posted
What makes me is all the lack of support for the retailers. Retailers hold shows to try to sell product, like extra batteries and such. Most of which is sold to Street Class competitors. With so few Street Classes and restrictions in Street, there is not much to sell. If there is no benefit from holding a show, retailers will stop hosting shows. Then in a few years there will be only one class: Stock System, because you will have to travel 30,000 miles a year to hit the NOPI shows to get a 100 point and there will be no extra money for any equipment. This whole thing has to be a compromise between Manufacture, Retailer, and Competitor. The whole idea is to inovate new ideas and products, to sell product and have some fun.
-------------------- Posts: 87 | From: enid ok | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.) i dont see what relevance how many coils has in street class when you're only allowed to use 1 amp in street 1-2, and 2 in street 3-4? what about people who plan on buying subs that are only offered in quads? ie re xxx, sonic fx q, etc?
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class. i think doing the street classes like meca does it would be good.that is, by cone area. like 0-30", 31-60" etc. like you could have 2 15's or 3 10's in street 1-2, or 4 15's or 5 12's in street 3-4. etc
-------------------- 90 crx si integra ls swap no system anymore Posts: 1139 | From: belton, sc | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: 1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
yes
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
yes
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
no
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
maybe a battery but definately not an alternator
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
leave the same
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
If you want to create another class then consider either a 1 sub street class or a 15" street class. You are effectively now proposing 4 different levels that will have to be policed at shows. If you want to create a new class then keep it the rules the same as the other street classes but just create another one. Lets not make the job of the retailer holding a show more difficult, especially since most will continue to have the mini street classes
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.) I would allow extreem to do whatever they want, but keep ss at quads 8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
-------------------- 2002 Street 3-4 Spring Break Champion 2002 Street 3-4 FORMER World Record Holder 155.0 Posts: 873 | From: Pasadena, MD | Registered: Aug 2000
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yes... I'm a little in support of the 1 sub Extreme class.....
-------------------- Crank it... TIL IT HZ!! Dave Hale MadVette Motorsports.com 615-907-8125
1999 MECA Member of the Year 2000 MECA TN. State Record Holder 2000 dB Drag World Finalist Posts: 343 | From: Murfreesboro, TN. | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
If you want to create another class then consider either a 1 sub street class or a 15" street class. You are effectively now proposing 4 different levels that will have to be policed at shows. If you want to create a new class then keep it the rules the same as the other street classes but just create another one. Lets not make the job of the retailer holding a show more difficult, especially since most will continue to have the mini street classes
-------------------- 2002 Street 3-4 Spring Break Champion 2002 Street 3-4 FORMER World Record Holder 155.0 Posts: 873 | From: Pasadena, MD | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
As a retailer, I agree with not adding classes... we offer all classes at our shows, and adding more would be a nightmare from all perspectives...
but changing the classes around to accomodate a few changes... I see no problem with...
-------------------- Crank it... TIL IT HZ!! Dave Hale MadVette Motorsports.com 615-907-8125
1999 MECA Member of the Year 2000 MECA TN. State Record Holder 2000 dB Drag World Finalist Posts: 343 | From: Murfreesboro, TN. | Registered: Dec 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I agree, it looks like most everyone is against the alt upgrades and additional battery in Street. We can do away with these if need be.
Jani has a good point on the music issue.
How are you going to enforce the alt rule ? are you going to have a list of all the cars ever made and how much there alts putout ?
I'm Know you don't want to go this route because you shot down two of my ideas because you said it was to difficult to enforce
quote:Originally posted by ConceptMustang: I can see the way things are going in this organization. In afew years the classes will be the following:
Retailer class
Retailer class
Retailer class
It just makes me that Wayne would even consider some of the rule changes that have been mentioned. Guess the all mighty dollar has taken a hold of dB drag.
Give me a break!
Here is the reality. Retailers host shows. Without retailers hosting shows, there would be no shows. Retailers hold shows to promote interest in auto sound and to sell product. dB Drag Racing is a marketing and sales tool for their company. It is only reasonable that dB Drag Racing is beneficial for retailers or they won't host events.
As the sport of dB Drag Racing has grown, more and more manufacturers are making specialty equipment that is designed specifically for competing, not selling. This equipment is so expensive and so limited in distribution that retailers either can't get the product or they can't afford to keep it in inventory. It is crucial that we address this situation.
This isn't about the dBDRA making money. It's about Retailers hosting events. I can't understand why competitors aren't more grateful for the services that retailers provide. The sport must be beneficial to everyone. This includes retailers, competitors, manufacturers, and the dBDRA.
Please re-think your position on this matter.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by ConceptMustang: I can see the way things are going in this organization. In afew years the classes will be the following:
Retailer class
Retailer class
Retailer class
It just makes me that Wayne would even consider some of the rule changes that have been mentioned. Guess the all mighty dollar has taken a hold of dB drag.
Give me a break!
Here is the reality. Retailers host shows. Without retailers hosting shows, there would be no shows. Retailers hold shows to promote interest in auto sound and to sell product. dB Drag Racing is a marketing and sales tool for their company. It is only reasonable that dB Drag Racing is beneficial for retailers or they won't host events.
As the sport of dB Drag Racing has grown, more and more manufacturers are making specialty equipment that is designed specifically for competing, not selling. This equipment is so expensive and so limited in distribution that retailers either can't get the product or they can't afford to keep it in inventory. It is crucial that we address this situation.
This isn't about the dBDRA making money. It's about Retailers hosting events. I can't understand why competitors aren't more grateful for the services that retailers provide. The sport must be beneficial to everyone. This includes retailers, competitors, manufacturers, and the dBDRA.
Please re-think your position on this matter.
Wayne... we are extremly gratful of this organization and the retailers holding events.. no matter what we say we are extremly gratful...
but also we'd like to be recognized as competitors and the classes based around us instead of what the retailers desire.. (no offence intended towards you, dbrag, retailers, or anyone)..
Next year seems like it will indeed be an interesting year.. I hope to see many people in the lanes.. see ya there..!!!
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Wayne, can you please just make the rules so we can build.Plus it will stp alot of " i want this, i want that" Your the man, use the power.P.S. This is not complaining, i just think Wayne is the only one that understands the big picture when it comes to this sport.
posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ShockingCanada: Wayne I agree with Destroyer that vans should be allowed to have their box wherever they want again...the rule only allowed people who were unfortunate enough to get stuck driving minivans around to be competitve and didn't give them any advantage over other people...I agree with not letting cargovans in street but I think you should consider removing the b-piller rule in street and make it so you can have the enclosure right up to the doorjambs again --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Shedluv:
Cargo vans, b-pillar, I don't care personally, I'll run against any of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAYNE, what if your daily driver Is a cargo caravan. I bought my van in 2001 specificly for Street Class. 2002 I had to move-up so I added 1 12" to my street 3-4 set up and competed in SS5-8 I qualified to go to finals with a 158.7dB. The same # I did the year before. I couldnt afford 32-34amps and 30 batterys. Wayne I wish you could have a official poll on this ruling. Please overlook this.
Wayne please look at the poll. Can you give us a answer.
-------------------- TEAM GMCI RACING Posts: 822 | From: Elgin,IL | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by DESTROYER: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ShockingCanada: Wayne I agree with Destroyer that vans should be allowed to have their box wherever they want again...the rule only allowed people who were unfortunate enough to get stuck driving minivans around to be competitve and didn't give them any advantage over other people...I agree with not letting cargovans in street but I think you should consider removing the b-piller rule in street and make it so you can have the enclosure right up to the doorjambs again --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Shedluv:
Cargo vans, b-pillar, I don't care personally, I'll run against any of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAYNE, what if your daily driver Is a cargo caravan. I bought my van in 2001 specificly for Street Class. 2002 I had to move-up so I added 1 12" to my street 3-4 set up and competed in SS5-8 I qualified to go to finals with a 158.7dB. The same # I did the year before. I couldnt afford 32-34amps and 30 batterys. Wayne I wish you could have a official poll on this ruling. Please overlook this.
Wayne please look at the poll. Can you give us a answer.
As i stated before...let the cargo caravans, astros and aerostars back into street class.......just keep the B-pillar rule......as Tom stated...you can get a van just as loud behind the pillar as you can with the box all the way up so that being said the rule should stay......
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
posted
Most likely I am out for next season. That enduro class will Kill my equipment. And 15" in street will kill my 12"'s It is easier to build a good box for one fifteen than two 12" more port area less phasing problems more sensitive boxs. I have been beat by a single 15" three times this year at local comps. Also adding batteries and HO alternators Will lead to more power street will turn into 2 No Wall classes. I only have maybe 1000 dollar invested in my whole car stereo. last year I added some mid basses in my door, a battery, a New box(I built), and A line driver for a grand total of $300 into it for last year. Now most of my money will go for a new 15" and box (another $300) and hopefully sell my 12's for $100
I was hoping for a single 12" class in street personaly.
-------------------- atomic apoc 15 with spl mod and a atomic 1500.1 at .5 ohm
quote:Originally posted by dkmst23: Most likely I am out for next season. That enduro class will Kill my equipment. And 15" in street will kill my 12"'s It is easier to build a good box for one fifteen than two 12" more port area less phasing problems more sensitive boxs. I have been beat by a single 15" three times this year at local comps. Also adding batteries and HO alternators Will lead to more power street will turn into 2 No Wall classes. I only have maybe 1000 dollar invested in my whole car stereo. last year I added some mid basses in my door, a battery, a New box(I built), and A line driver for a grand total of $300 into it for last year. Now most of my money will go for a new 15" and box (another $300) and hopefully sell my 12's for $100
I was hoping for a single 12" class in street personaly.
You take two 12s of said brand against one 15 of that same brand and i would bet with the same power the 12s can be made louder.....you lost to a better install...not to a 15.....if it was all about the size of the sub than i should not be beating 12s with my 10s.....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by ConceptMustang: I can see the way things are going in this organization. In afew years the classes will be the following:
Retailer class
Retailer class
Retailer class
It just makes me that Wayne would even consider some of the rule changes that have been mentioned. Guess the all mighty dollar has taken a hold of dB drag.
Give me a break!
Here is the reality. Retailers host shows. Without retailers hosting shows, there would be no shows. Retailers hold shows to promote interest in auto sound and to sell product. dB Drag Racing is a marketing and sales tool for their company. It is only reasonable that dB Drag Racing is beneficial for retailers or they won't host events.
As the sport of dB Drag Racing has grown, more and more manufacturers are making specialty equipment that is designed specifically for competing, not selling. This equipment is so expensive and so limited in distribution that retailers either can't get the product or they can't afford to keep it in inventory. It is crucial that we address this situation.
This isn't about the dBDRA making money. It's about Retailers hosting events. I can't understand why competitors aren't more grateful for the services that retailers provide. The sport must be beneficial to everyone. This includes retailers, competitors, manufacturers, and the dBDRA.
Please re-think your position on this matter.
Wayne, thank you very, very much. I know many retailers who are considering not holding dB Drags due to the facts that.
A) Most of the equipment is so specialized that it is impossible to stock or sell it.
B) Even the equipment than can be stocked and sold ends up being sold by manufacturors directly to the competitor. I would wager that at least 60% of competitors have bought nothing from a retailer. That sucks
-------------------- Quietest member of Broken Silence Competition Club
Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
GOOD
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
GOOD
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
NEEDED
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
DONT THINK SO
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
YES
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
ONLY IF U DONT TO STREET ENDURO FORMAT
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows. The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average) The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class. A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
YES
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
Thanks
YIANNIS LEKKAS HELLENIC DB DRAG RACING MULTI POINT JUDGE
-------------------- Yiannis Lekkas
Hellenic dB Drag www.dbdragracing.gr db Drag Racing Staff Member/judge Head Judge World Finals 2007,2008,2009 World Finals Judge 2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009 Posts: 513 | From: Greece | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
everyone has an opinion,but the main thing is someone has to decide on what the rules will be,and wayne has to be the one to come up with some kind of changes that will probally make some happy and others not so happy,but as you all know you cant make all the people happy all of the time,we do db drags for something to do and it keeps us out of trouble,so the rules need to be finalized so a lot of people can get their systems set up for the upcoming events,arent we all here to have fun,thanks for reading
-------------------- RODNEY BUSCH,TEAM SHOCKER AUDIO USA TEAM GATES 98 99 ran whitlee two dudes comps,usac 01 RAN STREET 1-2 WHEN IT HAD A 600WATT LIMIT 4 dr trunk car, 01 DIDNT WANT TO GO, TO MANY VANS WITH AMPS UNDER THE HOOD.4dr trunk car 02 WORLD FINALIST STREET 1-2 CERT 148.3 1 AMP 4DR TRUNK CAR. 03 WORLD FINALIST STREET A, TEAM MEMPHIS FORCE, 04 DIDNT MAKE FINALS BY 2 POINTS 04 MECA WORLD FINALIST, 5TH S2,MEMPHIS FORCE, 151.9, 2ND RSPL 05 WORLD FINALS 7TH PLACE STREET B 152.1 (WE WON THE 3 WAY TIE, DID A 152.5) 06 world finalist, bad head unit, Posts: 1728 | From: OHIO AT 1 TIME THE LOUDEST STATE | Registered: Jan 2001
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I was hoping for a single 12" class in street personaly.
**in the best annoying voice** I was hoping for a 93 Champagne colored suburban with only high end speaker class. I guess I will have to get loud within the classes that are available. Maybe I could start my own format of competition to insure my success.
-------------------- Bobby Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA Posts: 3500 | From: Retirement Village in Branson Missouri. | Registered: May 1999
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quote:As it stands now...about 75% of us are against the extrat batt and 90% are against the alt upgrade...but most that i see are for some kind of rule against using giant 4kwt+ amps....
my thoughts exactly...
Everything else sounds good except adding more batts and bigger alts into street. I feel that is a very bad idea...
--------------------
2005 Street C 7th Place - 152.8 in a Chevy Astro Posts: 521 | From: Cincinnati, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by HDBDRA: 4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
DONT THINK SO
my thoughts exactlly...
if you do this that gives the ability to run like a S3-4 vehicle minus 1 amp and 2 subs
I say limit the number of channels in Street class, this gives us who cant afford those amps that cost 2 arms 2 legs and a nut a chance.
[ 12-05-2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Enfo ]
-------------------- Got Milk? 2000 Honda Civic Si (1)Autotek MX5000 (2)Audiobahn AW1205Q's 2004 Gonna be one of last years in serious stereo compitions, cause the Si is gonna go from loud to fast Posts: 28 | From: Xenia, Oh | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
your looking aroudn the bigger picture. Ok they limit it to 2 chanles all they got to do is put that 4kw in one long case bridged internaly guess what its a 2 channel at 4kws. So channel isnt the rule either. No matter what happens they will be ways arouned everything so why not just stay how stuff is besdies adding a couple classes!
as far as street beat would that be a class that competed at finals?
-------------------- Theres those that are loud, and those who think their loud! Which 1 are you? Posts: 344 | From: MN | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
- One 15" in Street 1-2, two 15" in Street 3-4
- Bye bye to the move up rule
...and as far as an extra battery/upgraded alternator- why not just address the issue of fairness head-on? - How about a limit on the maximum amount of alternator amperage, and the CCA of the battery(batteries) so that no matter what vehicle, from a CRX to a GMC Dualie, everyone will have pretty much the same powerplant to work with...?
And I too would love to see a single 12" class.
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
--------------------
Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Q: - One 15" in Street 1-2, two 15" in Street 3-4
- Bye bye to the move up rule
...and as far as an extra battery/upgraded alternator- why not just address the issue of fairness head-on? - How about a limit on the maximum amount of alternator amperage, and the CCA of the battery(batteries) so that no matter what vehicle, from a CRX to a GMC Dualie, everyone will have pretty much the same powerplant to work with...?
And I too would love to see a single 12" class.
The problem with an alt limmit is where do you put it.....a crx comes with a tiny alt yet produced some of the highest spl numbers...a caravan has a much larger stock alt (up to 185 for the new ones) yest produces similar numbers to the crx....that larger alt kind of making up for the ton of airspace to compress....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by dBFanatic: your looking aroudn the bigger picture. Ok they limit it to 2 chanles all they got to do is put that 4kw in one long case bridged internaly guess what its a 2 channel at 4kws. So channel isnt the rule either. No matter what happens they will be ways arouned everything so why not just stay how stuff is besdies adding a couple classes!
A 4KW could not be changed into a 2 channel, non-bridged amplifier without completely building a new amp from Zapco, which I have no problem with. The number of channels rule, for it to work, would need to read like this:
Amplifiers in the street class are limited by the number of unbridged channels that they use. In street 1-2 you may have up to 2 unbridged (or 1 bridged) channels and in street 3-4 you may have up to 4 unbridged channels (or 2 bridged). As a clarification, stereo amps that are bridgeable have 2 unbridged channels, mono amps that are not bridgeable or linkable with other mono amps have 1 bridged output. Those mono amps that are linkable or strappable with another mono amp are considered to be 1 channel unbridged.
This would eliminate the 4KW from the street 1-2 class (you could still use 1 in 3-4), and allow many competitors to run bridged pairs of 1000ds (which is seen all the time on the street) to compete with the larger internally bridged mono amps from Earthquake, MMats, etc. Yes there are ways around this rule, but even with that, the ability for the average competitor to walk into most retailers and buy a pair of mono-block amps to be somewhat nationally competitive is good for both the competitor, the retailer, the manufacturer, and the dBDRA as a whole.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
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