1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
sure, considering the numbers
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
sure, we can't watc everyone anyways
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
Good Idea, it keeps the locals who have 15's involved. for those who appose? 15 vs 2 12's figure out the cone area, whats the big deal?
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
battery, maybe....alternator NO, and I like the 15 volt limit in street, Heck I think the 15 volt rule fits well in ll classes
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
maybe a 15 second average, if more...just leave it be
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
I don't like it... I think giving extreem the ball back with a one woffer class, if for nothing else..the WOW factor
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
***********************************************
I realy think that we should re-think the whole "primary electrical system requirments in 6-3" 18volt limit...realy, list more than 5 cars that were built after 80 that car FULLY operate at 17.9 volts....i'll bet we can't. I know light bulbs won't last long...and the CPU in most newer cars can't take that either.... EVEN IF they could, this should bea safty issue, because things designed to run at under 15 volts will burn/blow up allot faster. If this is OK then the definition of Primary needs to be re-writen.
also, someone mentioned a fire extingusher rule....I LIKE THIS. Maybe something like " SS and EX cars are required to have an F.E. with in 10 of them durring there run. It can Be inside the car, ONLY if the doors are NOT bolted shut. Otherwise it must be in the trunk/storage area or outside he car.
posted
1. I would like to have some feedback on why 15's should not be allowed in the Street Division. Many retailers sell 15's. Also, a single 15 has less cone area than two 12's. The ratio of cone area to motor strength is also less.
2. I don't really care about the batt's and alternator upgrades in Street. Retailers want to sell these products to consumers and since most of the consumers fall into the Street Division, the Retailers want to be able to sell product to them.
3. The Street Division is a "Daily Driver" division. Cargo vans are more like commercial vehicles. I personally would only like to see daily drivers in this division.
The Street Beat class is kind of replacing what the Street Division was supposed to be. Our options are to apply additional restrictions to Street or to create new classes. We really don't want to force everyone who has a Street vehicle to rebuild and buy new product. Otherwise, we would add rules that prohibit big amps, etc in the Street Division.
Thanks for input. I feel we are really making progress. Nothing is set in stone. If you disagree with a proposal, please explain why you disagree so that we all have a better understanding of your perspective.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
First I want to thank everyone for the MASSIVE amount of feedback. It is clear that everyone is very passionate about their beliefs. It is my job to wade through all of these comments, determine their validity, and then make a decision on what can or should be implemented in the upcoming season. Also keep in mind that we must incorporate the Retailer's perspective as well.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to voice our opinions in an open arena, and for the hard work you are putting in!
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+
I'd prefer the 50,000 watt rule be reinstated in all SS classes and Extreme classes, and the open monster class be created, but ok
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
What move up restriction? Sounds good
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
Excellent
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
From a retailers point of view this is an EXCELLENT idea, this will allow room for more add ons to the competitor who wants the discounts, allows one to make a little better living
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
Keep it the same
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows. Good idea
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
Okay...sounds cool, maybe we could develop a specialized song which will test all aspects (frequencies) of a system? That would be AWESOME!
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
Good, will this class be offered at finals? Can we make it a points only class for finals?
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
Let's make this up to retailers please?
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
Excellent
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
Excellent
Thanks again for all of your input.[/QB]
Thanks for the update!
-------------------- Quietest member of Broken Silence Competition Club
Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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2. I don't really care about the batt's and alternator upgrades in Street. Retailers want to sell these products to consumers and since most of the consumers fall into the Street Division, the Retailers want to be able to sell product to them.
I understand how retailers support us.... and how if they don't prosper, dbdrag won't...BUT if a compitior is serious enought to need extra alternators and batteries, then they should be in SS orEx. If we do that, where are the newbies going to go? the music enduro class? Sure, that works, but then what really seaperates Street from SS? I mean there is no differance then between Street and SSnw if you own a van or any kind of SUV. If this is Ok then I think we should scrap the NW class. If this class is truely designed for beginers (young, or limited budget people) than the puck has to stop somewhere. and if batteries are ok ...6000$ amp, 500$ alternator, and 200$ batteries are going to rule street class. how many newbies can afford 6000$ amps? It will just open street class back up to people with lots of money who must beat the newbie to get to finals. Amprage and voltege are the only true ways to regulate Street, I don't think we should toss that out the window.
posted
i think quads should be allowed in street because you can only run one amp anyway. doesnt it take more to move a quad than a dual? so the only advantage would be more wiring options. plus, i want to a get a xxx but i also want to compete in street next year.
i also think high output alts should be allowed but maybe have a limit to how many amps they are instead of allowing 2 batteries.
Posts: 988 | From: FLA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Can we define street by number of channels and not # of amps? I get tired of having customers not being able to use 2 1000d's strapped.
I definitely like this idea... It levels the playing field and would alow MANY different types and brands of amplifiers to be competitive in the street class, instead of a select few.
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4252 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Shawn Fleming: 1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
yes
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
yes
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
yes
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
yes to the battery, no to the alternator
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
leave it the way it is now
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
some type of street beat competition would be cool 7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.) no limit on Quads
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
Thanks again for all of your input.
Those are all just my opinions.[/QB][/QUOTE]
I also agree with this
A few questions though...$ $1. Why limit quads in street? $$2. Also is the goal to please retailers or competitors?
So we just allow more batteries and alternator upgrades so retailers can make more money?
Posts: 1405 | From: tulsa, ok | Registered: Jun 2001
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another alt and battery makes street seem more like ss rather then street.
I also again see what alot of people complaining about going into this. Money that is. It would cost more to do street then before as most would say and again , isn't this for the newbies so to speak?
I like the idea of the street beat class, makes it fun for newbies, but again I would like to be in street, but that seems to be out of league now. If the second bat and alt come into play.
I still like the idea of street and pro street that others have stated, but I am yet a member, but still feel I should speak due to wanting to join and yet not know what class to be in.
Can we define street by number of channels and not # of amps? I get tired of having customers not being able to use 2 1000d's strapped.
I think this as well is a good idea BUT, if they an make an amp strapable...or like JBL big enough...it won't matter,...i meant why is the drag queen banned? because it is designed to do TONS of power for short bursts...that's all wedo anyways...?????? i think it's a band aid till later in the 03 season where brands start making single 6-10,000watt amps. in addition, if we leave the "stock" in street class this will work fine, but if we add alternators and batteries, it won't matter.
posted
Here are my feelings. My feelings mostly regaured street. I feel the idea of adding a high output alt is a no. However an extra battery would be cool. Adding the possiblity of having 1 15 in street 1-2 or 2 15's in street 3-4 is a good idea! Most poeple would still go for 12s because of cone area however the option is there if someone wants to use 15s. As far as this street beat class? WOuld the competors have the chance to compete at finals? The 30 sec endero run could work however newbies not exactlly knowing everything could be really hard on equipment. There for i think it should be a 15 second endro run, or just allow them to burp it aswell. Quad coils i co uld careless on they arent getting no more power really out of the amp just sending it to more coils! So if quads were allowed in street no big deal! Now as far as limiting amps to channels i dont feelt his would work, for the simple fact that companys can internaly bridge the the amps. I feel that the limits on amps should stay the same! Back to street beat would they get the extra battery or no? If you can help me out it would be appreciated i guess im still kind of lost on some of these points! Im asuming that the chance of just a street 1 class is gone now also?
tahnks
-------------------- Theres those that are loud, and those who think their loud! Which 1 are you? Posts: 344 | From: MN | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
I'm not yet a DB Drag competitor, but i pay attention to the rules, and plan on competing after I get out of school.
here's my take:
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
yes
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
yes
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
yes
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
no, there should be one batter in S1-2 and two allowed in S3-4. and yes to an upgraded alt, but only one alt per vehicle.
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
this is too drastic of a change for now. I believe every class should have some sort of deathmatch after the eliminations at world finals, instead of just the top extreme guys. there should be street, SS, and extreme deathmatches
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
i think the street beat class would be cool, basically as what mini-street will evolve into.
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
quad coils should be allowed as they currently are. 8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
sounds good
-------------------- Mike Miguez
All motor CRX! Who wants some? In memory of 9/11/2001 THE FLAG STILL FLIES! Posts: 2209 | From: Beaumont TX, USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote: 4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
Street should stay with a stock electrical system...changing this would make it much more expencive to be competitive than it is now...if an extra batt and big alt are alowed...we all would be forced to get a 4kwt amp just to be competitive...keep the big alts and multiple batts where they belong..superstreet...
quote: ...Otherwise, we would add rules that prohibit big amps, etc in the Street Division.
I for one would love to see this happen....a 4kwt amp is not a streetable amp...not to mention all of the giant amps EQ is currently releasing...D4, D6, D8.......they along with the 4kwt Zap and HL 4800.1 should not be alowed in street class.....
[ 12-03-2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Ghost man ]
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I would like to have some feedback on why 15's should not be allowed in the Street Division. Many retailers sell 15's. Also, a single 15 has less cone area than two 12's. The ratio of cone area to motor strength is also less.
See below for comments
If you disagree with a proposal, please explain why you disagree so that we all have a better understanding of your perspective.
********Copied from previous post**********
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
Answer=NO
Since the classes are numbered (ex. 1-2), this gives the interpretation that the maximum number of driver is either 2 or 4 (depending on class). To allow only 1 driver to be used in a class that is defined as allowing 2 (maximum), or only 2 drivers in a class that allows 4 (maximum), would be a contradiction.
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class.
Answer=NO
With the word "street" included in the name for these classes, it can easily be recognized as being designed for vehicle with minimum modifications. Adding a secondary battery would require modifications that would exceed what could be considered "minimum". While I do agree with the upgrade of the factory alternator, it is my belief that as long as the upgraded alternator remains housed in the factory brackets, it would require no (or minimum) modifications to the vehicle. Unlike the alternator upgrade (simple R&R of the factory unit), adding a secondary battery would require more modification than should be allowed.
This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
Answer=NO
It is my belief that it should be up to the competitor, as to how long they decide to play their radio. I also believe that requiring the music (or tone) to play for a predetermined amount of time, may tax the system (resulting in equipment failure). If this was to happen, it could have the potential to discourage the "new blood" from wanting to put his/her system through the same treatment at another event (once the failed equipment has been replaced). While the idea sounds great in concept, I think the end results could be potentially lessen for the attempt to gain popularity from new competitors.
Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
Answer=NO
I believe that one of the major benefits of dB Drag Racing, is to allow manufaturers to utilize competitors to boost sales and profit margins. I am not in reference to sponsorship competitors, but just the fact that when a competitor does well at a competition event, the manufacturers utilize thier accomplishment in magazine advertisments, news articles, and web site features. This leads me to the conclusion that dB Drag Racing is used as a "real world" testing facility. To tell a manufacturer that if they design equipment that advances on current technology, they will not be able to utilize dB Drag Racing as a "real world" testing facility. This could lead to other organizations allowing the advanced technology drivers, which could result in a competitor changing formats in order to use such equipment. It has been stated by many others, that dB Drag Racing is "the best of the best". Technical advancements should not be banished, but welcomed with praise. It is what has increased the level of competitons so far, so it should also be allowed to continue to advance in ways that will create a higher level of competitions. Also, with new products being introduced in a month, it may be premature to make a judgement call on a product that is unavailable at this time.
posted
I like the idea of allowing an extra batt in street,i think it should be 1 batt per amp,that way it's good for both street classes.The upgraded alt is also a good idea,because i have two cars i can use,one has a 160 amp alt, the other has a 60 amp alt.If you want it to be fair you should be able to run as close to other competitiors as possible.A 100 amp difference is huge,i think there should be a limit,maybe 160- 175amp.Just my 0.02
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