posted
I have a few points thet I would liek to share...but these are soley my opinion and not meant to offend anyone.
1. Street class is just like SS and Ext in the sense that competition is fierce and it is no longer meant for beginners. Mini Street was the perfect resolution to this and it was proven to give beginners a starting ground. Street is like the bigger classes now because if you don't have deep pockets and don't have someone to build for you or the knowledge to build for yourself then you will not succeed! It upset me last year when SS and Ext competitors felt that street shouldn't be at finals. What are they saying, because we have to work with les subs/amps and a stock vehicle then we don't deserve finals invites? That's crazy! Street has changed from a beginner class to as much a "pro class" as SS and Ext.
2. People will continue to sell their vehicles, ideas and equipment to new competitors in street to get around whatever rules there are keeping them out of street. This rule needs removed.
3. I personally, as well as others, don't have the money to move up. Some will ask, why not move up with the equipment you had in street? Plain and simple, I will not compete in a class that I cannot afford to be competitive in. If I had the money for SS or Ext I am sure I would be fairly successful. But it is not within my financial means to do this at this time.
Good luck in this debate. I know that it is getting heated so I have been reserved but feel that as a past competitor I needed to share my input. Plain and simple "Get loud or go home." I'm fairly certain this was the original motto for the DBDRA. That's the name of the game, not everyone can be a winner!
posted
I don't think people are asking for an organization that they will always win in, I think everyone whether it be street, ss, or extreme have all worked very hard on their systems and are dedicated to this sport, but the bottom line is you have to have a fair playing field. This does not mean that everyone is going to be winners, that's just not realistic and I don't think that those that are saying the rule needs to stay or that there should be a Pro-Street class are saying that if they can't always win then they don't want to play, I think they are just saying that once you have the experience and you have the ability to be the best or one of the best then why not make room for some new competitors. We certainly don't want you out of the sport all together, that would be ridiculous, and completely against the point of having this organization. But all of you that are saying that you need to get loud or go home are also the ones saying you don't have the money to move up, so why are you asking new people to the sport to spend a bunch of money that maybe they don't have to get to the level of you. It doesn't seem fair all around, and I think unfortunatly in the past year this sport has turned into more about how much you can spend and who you know then what your capable of building and that is sad. I really do think that a Pro-Street class would be a good idea, and I don't see why there would be a problem with it. There is talk about people will just build systems for other people to compete in Street, well when you have a team like Team Aztec, Team Kryptonite, Team Divine, aren't they most likely helping each other build systems...so what's the difference, it still opens the door for new competitors and new vehicles. I think it is unfortunate that if the rule is lifted it will eliminate competitors, and if the rule stays it will eliminate competitors, but everyone seemed to be in agreement about the Pro-Street class, that wouldn't eliminate anyone, in fact it would encourage more people to join the organization, and hell I thought that is what we all wanted, but I guess not.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: Why wouldn't I want to move up?
Plain and simple answer - $$$$$$$$.
Super Street No Wall: Caravan that can be driven to shows - $2000 2 DD9917s quads - $1200 16 bd1500.1s - $8000 32 Turbostarts - $2500 Head Unit for podium - $200 Line Driver for 16 amps - $200 Wire, misc - $300 Box supplies - $200
Total: $14,600 for a vehicle capable of winning world finals.
EVERYONE KNOWS THAT I WON NO WALL AT FINALS... MY EXPENSES WERE:
Tow Vehicle: $24,000 Trailer: $2,000 Vehicle: $800 Work to vehicle: $1,000 16 BD1500.1's: $9,600 58! Turbostarts: $7540 2 DD 9915's: $1,500 CD Player: $300 Line Driver: $150 Wire, misc: $500 Box supplies: $500
posted
I have a simple solution - move up goes. the first three or eight will be penilised via a point system....example joe soap wins this year he carries a 0.5 db penaulty for each and every number he gets next year, second is penilised .45 db and so on. in racing they are allocated weights - well db drags the weight penaulty is the loss of db's, if the racing guys can do it so can we, its the same thing right?. I have just chosen numbers to think about...
-------------------- dB Drags South Africa. Posts: 152 | From: Johannesburg - South Africa | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
On the move up issue - of the 40 or so competitors invited in 2001 in street 1-2 & 3-4, how many moved up and continued: 3.
How many sold the car to a friend/relative/etc.: I'd wager about 4.
How many 'teams' with more than half their members as previous world finalists were in street at 02 finals - probably a third.
Wayne's right, it's too easy to circumvent the rules and impossible to police, or force competitors to not sell their vehicles to future competitors.
My feelings - lift the move up, or introduce a pro-street. The problem is, introducing pro-street means adding two new classes, not one, which is all we've got to work with.
As for the benefits of a CRX - not every CRX at finals used the space behind the seats as amp area. I'd been under the impression that since the fiasco of the amps mounted to engines in 01 that all components of the system had to be cleared of the b-pillar. That's how my fiance built his CRX, and he got to finals with it and going in was ranked top 10 of those there. A half-toasted amp killed his score but know what - he did it to the intent of the rules and without playing in the gray area.
I'm proud of him for doing that - but it turns into this for us in 03 - for us to be able to continue to afford to compete in dbDrag if the move-up rule is not lifted, we're going to have to step into the gray area. We run two competition vehicles - mine in SQ and his in SPL. And if you think SPL can be expensive - SQ can be as much at the pro level.
And know what - I'm not sure we're comfortable with playing in the shades of gray in the rule book. We're in a region blessed with shows, both dbDrag and other orgs - so there is a place we could continue to play and see our friends outside dbDrag, without compromising the "intent" and "spirit" of what makes dbDrag special.
I'm not saying change the rule so we don't feel like we're cheating - I'm suggesting changing the rule because it's a ridiculous burden on the dbDrag staff, as well as the competitors.
Getting competitors in is great - but dbDrag won't grow if we keep tossing out the cream of the crop when the season's over.
[ 11-19-2002, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Dragon Lady ]
-------------------- When you find yourself standing in a hole and holding a shovel, stop digging.
Certified IASCA/idbl Judge ** 2002 IASCA SQ Points Champ ** IASCA Pro Street 601+ * USACi Pro 601+ * SLAP Pro Street 601+ ** Team Gates ** dBs Posts: 5428 | From: Orlando, Florida | Registered: May 2000
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posted
im agreeing with them about the pro-steet. Move up there and call it good. People dont have to spend that much more money to win in pro-street if they are already doin well at finals. Think about it, you already have the sub, and the amp obviously, maybe a few minor box changes, etc, and youd be in biz...or maybe no changes at all. Then once u make pro-street and u win.....sand bag all you want so long as the new comers have a class that work, and people who arent neccesarily NEW, but didnt go to finals have a class as well. All you people who would move up will probably end up spending less than those who dont, because those who dont will still have to get louder and that means maybe a new amp, where those loud enough to make finals in the first place MUST already have a D3, modded, D2, 4wk, etc etc...PEACE
quote:Originally posted by shocka3_18: im agreeing with them about the pro-steet. Move up there and call it good. People dont have to spend that much more money to win in pro-street if they are already doin well at finals. Think about it, you already have the sub, and the amp obviously, maybe a few minor box changes, etc, and youd be in biz...or maybe no changes at all. Then once u make pro-street and u win.....sand bag all you want so long as the new comers have a class that work, and people who arent neccesarily NEW, but didnt go to finals have a class as well. All you people who would move up will probably end up spending less than those who dont, because those who dont will still have to get louder and that means maybe a new amp, where those loud enough to make finals in the first place MUST already have a D3, modded, D2, 4wk, etc etc...PEACE
Exactly.............I don't see what the difference is here, Wayne is not "sold" on the idea of having a Pro-street, yet he is "sold" on having a "mini" street...........why? The people that would move to pro-street would not have to spend any more money, and they would be happy, cause the rules would be the same as street........yet, if you have the "mini" street class, now you have to come up with all NEW rules for this class.........I REALLY hope that you go with the pro-street class, it makes the most sense.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
As it is hasn't there been talk of combining Extreme classes? If you combine to of them then that frees up 1 more class that can be available, do away with the whole mini-street class and you have two classes available for Pro-street 1-2 and Pro-street 3-4. Right? I am STRONGLY against a mini-street class, this is ridiculous, first of all, it is a one-woofer class, not too many people have one-woofer...then you have the fact that it can be one of any size woofer...oh yeah that's fair have 1 10 go up against 1 18...yeah...and then there is the fact that it is up to the judge doing the show if they want to hold it or not, in Cali there is one judge who holds that class if there are enough competitors, and then there is one judge that will not hold it. So are competitors supposed to go to an event not knowing for sure if they are going to have a class to run in that day, and if they don't have a mini-street that day, they are thrown in to street 1-2, and that isn't very fair. You also have the issue of you don't get points, and you don't go to finals with this class, so other then people getting some experience they aren't going to get much more then that, and I don't think that is going to make people too happy. Yet you have the option of Pro-Street, which is NO different then Street, other then the fact that it is made up of World Finalists and seasoned veterans, they won't have to spend more money, they won't have to do anything other then run the system that got them to finals to begin with, but still have a class for newbies or rookies or whatever you want to call them to play in. And once again I will repeat I do not think that this is the way it needs to be to make it easy for everyone to win, that is just ridiculous, you are always going to have losers...always....this is just evening the playing field a bit for everyone. And it is a solution that so far pretty much everyone has agreed upon, and if it goes then NO ONE will leave the organization, but if the vote goes to either throw out the rule or keep the rule and nothing else is done, people will have no choice but to leave the organization and we don't want that.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
A reason he's not "sold" on pro street - is because that would be one offered at finals. You'd have to have two pro streets. Right now there's one class available to assign and Wayne said he's not increasing the number of classes. The "one" class is available [b]IF[b] there is a combination in extreme. Wayne has said there will not be changes in SS.
A reason he's "sold" on mini street - is because it is up to individual shops & promotors to offer this, and the divisions are at their discretion. It is not a class that will be offered at multi-pointers and finals.
If you want to compete on a national scale - sack up and be ready to go against the best of the best no matter the class. If being top dog locally is good enough for you - do mini street.
quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: A reason he's "sold" on mini street - is because it is up to individual shops & promotors to offer this, and the divisions are at their discretion.
Right, so you get these new kids coming out, to competitions, and then find out, OH CRAP, I just drove 2-3 hours for nothing, because they are not offering the mini street class, and now I have to compete in street, I may as well just hand over my $25 and go home.
Therefore, they are going to stop going to competitions......thus.......no new people coming into the sport..........why is it that Wayne doesn't want or "can't" add more classes? Software limitations?? if that is the case, he made the program, just update it.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I think it is funny that all of the people that are saying oh just shut up and compete or get out of the sport are already at the top...how would you feel if people said that to you while you were making your move up? I'm just curious, there is a lot of big talk from people that are already at the top...glad you had the money to make it there...lucky you...so basically any of us that don't have the money can just shut up or get out of the sport right? Well isn't this like high school cliques, the people with the money stick together and the people who don't have the money get made fun of or pushed out of the way. So then if that is the case I guess I should try to sell the equipement that I already have, so I can compete in mini-street, rather then keeping the equipment that I have and taking 6th or 7th at shows all the time huh? Since it's all about money, and I don't have the money to go out and get a 4KW or a D3 or any of the other higher priced amps. Well good luck to everyone that continues in dbDrag, hope there is a place for you.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
This whole thing is so very simple. 1) Drop the move up rule. 2) Put some equipment restrictions in SS1-2NW (exapmle: 4 channels per sub and 8 16V or 16 8V batteries and no sub larger than a 15"). 3) Combine EX9-12 and EX13+ and add EX 1 sub. This gives a step between Street and Super-Street and a step between Super-Street and Extreme. Thanks Brad
-------------------- Posts: 87 | From: enid ok | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: A reason he's "sold" on mini street - is because it is up to individual shops & promotors to offer this, and the divisions are at their discretion.
Right, so you get these new kids coming out, to competitions, and then find out, OH CRAP, I just drove 2-3 hours for nothing, because they are not offering the mini street class, and now I have to compete in street, I may as well just hand over my $25 and go home.
Therefore, they are going to stop going to competitions......thus.......no new people coming into the sport..........why is it that Wayne doesn't want or "can't" add more classes? Software limitations?? if that is the case, he made the program, just update it.
Which is why the events calendar ALWAYS says call ahead. By the rules, at 1x's all classes could be combined at the promotors discretion. If you're dumb enough to drive 3 hours to a shop/show you've never been to before and not have called ahead to see what classes/prizes and if it's even indeed sanctioned, you've got nobody to blame but yourself.
Oh and firefly - we're far from "at the top" of street 1-2, particularly if the move up rule is lifted. It's also not all about the money - for less than $700 ($850 if you include all the boxes and wiring) in equipment my fiance made it to finals.
I'm sorry you lack the time and skills to get louder. But where the majority of street competitors who've made it to finals are concerned - it's not a matter of winning, but having somewhere reasonable to play.
[ 11-19-2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Dragon Lady ]
-------------------- When you find yourself standing in a hole and holding a shovel, stop digging.
Certified IASCA/idbl Judge ** 2002 IASCA SQ Points Champ ** IASCA Pro Street 601+ * USACi Pro 601+ * SLAP Pro Street 601+ ** Team Gates ** dBs Posts: 5428 | From: Orlando, Florida | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Team P.A.: This whole thing is so very simple. 1) Drop the move up rule. 2) Put some equipment restrictions in SS1-2NW (exapmle: 4 channels per sub and 8 16V or 16 8V batteries and no sub larger than a 15"). 3) Combine EX9-12 and EX13+ and add EX 1 sub. This gives a step between Street and Super-Street and a step between Super-Street and Extreme. Thanks Brad
Wouldn't that impact the people who run SS 1-2NW negatively? What if they already have the equipment that they will then be told they can't use?
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
This directly effects me, but not negatively. I have 16 Crossfire 1000d's, 2 DD 9917 quad coils and 26 8V batteries. If I choose to stay in this class, I will sell off what is not needed and run. This is just a way to bridge the gaps and ease the money requirement to move up. Thanks Brad
-------------------- Posts: 87 | From: enid ok | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: it's not a matter of winning, but having somewhere reasonable to play.
Riiiiiiiiiight.............therefore, the ones that have already been to finals would move up to a Pro-street class, that has the SAME rules as street, what is so hard to understand here? that would not negativly affect ANYONE............I think it's funny, the people that are talking about others "whinning" are in deed the ones doing the whinning, cause they don't want to have to move up out of a class that they have already succeeded in, and don't want to allow room for new people coming into the sport......bottome line is Pro-street is the way to go. it will make everyone happy...........well maybe not everyone, cause some people won't get their way.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Dragon Lady: A reason he's "sold" on mini street - is because it is up to individual shops & promotors to offer this, and the divisions are at their discretion.
Right, so you get these new kids coming out, to competitions, and then find out, OH CRAP, I just drove 2-3 hours for nothing, because they are no
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