan Silvia s14 1/4 mile: 14.627
Posts: 274 | From: Göteborg, Sweden | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gummi: [qb]and i would like a 15v limit in street classes
My wifes Explorer charges at 15.1V with a factory electrical system and a Wal-Mart battery. Whats up with that?
Sometimes my Ranger hits 15 volts when its cold out (Ranger's and Explorer's are very similiar)..
If I remember correctly, at AudioThunder last year (when it was freeezing cold on that last day) my voltage was at 15.1-15.2 when the judge clamped the multimeter on.
QB]
here in sweden there is some street cars with aftermarket variable voltage regulators on their stock alt. so they can boost up the voltage to 17.9v in a street car with a stock alt!...and stock battery.... thats not streetable!... please do something about this!
According to my knowledge, an aftermarket variable voltage regulator is not legal in the street class. I'm sure Wayne, or another certified judge could clarify, but to my knowledge this is not legal, nor has ever been legal in the street class here in the states. An aftermarket regulator is considered a modification and that is not legal in the street class.
Yes...since that is a modification to the stock electrical system other than a batt upgrade it is very illegal.....
i can't find anything in the written rules from 2002 that say this.... or is this included in the rule: " ..... “beefing up” the OEM alternator is prohibited" ??
Yep..that would be "beefing up" the alt....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Gummi: [qb]and i would like a 15v limit in street classes
My wifes Explorer charges at 15.1V with a factory electrical system and a Wal-Mart battery. Whats up with that?
Sometimes my Ranger hits 15 volts when its cold out (Ranger's and Explorer's are very similiar)..
If I remember correctly, at AudioThunder last year (when it was freeezing cold on that last day) my voltage was at 15.1-15.2 when the judge clamped the multimeter on.
QB]
here in sweden there is some street cars with aftermarket variable voltage regulators on their stock alt. so they can boost up the voltage to 17.9v in a street car with a stock alt!...and stock battery.... thats not streetable!... please do something about this!
According to my knowledge, an aftermarket variable voltage regulator is not legal in the street class. I'm sure Wayne, or another certified judge could clarify, but to my knowledge this is not legal, nor has ever been legal in the street class here in the states. An aftermarket regulator is considered a modification and that is not legal in the street class.
Yes...since that is a modification to the stock electrical system other than a batt upgrade it is very illegal.....
i can't find anything in the written rules from 2002 that say this.... or is this included in the rule: " ..... “beefing up” the OEM alternator is prohibited" ??
Yep..that would be "beefing up" the alt....
this quote is the ****
--------------------
2005 Street C 7th Place - 152.8 in a Chevy Astro Posts: 521 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gummi: [qb]and i would like a 15v limit in street classes
My wifes Explorer charges at 15.1V with a factory electrical system and a Wal-Mart battery. Whats up with that?
Sometimes my Ranger hits 15 volts when its cold out (Ranger's and Explorer's are very similiar)..
If I remember correctly, at AudioThunder last year (when it was freeezing cold on that last day) my voltage was at 15.1-15.2 when the judge clamped the multimeter on.
QB]
here in sweden there is some street cars with aftermarket variable voltage regulators on their stock alt. so they can boost up the voltage to 17.9v in a street car with a stock alt!...and stock battery.... thats not streetable!... please do something about this!
According to my knowledge, an aftermarket variable voltage regulator is not legal in the street class. I'm sure Wayne, or another certified judge could clarify, but to my knowledge this is not legal, nor has ever been legal in the street class here in the states. An aftermarket regulator is considered a modification and that is not legal in the street class.
Yes...since that is a modification to the stock electrical system other than a batt upgrade it is very illegal.....
i can't find anything in the written rules from 2002 that say this.... or is this included in the rule: " ..... “beefing up” the OEM alternator is prohibited" ??
Yep..that would be "beefing up" the alt....
this quote is the ****
would changing from a 91 mx-3 alternator to a 94 be modding?
-------------------- Beyond Audio: Why go far when you can go beyond? Posts: 10 | From: Colonsay, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Are the 91 and 94 alternators identical as far as rated output and size? If so, then you could do the switch. You may replace your alternator with one that is identical to the factory ratings, or have yours rebuild back to factory specs, but you may not upgrade to a higher output one.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
I need to clarify a little about the "swedish" altenator problem!!!!
The rules states:
6-7g:Replacing the OEM alternator with a high-output alternator, or beefing up the OEM alternator is prohibited.
6-7h:Aftermarket interconnects and power cabling are acceptable.
The guyes dont replace or "beef" up ther alternator they only change the relay that controlls the charging!!!!
Almost every car in sweden uses altenators from BOSCH. thoes generators have the relay monted on the outside and are possible to change.
You can walk in to a ordinary petrolstation (statoil) and by a new one if oure old one is broken. There are models that are adjustable(13.5-15.5V) and the ordinary are fixed at 14.4V.
The product Janne Jummisko is talking about is the MR Charge. Its a special built chargingequipment made for the Bosch alternators. In sweden the winters are dark and cold so a lot of guyes uses extra lights in front of the car.
To balance the current draw they install the Mr Charge, and then have the possibility the rise the charging.
If you read the rules it states: 6-3:The maximum voltage of the vehicles electrical system shall not exceed 18.0 volts DC at any time while the vehicle is being metered.
That apply even to street cars. but you cant change the battery to a turbostar or change the original alternator.... but you can install a intelligent charging equipment!!!
This should be leagal!!! I have participate a 3 European Finals with multipoint judges. There have never been any problems with this device.
[ 12-17-2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Roger Edvinsson ]
-------------------- Roger Edvinsson Swedish dBDragRacing Head Judge Judge since 2002 Posts: 85 | From: Stockholm Sweden | Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Roger Edvinsson: Hello!!!
I need to clarify a little about the "swedish" altenator problem!!!!
The rules states:
6-7g:Replacing the OEM alternator with a high-output alternator, or beefing up the OEM alternator is prohibited.
6-7h:Aftermarket interconnects and power cabling are acceptable.
The guyes dont replace or "beef" up ther alternator they only change the relay that controlls the charging!!!!
Almost every car in sweden uses altenators from BOSCH. thoes generators have the relay monted on the outside and are possible to change.
You can walk in to a ordinary petrolstation (statoil) and by a new one if oure old one is broken. There are models that are adjustable(13.5-15.5V) and the ordinary are fixed at 14.4V.
The product Janne Jummisko is talking about is the MR Charge. Its a special built chargingequipment made for the Bosch alternators. In sweden the winters are dark and cold so a lot of guyes uses extra lights in front of the car.
To balance the current draw they install the Mr Charge, and then have the possibility the rise the charging.
If you read the rules it states: 6-3:The maximum voltage of the vehicles electrical system shall not exceed 18.0 volts DC at any time while the vehicle is being metered.
That apply even to street cars. but you cant change the battery to a turbostar or change the original alternator.... but you can install a intelligent charging equipment!!!
This should be leagal!!! I have participate a 3 European Finals with multipoint judges. There have never been any problems with this device.
Well if Wayne says it is ...the where can i get one
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: This explains some of the crazy high street scores from Europe then.
I realy hope that you could see the differense between two country (Sweden and Finland). If Swedish guys use those equipment, that doesn´t mean Finnish guys do, or the rest of the Europe. Actually we (Finnish guys) knew that they were illegal.
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
While I dont compete and dont plan to compete in the class. Does it seem smart to have a class at finals that if you simply compete in you will place top 8 in the world? Maybe the classes would be more full also if it was not so $$ to compete in the class.
quote:2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
I personally do think some sort of move up should be done. Even if it is. Its not hard for a certain person to take a winning system from one car and move it to a different car that might be a friends..and just happens to be the exact same type car. I am not sure the best way to do this one. I like it though...Street Division. Talking retail prices...a quite a few hundred on woofers and amps that are $5999 retail. O wait they are only about $3000 at a deal or used.
quote:3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
I sorta like this one. Staying on the idea this class is for those that are beginners...or some what beginners. There are a TON of beginners that have a 15 or 2 in their car and automatically have to compete in the SS division at a show....
quote:4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
I dont feel that more then one alt should be allowed in the class. But the addition of a upgraded one. Seems only natural or even a 2nd battery. I know of a NUMBER of normal daily driven cars that have this. That the kid added on. For example..kid has 2 Stroker 15's and 2 Audiobahn 1800's. Would be stock class. He has 2 batteries. It is this kids daily driven car. He is scared to compete in drag...cause of the class he would be forced to be in.
quote:5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
I think this could be interesting. It might help with some of the other issues in the class. Other then those that are more a national compedator...if a kid is at a show and does this. Say he blows something. Can he afford to fix it...or will it be covered? Then again would the even care..it could be interesting...
quote:6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
I like this one.
quote:7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
I think that limiting quads needs to be looked at more. There are compedators (Shaker) that made it obvious that you dont need a quad to get loud..and win and make the sport "move forward."
quote:8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
Thanks again for all of your input.
-------------------- Rob, My Ride's http://mysite.verizon.net/proaudio150/ **UPDATED 8/5** Former UsacI 301-600 Pro World Record Holder and PortWars World Record Holder (old rules). -USAC 2001 World Champion and 2001 World Finalist
"Its sometimes the journey thats fun...not the destination." Posts: 8036 | From: Huron,Oh | Registered: May 1999
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Lets leave this to Robert And Tor to explain the things about the Mr Charge to Wayne and you will se it will be legal.....
And about the Finnish cars.... i dont even think they started the cars in s1-2 and 3-4....
THEY ARE THE LOUDEST!!!!!
-------------------- Roger Edvinsson Swedish dBDragRacing Head Judge Judge since 2002 Posts: 85 | From: Stockholm Sweden | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: This explains some of the crazy high street scores from Europe then.
I realy hope that you could see the differense between two country (Sweden and Finland). If Swedish guys use those equipment, that doesn´t mean Finnish guys do, or the rest of the Europe. Actually we (Finnish guys) knew that they were illegal.
quote: This should be leagal!!! I have participate a 3 European Finals with multipoint judges. There have never been any problems with this device.
I realize that Sweden and Finland are 2 separate countries, but when he talks about using it in the European Finals, that involves all the countries of Europe, and one could deduce if it was legal there, then anyone from any of those countries could be using it or something similar.
The Finish cars are loud, not to discredit that at all.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
If you do the following, I will become a member in 2003 (I was a member in 2000 but haven't been since):
#1. Allow 2 15" subs in Street 3-4 #2. Use 30 second enduro-style for Street. #3. Remove "move-up" rule for Street.
Those three things would, in my opinion, open up the sport to many more "newbies" and make for more fun. WAYNE - Please consider my input. Thank you very much.
Posts: 494 | From: So Cal | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by localjoe: If you do the following, I will become a member in 2003 (I was a member in 2000 but haven't been since):
#1. Allow 2 15" subs in Street 3-4 #2. Use 30 second enduro-style for Street. #3. Remove "move-up" rule for Street.
Those three things would, in my opinion, open up the sport to many more "newbies" and make for more fun. WAYNE - Please consider my input. Thank you very much.
#3 will discourage newbies more than anything.
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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I agree, not having a move up rule might hurt street, but look at it this way..... If there is street class who's going to be loudest? The car that is sold to the neighbors son. Having his rule is "almost" pointless until there is a way to enfore it...and there NEVER will be. Are we going to start banning CRX type boxes? Most street cars are WIDE OPEN so, (i am not condoning, copieing)....put 2 & 2 together. I would be willing to bet that, you could take ANY CSX or van, or what ever, build a finals system and transfer it to a diferent car (of the same make and model), heck, you could even change the brands of equipment....with a bit of trial and error, you can get loud.....
I look at one guy on this site who for his lst year ran an SUV in street and did pretty good for a newbie. do you know why, it's not the type of car or the equipment (with in rules) it's the lack of motovation that "SOME" youngsters have that plegue them to losing all the time. The Street cars that win ALL have one thing in common and it has NOTHING to do with there equipment. It's drive to be the loudest and getting there no matter how many boxes they need to build....
winning is NOT always WHO is competiting or WHAT they are using.....IMO, it comes down to who get's lucky & who tries the hardest.
you might be right, but having the move up rule didn't create anything but contraversy....so why have it....
posted
I have got a question about crxs. I work at honda and have noticed most of the crxs come in with a covering that goes over the backseat. I thought in the rules you weren't allowed to remove stock paneling and this piece pretty much looks like stock paneling. Any comments or can the crxs remove this peice?
quote:Originally posted by Dropcivix: I have got a question about crxs. I work at honda and have noticed most of the crxs come in with a covering that goes over the backseat. I thought in the rules you weren't allowed to remove stock paneling and this piece pretty much looks like stock paneling. Any comments or can the crxs remove this peice?
Most US Crx's do not have back seat. They do have a glove box that lays flat with the rear cargo area.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8597 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
you cant squeeze water out of a rock no matter how hard you try...
newbies dont like to get smacked down.... im not lookin forward to it if they allow 15's in street. but whatever, I like a challenge.
Posts: 341 | From: Jersey | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I want to see if this post can get to 200.`
-------------------- Bobby Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA Posts: 3500 | From: Retirement Village in Branson Missouri. | Registered: May 1999
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