quote: chitownWHAT: first of all, get rid of the move up rule in all classes. then, have a street class like now and then add a pro street class which would have the same rules as regular street. pro street class would be anyone who made it to finals the year before. if someone makes it to street finals, next year they would HAVE TO move to pro street and then can continue there as long as they want. this keeps the new people together and then the veterans can have their own class where they go against each other.
Now that's one of the bestest ideas I've heard in a long time!
And aside from the obvious lower costs involved in competing in Street compared to any other class, I just love the class because it's so inherently limited that there seems to me to be a greater challenge to get the meter reading up there. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
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Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Yeah, i think, that could be a possible way to get all satisfied.
I'm a Street class competitor, too, and the move-up-rule would not have any influence in my competiting behavior (cause I'll probaly not compete at World Finals).
But this "move-up-to-Pro-Street"-rule should not only be for the World finals, but in EVERY national final, so this could be an "international rookie-class".
Üüüüüh Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by chitownWHAT: first of all, get rid of the move up rule in all classes. then, have a street class like now and then add a pro street class which would have the same rules as regular street. pro street class would be anyone who made it to finals the year before. if someone makes it to street finals, next year they would HAVE TO move to pro street and then can continue there as long as they want. this keeps the new people together and then the veterans can have their own class where they go against each other.
Fine with me. I could handle this. Dont know if this is the kind of thing that Wayne is looking for but it would definetly work.
The only thing we are looking for here is a Class that is Street Based so we can afford to continue to compete.
Eric
-------------------- Team SPT (Co-Founder)
Former Super Street Deathmatch World Champions Former Super Street 3-4 World Record Holders Former Super Street 3-4 2nd Place World Champions Former Super Street 5+ 2nd Place World Champions 3 Time DBDrag Street World Record Holder 3x MECA World Champion and Record Holder And Helped a Few Break some Records along the way! And Got some help.
posted
Not having competed in the last year and a half I still fall under the current move up rule due to being invited to the 2000 world finals in the SS 1-2 class. I think that the largest reason people do not want to move up from any of the street classes to any of the higher classes ahs to do with cost. As stated previously it may take a $2500 amp to win street class but it will take 4 times that much to even be competitive in any of the SS or EXT. classes. I do feel that there should be some form of street class that is open to anyone that wishes to compete in it, either seasoned competitors or first time competitors. However I do not feel that this class should be limited to just a 12" sub. I don't know about the rest of the country/world but around here a typical street system often consists of a pair of 15's or a single 18. Or there is the occaional street beater that is daily driven with 4 15's and a pair of 10's. And yes that is a person's daily driver.
If the move up rule is removed then I will honestly say that I will play in street class some this year...just to see what I can do with a "budget" system. But I will also be working on my other vehicle which is a SS vehicle. Not all of the street competitors have the time/money to make the move into SS or Ext. so there should be someplace for them to play atleast for a couple of years.
Perhaps even putting a limit on how many years a person/vehicle could stay in street. Say 2 or 3 years. After that time they shoudl ah ve enough money saved up to make the move to the upper classes. I also feel that the DBDRA should kkep track of competitors as well as vehicles used in the street classes to further monitor the enforcement of the rules. Competitors are already required to have proof of ownership, why not use VIN numbers for Street competitors? The local/single point shows won't really matter cause they often operate by their own rules/classes anyway. but at the double and tiple point shows as well as finals it would be easy to have an extra line for the VIN to be filled out on the registration form and would only take a quick second in the lanes for verification for accuracey by the judging staff.
Just my thoughts.
Craig
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From: Clayton, NC USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Well it looks like everyone that was having a problem with this has now come to an agreement that will work for everyone.........now let's see if Wayne says yes.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Ok, lets get real here. I have competed in street class from day one. I am married with 4 kids and have never had the money to hit real numbers in the higher classes. I built a chevette in 2000 that had 8 15" but only 4 mtx amps. I barely got it over 150. I am the reason the move up rule does not work. I went to finals in 1998 in my name before there was even a street class and that keeps me from competing in my name. My wife went in 2000 and placed 8th. A car bearing my equipment went in 2001 and my team name went in 2002. Next year, keep the move up rule and guess what, my 17 year old daughter will be competing. The bottom line is the rule is not able to be enforced therefore it should be removed. What would it take me to move up ??? A full sponsorship including a trailer and an allowance per show to cover expenses for a family of 6. I have been a competitor for going on 6 years now, been to probably 250 shows and can hardly get competitor pricing much less a sponsorship. Actually, I don't want a sponsorship because then its no longer fun, it becomes a job and you have to keep someone else happy. I'll stay in street, buy my own equipment, and enjoy myself.
[ 11-18-2002, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Team Vibrator ]
-------------------- TEAM VIBRATOR 30 Seconds and were DONE 2002 Street 3-4 Spring Break Champion 2002 Street 3-4 FORMER World Record Holder 155.0
posted
Team Vibrator, with the new proposal of a Pro Street class this means that anyone who went to finals goes up to this class and can remain in this class for however long they please, it would be the exact same rules and regulations as Street, just seasoned competitors. This would then leave the Street class for new competitors such as your 17 year old daughter. We would welcome her into the sport, cause after all she is another face, another competitor, and someone else that will make the sport grow, which is exactly what we all want. So why wouldn't that work for you?
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
I'm not sold. I believe that the problem regarding the move up rule would still exist even if a seperate class for previous invitees existed.
It sounds like the biggest reason competitors don't want to move out of the Street Division is cost, plain and simple. They don't want to purchase more and/or bigger (ie more expensive) gear, they don't want to trailer their vehicle and incur all of the costs associated with that, etc.
I believe the solution needs to be one or more intermediary classes that bridge the gap between Street and Super Street while maintaining some limitations on the equipment being used. We also need to find a way to ensure that "real", off-the-shelf, everday car stereo gear is being used so that the retailer has an opportunity to sell some product.
In the existing Street Division, we strictly limit the mods that can be made to the electrical system of the vehicle in an effort to restrict the maximum power a system can have. I think the only changes that should be considered with regards to Street is 1.) Should we allow a single 15 or 18 to be used in the Street 1-2 Class (or two 15 or 18 inch woofers to be used in Street 3-4) and 2) Should the "move-up" rule be eliminated. I personally believe this rule should be eliminated and that an additional intermediate class be created.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
one concern for adding an 18 is that the new KICKER X would be the equivalent of 3 - 12 inch round subs. can it be powered who knows, but I wouldn't doubt someone tries!!
I am for the pro and regular dual street classes
-------------------- Chris TEAM B.Y.O.B. - "Bring Your Own Bass" 154.3 DB - JEEP WRANGLER!! (non-crx, non-crx box...thinking outside the box) 2003 DB DRAG WORLD FINALS - 4TH PLACE STREET B 2003 H-O ALTERNATORS STREET ROOKIE OF THE YEAR 2003 DB DRAG 3RD PLACE POINTS CHAMPION - 247 POINTS SAME CAR
Posts: 874 | From: Oklahoma City | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Personally.. to take this from both sides..
Street class to my knowledge is supposed to be the class that introduces new competitors to dbdrag racing, it has certain rules so that only a "street" type system may compete. As a fairly new competitor myself I want to get involved with dbdrag, but at the same time, I do not want to goto competitions to be beat with someone with experience from previous years (or a world finalist, etc), I'd rather be against people with the same experience, and hopefully nearly same equipment. I don't think it is fair for me to be thrown in with people that have mastered this class, or people that can afford amps like the Zapco 4KW (IMO if you can afford this amp, you can afford to move up a class).
From another point of view. Some people cannot afford to move up. Myself as a college student if in the past I have attended world finals and then because of that I would be forced out of competition. Thats not that fair either..
Then of coarse there are the people who find ways around the rules..
But I think the gap between street and super street needs to be shrunk.
To move up from street to super street you would need to buy many more amps, build a wall, batterys, etc.
The cost would be a alot more. Which alot of us cannot afford.
Maybe another division is what's needed? To fill the gap between Street and Super Street..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
If the DBDRA wants to limit the products used in the street class to "real" off the shelf stuff, why not ban certain amps or subs (4kw for example). I know it is hard to decide which amps/subs should or shouldn't be banned, but in an effort to make things "fair" i think it might be a good idea.
If the intermediate class is made between street and superstreet, what do you propose that it would be? Would it be a class without the move up rule? Would the present street class still have the move up rule? Ultimately I think wayne should be the one making the decision and coming up with the options, then we, the competitors, can vote on it.
If I were to propose new classes, I would keep them the same, I.E. Street 1-2, 3-4, then possibly add a Pro street 1-2, or a pro street class determined by cone area, 1-250 sq inches for example.
P.S. It would be nice if we could just discuss rules instead of bickering...
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8919 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
An idea for an intermediate class would be to make it have street rules(no cargo vans or vans with boxes pushed up to the front door jam and no cut threws) but allow 2 15s or 18s an upgraded alt maybe and an extra battery.? Maybe even 2 amps? This would definately cut back on the costs for a competitor and allow them to move out of street. Possibly call this pro street and maybe have a 1-2 and 3-4(double the above) or even just 1-2 would be cool with most I'm sure. I figure most would have to buy another amp another battery an alt possibly and 15s. This is alot cheaper than 20+ batteries, a new vehicle /tralier, and several amps. What does everyone think of that?
-------------------- KCG Team Maxxsonics Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
My bro and I are in extreme 1-2 and we don`t have any sponcers at all!! Do you say spending 10 g`s cdn. on amps sponcered?? We nickeled and dimed all year to make it to finals, this is what it takes sometimes to reach a goal. And it was all worth it to get the 5th place thophy on the stage. But there should be a new class made for those who want to stay in a more affordable class and LEAVE THE STREET CLASS FOR NEW COMPETORS ONLY!!
I agree with you. Lift the "move up" rule and also allow the use of 15s or 18s as you proposed.
I think that another area needs some limitation.....that is the loopholes that CRX users get away with. I have no problem with the Crx, but allowing the owners of these cars to place the amps on the floor behind the front seat (limiting seat travel) is ridiculuous. Everyone of the Finalists in Street 3-4 this year was questioning the legitamcy of allowing 2 Zapco 4KW amps to reside on the floor behind the seat in the Mary Poncin car. They built the care to the rules, and they WON. congrats to them, but it does seem like a stretching of the rules that is not in " the spirit of DB Drag."
Is this of an concern to the DBDRA?
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: If you are one of those affected by this rule, (you have received an invitation to the World Finals in years past), can you elighten us on why you don't want to move up?
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: [qb]There are only so many of those 4kwt amps so yes they may take the top spots but as Eric has shown us they are not needed to fight for 1st in street class
No they are not needed but a D3 cost some $$ too, and try finding those as well. QB]
The D3 cost no more than that Mojo you have.....and i can think of 4 used ones right now for around $700 each and about two places to get them new......$750
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
Why I would like to see the move up rule lifted... hmmmm
Money is a big issue here, but we all know that we can work around it.
I competed back in 2000 in street 1-2 and qualified for finals. There was bigger things brewing with "Chili" and "Bubba" and I didnt know anything about no boxes back then (still dont understand it completly now), so I ended up going to finals with a untested box prior to saturday morning at finals.... saturday morning arrives... "Luin Haden, please follow me to the lanes." so I followed the little golf cart in my neon only to do a 143.9, yeah I was a little frustrated I didnt make top 8, but you know what, I had the best time of my life at finals the rest of the day saturday and sunday!!
So I would like to come back and play at least one more year in street and at least get top 8 at finals in street.
Also I missed out competeing against some of the other people in street in 2000 such as Bransoy, Weber, Iggy, Addison, etc and in 2001 and 2002 there was some new faces that I would like to go head to head with, just to have some fun.
Back in 2000 there was a guy named Daniel Orr from Bolivar, MO... me and him used to go back and forth with victories all year long, we also kicked out Danny Britian's made street car once, so we feel we accomlished something.
I know my post doesnt really make too much sense, thats because I am just dieing to get back into the street class!!
I like the idea of adding a "previous invitee of finals" street class, as long as it wouldnt take away from super street and extreme divisions. I know people are doing some crazy numbers in street, but look at of the HUGE numbers in Super Street and Extreme!!
Super Street 1-2 nw 167.x Super Street 1-2 170s! Super Street 3-4 170s! " " 5-8 173.x and 172.x " " 9+ 170s
All and all Super Street and Extreme is getting LOUD!! I dont want to take away time from them at finals or anytime of the year, but yes I want to compete.
**This next part is my opinion and isnt directed at anyone or anything!!**
I dont think dB Drag will die if the Move up rule is not lifted. It will continue to strive just like it has in its past 6+ years.
Luin
-------------------- -Luin Haden AKA "Lou Dog" 2000 Street 1-2 World Finalist Posts: 3058 | From: Nixa, MO | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by QuadCam: Wayne, ....Everyone of the Finalists in Street 3-4 this year was questioning the legitamcy of allowing 2 Zapco 4KW amps to reside on the floor behind the seat in the Mary Poncin car. They built the care to the rules, and they WON. congrats to them, but it does seem like a stretching of the rules that is not in " the spirit of DB Drag."
As it is a street class, I can positively assure you that the car was driven on a daily basis most of the summer with the amps in the same spot as they were at finals.
Dan likes to street bump to mid 159's. And NO, I'm not kidding.
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com Posts: 2737 | From: Mankato MN | Registered: Jun 1999
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Not just the cost of the vehicle & equipment, but also the cost of TIME INVOLVED.
You can try more things in a street car in a day or two than in any other class. To some people (not all), time is a valuable thing also.
Ditch the rule, have rules in place that can be enforced. Create the year to year excitement of having seasoned competitors in the lanes...it is FINALS after all. The best of the best, NOT the best of the REST.
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com Posts: 2737 | From: Mankato MN | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
1st off I have to say all the classes have there place! But I like street class because it is down to earth, its something any bass head can directly relate too. I mean I am bumpin everything I went to finals with right now and all I had to do is change my port! Not many (I know there are some) competitors from the higher classes can say the same, hell they prob don't drive there SS or Extreme cars to work every day ether witch is fine.Street class to me was a way to prove you are the loudest bass head hittin the streets on any giving sat night.Maybe make SS-NW more like street class and less like SS 1-2?!?!? Wayne to me its not about money.....
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by orphan440: An idea for an intermediate class would be to make it have street rules(no cargo vans or vans with boxes pushed up to the front door jam and no cut threws) but allow 2 15s or 18s an upgraded alt maybe and an extra battery.? Maybe even 2 amps? This would definately cut back on the costs for a competitor and allow them to move out of street. Possibly call this pro street and maybe have a 1-2 and 3-4(double the above) or even just 1-2 would be cool with most I'm sure. I figure most would have to buy another amp another battery an alt possibly and 15s. This is alot cheaper than 20+ batteries, a new vehicle /tralier, and several amps. What does everyone think of that?
That's along the lines of what I had in mind.. maybe only allow up to 15's, and say max 2 amps or such.. and have no move up rule, this way when people are done getting thier experience with street, they can move into a class which wont cost them loads of money to be competitive in (for those who cant afford it), also it will let the newbies have thier first year in a class which isnt dominated by vetrans..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BMFONYXProbe: If the DBDRA wants to limit the products used in the street class to "real" off the shelf stuff, why not ban certain amps or subs (4kw for example). I know it is hard to decide which amps/subs should or shouldn't be banned, but in an effort to make things "fair" i think it might be a good idea.
Exactly.. IMO if you can afford a 4KW, you can afford to move up a class..
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I'm not sold. I believe that the problem regarding the move up rule would still exist even if a seperate class for previous invitees existed.
It sounds like the biggest reason competitors don't want to move out of the Street Division is cost, plain and simple. They don't want to purchase more and/or bigger (ie more expensive) gear, they don't want to trailer their vehicle and incur all of the costs associated with that, etc.
I believe the solution needs to be one or more intermediary classes that bridge the gap between Street and Super Street while maintaining some limitations on the equipment being used. We also need to find a way to ensure that "real", off-the-shelf, everday car stereo gear is being used so that the retailer has an opportunity to sell some product.
In the existing Street Division, we strictly limit the mods that can be made to the electrical system of the vehicle in an effort to restrict the maximum power a system can have. I think the only changes that should be considered with regards to Street is 1.) Should we allow a single 15 or 18 to be used in the Street 1-2 Class (or two 15 or 18 inch woofers to be used in Street 3-4) and 2) Should the "move-up" rule be eliminated. I personally believe this rule should be eliminated and that an additional intermediate class be created.
You are not thinking about the new people wanting to come into this sport, you are only thinking about the existing competitors, and trying to make them happy, you need to be more concerned about wanting more people to join dBdrag, and make this sport grow. And lifting the move up rule is not going to do that...........what I don't understand, is that we figure something out, that will work, and not affect people in a negative manner, that both sides which had problems with the existing rule agree on, and you say "I'm not sold. I believe that the problem regarding the move up rule would still exist even if a seperate class for previous invitees existed." Why?? why would the problem still exist? you would have a pro-street class with the SAME rules as street is now, the only difference is that the move up rule does not affect the pro-street people, the move up rule would only affect the street competitors, in which they would then have to move to pro-street after they goto finals........so why would the problem still exist?
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I've never been invited to finals but am compelled to respond as this rule will affect me soon. I purposely kept my points low during this year and last year because of this rule. I enjoy competing in dB Drag and NSPL. My car is as competitive as anyone out there. The reason I stayed in NSPL so much this year is simple. I do not want to destroy my car or buy another just to compete. I built my car for me. I will never load this car down to an unsafe level just to compete in dB Drag. THIS IS A DAILY DRIVER. Make no mistake, sponsorship or not, SS or EX is a giant jump in cash. I wonder how many people here have 50k in credit card bills because of their desire to compete?? I simply can't undestand why every other SS and EX class can stay in the same class year after year, but Street is not allowed to. We spend just as much time tuning and building as anyone. Helk, I have built twenty enclosures for this car, only to throw nineteen on the burn pile.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6094 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I'm not sold. I believe that the problem regarding the move up rule would still exist even if a seperate class for previous invitees existed.
It sounds like the biggest reason competitors don't want to move out of the Street Division is cost, plain and simple. They don't want to purchase more and/or bigger (ie more expensive) gear, they don't want to trailer their vehicle and incur all of the costs associated with that, etc.
I believe the solution needs to be one or more intermediary classes that bridge the gap between Street and Super Street while maintaining some limitations on the equipment being used. We also need to find a way to ensure that "real", off-the-shelf, everday car stereo gear is being used so that the retailer has an opportunity to sell some product.
In the existing Street Division, we strictly limit the mods that can be made to the electrical system of the vehicle in an effort to restrict the maximum power a system can have. I think the only changes that should be considered with regards to Street is 1.) Should we allow a single 15 or 18 to be used in the Street 1-2 Class (or two 15 or 18 inch woofers to be used in Street 3-4) and 2) Should the "move-up" rule be eliminated. I personally believe this rule should be eliminated and that an additional intermediate class be created.
I agree with all this except allowing 15's and 18's. ok, 15" subs maybe but 18" should not be allowed
-------------------- TEAM VIBRATOR 30 Seconds and were DONE 2002 Street 3-4 Spring Break Champion 2002 Street 3-4 FORMER World Record Holder 155.0
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