posted
First I want to thank everyone for the MASSIVE amount of feedback. It is clear that everyone is very passionate about their beliefs. It is my job to wade through all of these comments, determine their validity, and then make a decision on what can or should be implemented in the upcoming season. Also keep in mind that we must incorporate the Retailer's perspective as well.
As I have mentioned in previous posts, I believe that it is crucial that all changes be kept to an absolute minimum. We had a GREAT season in 2002 and a GREAT Finals. The quality of officiating has improved dramatically over the years and I believe that stability is one of the reasons why. With that in mind, here are some of the broader changes that we are considering implementing. Please give me your feedback.
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
Thanks again for all of your input.
[ 12-03-2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Harris ]
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
WOW!!! So much for Minor changes only for Street classes........I feel that this is WAY too many changes for Street class.........the move up rule is one thing, but I think that that should be the ONLY thing changed, other than maybe allowing Caravan's in Street again, I mean the best of the best right?
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I say no to number four. That pretty much moves the class closer to SS and further away from begginers. I agree with the no move rule though but an extra battery and upgraded alt?
quote:Originally posted by Dropcivix: I say no to number four. That pretty much moves the class closer to SS and further away from begginers. I agree with the no move rule though but an extra battery and upgraded alt?
What is your logic in your objection to an extra battery and or alternator?
-------------------- Bobby Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA Posts: 3484 | From: Retirement Village in Branson Missouri. | Registered: May 1999
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will street 3-4 get an additional battery also?
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Dropcivix: I say no to number four. That pretty much moves the class closer to SS and further away from begginers. I agree with the no move rule though but an extra battery and upgraded alt?
What is your logic in your objection to an extra battery and or alternator?
I would have to say what "street" vehicle do you know that has 2 alts, and 2 or more batts?
By the way, Wayne, I am sure that you know my feelings on all of this, just from the previous posts
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+. Sounds good.
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division. Sounds Good.
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class. Sounds good.
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter? I think that street 1-2 should stay with one battery, and no upgraded alts. What will this bring, an 8kw?
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds. I think 30 seconds is a little long. If you look at most kids who are first time competitors, they have no idea what note to play or anything like that. They tend to play really low notes because the "sound" louder and that can be damaging to their equipment. I think 10 or 15 seconds would be better.
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
I think we have enough classes as it is. 7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.) Agreed. Any more than 4 coils is pointless on most woofers anyways.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7989 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
normal vans can run in street class, just not cargo vans
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
this has been needed
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
this has been needed
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
i dont agree with this however
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
this is not a good idea, it helps the people putting 4k + amps in there, this doesnt help bring people it scares them
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
i have already expressed my opionion on this. i say keep db drag the same as much as possible like you said you were doing
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows. The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average) The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class. A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
well wasnt this suppost to be STREET classes
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme. Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
this is the same so no change here
8.We are also working on cleaning up the "gray areas" that were discovered in 2002. Clarifications with regards to these changes will be posted shortly.
quote:Originally posted by DESTROYER: Wayne, What are your feelings toward lifting the cargo van & van rule in street? Can you give us some feed back. thanx
I am opposed to this.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: 1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
Agree
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
Agree
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
Agree
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
Disagree, and I WOULD benefit more than most from this rule because of my massive 40 amp alt if it were done. I think as stated before its asking for even bigger more expensive amps and adding more of a cost that most already complain about.
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
disagree
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
agree but take peak reading just make sure that the competitor is not allowed to turn the volume or song off after this occurs. no cargo vans in street, their are already to many vans in dbdrag because of their capabilities and anyways I like my CRX We might as well call it Van drag racing if they are allowed back but it sounds like you already understand that ..
posted
Here are my thoughts. Since I have only competed in the street class I will limit my replies to the topics concerning those:
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
Good.
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
Also Good.
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
Battery possible, but no upgraded alternator. I see several street-beat systems with a single extra battery, but very few with a beefed up alternator. I would prefer it to stay as it is, so that it is somewhat a cap on the electrical system to prevent 8000 watt amps in 1-2.
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter. Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
This I am for, it would also effectively put a power limit on street as with 1 battery and no upgraded alt (see my thoughts above) it would equalize those with 4000 watts and 2000 watts.
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events) called "Street Beat 1-2". This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows. The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average) The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class. A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed. The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
This I do not like. I have a suggestion though. Since the Mini-street classes have done well, why not combine some of them into this class. Say something like 0-300 sq in cone area and 1500 watts maximum amplifier power at any impedance. The move-up rule should apply to this class. Here is my problem with the class:
If you use an enduro-style scoring, with an average reading, and the competitor is required to play music, then the choice of program material may decide the outcome more than who's louder. Example:
Competitor A : Using test tones, high score is 145 dB on the dash.
Competitor B : Using test tones, high score is 142 dB on the dash.
Now if we assume that both systems are capable of playing full volume without loss for 30 seconds. Both competitors choose different program material that suits their vehicle on the dB Jams disc. Due to the nature that music is not a constant tone, then the system will not be reproducing SPL for the full 30 seconds. Time for the run:
Competitor A : Selects a track that has steady music beats, one beat that lasts a second, every other second(just for comparison's sake) on average. That competitor will get scored 145 for those seconds which the bass plays and 0 for those that it doesn't. Score : 145 for 15 seconds, 0 for 15 seconds. Average score : 72.5
Competitor B : Selects a track that has long bass notes, lasting 3 seconds each, followed by 2 second of pause. This competitor will get scored for a 142 for those seconds which the bass plays and 0 for those that it doesn't. Score : 142 for 18 seconds, 0 for 12 seconds. Average score : 85.2
I'm not sure how it averages, but I did a mathematical average of the decibels over time. You can see that competitor B won but was not as loud as competitor A and the choice of source material made the difference. Either have it enduro style with tones, or max score with music, but not both so that the choice of source material does not determine a winner.
Those are my thoughts, flame away.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by Dropcivix: I say no to number four. That pretty much moves the class closer to SS and further away from begginers. I agree with the no move rule though but an extra battery and upgraded alt?
At our shows we always have to "bump" REAL street cars into Super Street because they have an extra battery, and I know of MANY REAL street cars with H.O. alternators.
Maybe limit alternators to interally regulated, or something like that, otherwise you will have people with huuuuge voltage, thus eliminating the need to ban 16 volt batteries in street.
OR, maybe have a REAL voltage limit, like the 18 volt limit for SS and Extreme, just lower it to 15 or something like that...
-------------------- "WHO NEEDS ACTIONS WHEN YOU'VE GOT WORDS"
Ian Ashton Posts: 1184 | From: Mi | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
the changes look good. i think the battery rule should stay but the alt rule is a good one, newer cars have bigger alts then older ones, so i think being able to upgrade your alt to what is available from any stock vehicles is a good idea,
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Please give me your feedback.
1. Combine Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ into a single class called Extreme 9+.
YES
2. Remove the "Move-Up" restriction from the Street Division.
YES
3. Permit the use of one 15" woofer in the Street 1-2 Class and two 15" woofers in the Street 3-4 Class.
NO
4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class.
NO
We are also considering permitting the use of aftermarket or upgraded alternators in the Street Division. What are your feelings on this matter?
YES
5. There has been much discussion regarding the use of Enduro measurements in the Street Division over the past few years. Once again I would like to know your feelings on this matter.
Since enduro style competition has not be considered for the past two years (according to the official dBDRA rulebooks), and has not been utilized in that same time frame, trying to bring it back from the past would go against the "minor changes" references.
Do you believe that the Street Division should be metered the same as it is currently being done, or should we use the Enduro mode which averages the competitors score over 30 seconds.
Current measuring techniques should remain the standard for the street classes of dBDRA competition
6. Create a new Standard Class (required at all multipoint events)
YES (providing the two extreme classes, mentioned above, are combined).
called "Street Beat 1-2".
YES, with the exception of the "1-2" at the end. By including the "1-2" in the name, it would suggest that there are other "street Beat" classes available
This class would have identical rules to Street 1-2 with the following exceptions...
Only music may be used. The dB Jams V6 CD must be used at multipoint events but any music CD may be used at local shows.
YES
The competitor's score will be measured using the dB Enduro format. (30 second average)
NO
The "Move-Up" rule WILL apply to this class.
YES, but not regulate that the move must be into SS or Extreme classes (ie. move up from
A limitation on amplifiers AND woofers WILL be imposed.
YES
The limitations on these products is up for discussion. The goal is to ensure that REAL consumer products are being used.
Discussion: (only as a suggestion) Limit the approved equipment, to products that have been on the market for at least one full year (specific month of eligibility to be set by the dBDRA). This would lessen the burden on new competitors (who have outdated equipment) by allowing them to use thier current products, as a "test", to see if they wish to continue competing in dBDRA.
7. No limitation on the use of Quad-Coil woofers in Super Street and Extreme.
YES
Adding limitation restricting coils to 4 or less in Super Street and Extreme. (Limit of 2 already exists for Street.)
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