quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I'm not sold on the Pro-Street idea because competitors could circumvent the requirement that prior invitees are required to compete in Pro-Street just as they do now.
if the ruleswontbe enforeced like there not being now, why bother changing to ones that wont be enforceced later?
Posts: 1172 | From: estill springs, tn USA | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I'm not sold on the Pro-Street idea because competitors could circumvent the requirement that prior invitees are required to compete in Pro-Street just as they do now.
this would be one of those things where you have to trust that people have a good conscience. plus you have to remember that people were doing that to avoid moving up to a class where much more money would have to be spent. prostreet would keep them at the same level as before but they would just be grouped with more experienced competitors so they shouldnt have to avoid going pro since it would be the same kind of competition as the previous year.
Posts: 988 | From: FLA | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: it's not a matter of winning, but having somewhere reasonable to play.
Riiiiiiiiiight.............therefore, the ones that have already been to finals would move up to a Pro-street class, that has the SAME rules as street, what is so hard to understand here? that would not negativly affect ANYONE............I think it's funny, the people that are talking about others "whinning" are in deed the ones doing the whinning, cause they don't want to have to move up out of a class that they have already succeeded in, and don't want to allow room for new people coming into the sport......bottome line is Pro-street is the way to go. it will make everyone happy...........well maybe not everyone, cause some people won't get their way.
A pro-street class would make more people happy than just either keeping or removing the moveup rule. I mean why can't the move up rule stay in place. And add pro-street, and maybe allow an extra battery, and maybe amplifier..
I dont see why there are still a few people that don't want this? Anyone that has competing in street and been invited to finals can compete again without dropping tons of money into a SS or extreme car, and there will be a class for beginners (which was what street class was intended for.) As for mini-stret, once I see some shops have this class, then we'll talk about it more.
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: it's not a matter of winning, but having somewhere reasonable to play.
Riiiiiiiiiight.............therefore, the ones that have already been to finals would move up to a Pro-street class, that has the SAME rules as street, what is so hard to understand here? that would not negativly affect ANYONE............I think it's funny, the people that are talking about others "whinning" are in deed the ones doing the whinning, cause they don't want to have to move up out of a class that they have already succeeded in, and don't want to allow room for new people coming into the sport......bottome line is Pro-street is the way to go. it will make everyone happy...........well maybe not everyone, cause some people won't get their way.
A pro-street class would make more people happy than just either keeping or removing the moveup rule. I mean why can't the move up rule stay in place. And add pro-street, and maybe allow an extra battery, and maybe amplifier..
I dont see why there are still a few people that don't want this? Anyone that has competing in street and been invited to finals can compete again without dropping tons of money into a SS or extreme car, and there will be a class for beginners (which was what street class was intended for.) As for mini-stret, once I see some shops have this class, then we'll talk about it more.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
My opinion is you guys knew the rule when you started so now you have to live by it. It may suck but thats the way it goes. I also like the idea of the prostreet but then how many people are going to be in that class??? The whole 8 that made it to the finals bracket? I think that there would need to be some difference in the prostreet 1-2 and street 1-2 other than someone having been to finals already. Hell maybe allow another battery or upgrade an alternator. That way in a sense it is a stepping stone to superstreet instead of a class made just for those who werent wanting to leave street.
posted
Well if a Pro-street class was introduced then that would allow anyone who was ever invited to finals in Street to compete in that class. Therefore, it wouldn't just be the 8 from each street class that were invited to finals, it would be anyone who in the past has been invited to finals for Street class, could then move down to Pro-street. This may happen if the rule is removed completely and then there really won't be a spot for new competitors, because not only will they be going against 2002 seasons finalists, but then this will open the door to anyone that the rule affected in previous seasons, and that will be unfortunate for the newbies or rookies. However, with a Pro-street class in place it's pretty much competitors of the same caliber competing with each other.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well....pro street has potential.....as a step from street to Superstreet........it could follow all of the street 1-2 class rules with a few additions....
You can run two batts You can run one amp per sub (two amps) you can use 2 15s
This would not be much more expencive than the basic street class and would be a good stepping stone from street to superstreet....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
posted
I've been away from this topic too long, more thoughts:
#1) To get mini-street at shows it takes competitors interested in mini-street to request that the retailer hold it. If you push and prod your local retailer to have a mini-street class and get all of your buddies with daily driver systems to go and compete, then the retailer will see the benefit of having the class. If I was a retailer and I rarely had anyone show up other than national competitors (like 2-3 in street 1-2 with daily drivers) then why would I want to add a class and trophies for those 2 or 3. Retailers hold shows to promote their store and get a little advertising, as well as supporting their competitors. If you want a retailer to have a mini-street class, then it is the responsibility of the competitors to demand that the class be held. I would suggest talking to the retailer about a trial program of the mini-street class. Most of you know a lot of people with daily driver systems, and if you could get 5-10 more people there with the class, then the retailer can see why to have the class. Here in the midwest, I've been to multiple shows with more than 40 mini-street cars between 5 classes. 40 cars at $20 a pop is $800.
#2) Pro-street. I see this class accomplishing 1 thing. It will allow those previous finals competitors to compete in a class somewhat level with their vehicles and previous equipment/install. It will be a "legal" way to get old competitors to compete again without using a g/f, buddy, or relative's name in the regular street. HOWEVER, it still does not stop someone from circumventing the rules as before. What is to prevent an established competitor/team from building 3 identical vehicles for the 3 different street classes (with the exception of woofers and amp quantity of course). The previous competitor could run Pro Street, having his buddies/girl/etc. run the other 2 street classes, and the "newbie" will still have to go against the installs done by seasoned competitors competing in a similar class.
#3) SSNW restrictions. I think this would hurt those in No Wall currently. If we did make some restrictions, most of those people could sell off about 1/2 of their systems to get extra money for improvements, trips to shows, pay off debts, etc. I am sure that they people currently in other Superstreet classes that are having a difficult time affording quads, multiple amps and tons of batteries that would also be interested in having a class that they can compete in at a reduced cost. The regulations need to be clear and obvious, with some provision in the rule that would allow any equipment/install not following the intent of the restrictions to be DQ'ed and/or banned mid-season.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
Now after thinking, here is my thoughts on what could be done to allow normal street competitors to compete and still keep the newbie involved. It is my best idea yet.
At all multi-point events, the move up rule would be lifted allowing anyone to compete in the street classes. At all single-point events, if the retailer did not offer a mini-street or newcomer class, then the move-up rule would be in effect, and the former world finals competitor would have to compete in Superstreet NW. At those such events, Street 1-2 and 3-4 would effectively be classes for new competitors.
This accomplishes 3 things. It gives the seasoned competitor a class to compete in that will compete at world finals. It gives the newbie a class to experience what dBDrag is like without going against seasoned competitors. It encourages the retailer to have the mini-street classes as they will lose former Street competitors attending their shows if they have to run No Wall.
My other solution: require that the retailers have at least one mini-street class at each single point event and remove the move-up rule.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: I've been away from this topic too long, more thoughts:
#2) Pro-street. I see this class accomplishing 1 thing. It will allow those previous finals competitors to compete in a class somewhat level with their vehicles and previous equipment/install. It will be a "legal" way to get old competitors to compete again without using a g/f, buddy, or relative's name in the regular street. HOWEVER, it still does not stop someone from circumventing the rules as before. What is to prevent an established competitor/team from building 3 identical vehicles for the 3 different street classes (with the exception of woofers and amp quantity of course). The previous competitor could run Pro Street, having his buddies/girl/etc. run the other 2 street classes, and the "newbie" will still have to go against the installs done by seasoned competitors competing in a similar class.
This is going to happen no matter what, there is really nothing you can do about it, even if the rule is lifted what's to say that a "team" or a group of friends don't want to dominate the class and will do the same thing build a bunch of cars to run in all the street classes. There is really nothing you can do to prevent this from happening. This could happen with a mini-class as well, same thing, seasoned veteran helps friend build winning system, they win all events. I honestly don't think there is any rule you can put in place that will prevent seasoned competitors from helping friends or family memebers from building winning systems and having a group of people dominate the classes.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
no way. In areas where there aren't alot of shows, it is hard enough to get your points, let alone ahve to go against SS cars. I drove over 11,000 miles this season to get all of my points and certified scores. Only one of the 12 shows I attended was less than 300 miles from my house (round trip). In the area that I drive to for shows, the SS classes are ultra comptetive. Why should I have to be relagated to take 3rd and 4th place (5 or 6 points) at each single point event?
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: I've been away from this topic too long, more thoughts:
#2) Pro-street. I see this class accomplishing 1 thing. It will allow those previous finals competitors to compete in a class somewhat level with their vehicles and previous equipment/install. It will be a "legal" way to get old competitors to compete again without using a g/f, buddy, or relative's name in the regular street. HOWEVER, it still does not stop someone from circumventing the rules as before. What is to prevent an established competitor/team from building 3 identical vehicles for the 3 different street classes (with the exception of woofers and amp quantity of course). The previous competitor could run Pro Street, having his buddies/girl/etc. run the other 2 street classes, and the "newbie" will still have to go against the installs done by seasoned competitors competing in a similar class.
This is going to happen no matter what, there is really nothing you can do about it, even if the rule is lifted what's to say that a "team" or a group of friends don't want to dominate the class and will do the same thing build a bunch of cars to run in all the street classes. There is really nothing you can do to prevent this from happening. This could happen with a mini-class as well, same thing, seasoned veteran helps friend build winning system, they win all events. I honestly don't think there is any rule you can put in place that will prevent seasoned competitors from helping friends or family memebers from building winning systems and having a group of people dominate the classes.
There hasn't been much abuse of the seasoned competitor in mini-street class (although a few former world finalists have competed with theri daily drivers). The class is for trophies only, no points, no finals. There is no motivation to build a vehicle to build a vehicle in that class other than to get a trophy or bragging rights.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: no way. In areas where there aren't alot of shows, it is hard enough to get your points, let alone ahve to go against SS cars. I drove over 11,000 miles this season to get all of my points and certified scores. Only one of the 12 shows I attended was less than 300 miles from my house (round trip). In the area that I drive to for shows, the SS classes are ultra comptetive. Why should I have to be relagated to take 3rd and 4th place (5 or 6 points) at each single point event?
Would you rather be allowed to compete in street at multipoints and finals or be relagated to compete in Superstreet for the entire season. Under the current rules, next year for you will be all superstreet. I would also prefer to compete in street all next year as well, but this is a compromise between completely eliminating the move up rule (which would be bad for newcomers) and leaving the current rules intact (which would be bad for world finalists). This suggestion is better than no changes to the current rules.
I had 4 shows that I attended within 60 miles round trip, and then there were 2 that were about 300 miles round trip, with all of the rest being at least 3 hours ONE-WAY, so I understand your concerns, but it is a better alternative to competing in superstreet for the entire season.
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: Well....pro street has potential.....as a step from street to Superstreet........it could follow all of the street 1-2 class rules with a few additions....
You can run two batts You can run one amp per sub (two amps) you can use 2 15s
This would not be much more expencive than the basic street class and would be a good stepping stone from street to superstreet....
See this is exactly what i had in mind.. it's a step between street and super street.. it would be more afordable, it would let the newcomers have thier change to get thier feet wet.. i dont see why everyone isnt up for this?.. this will please many more people than keeping or removing the moveup rule..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: There hasn't been much abuse of the seasoned competitor in mini-street class (although a few former world finalists have competed with theri daily drivers). The class is for trophies only, no points, no finals. There is no motivation to build a vehicle to build a vehicle in that class other than to get a trophy or bragging rights.
Exactly, nothing to shoot for, so why would they stick around?? I think that the Pro-Street is the way to go. I mean if it is money that Wayne is worried about because he has to add another class to finals, that would not, or should not be a concern, I mean they are paying their dues as well, membership, entry fee, ect for finals.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: There hasn't been much abuse of the seasoned competitor in mini-street class (although a few former world finalists have competed with theri daily drivers). The class is for trophies only, no points, no finals. There is no motivation to build a vehicle to build a vehicle in that class other than to get a trophy or bragging rights.
Exactly, nothing to shoot for, so why would they stick around?? I think that the Pro-Street is the way to go. I mean if it is money that Wayne is worried about because he has to add another class to finals, that would not, or should not be a concern, I mean they are paying their dues as well, membership, entry fee, ect for finals.
OK..heres a brain storm...since a few people want a SS 3-4 NW and the numbers in 1-2 nw & 1-2 are identical....how boult a comprimixe.....eliminate NW along with combinding EX 9-12 & 13+......then make two intermeadiate classes...Pro Street 1-2 & 3-4....same rules as street class with these ecceptions....
You can have one amp per woffer 2 amps in 1-2 or 4 amps in 3-4 You can use up to 2 batts in 1-2 and 4 batts in 3-4 you can use 15s
This would be a less expencive place to move up to for those who went to finals....it would in essence be a pair of limmited NW classes....and in doing this we could just leave the rules for the current street classes as they are including the move up rule...
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
