posted
The dBDRA would like to know how you feel about Quad-Coil woofers in dB Drag Racing competiton. Do you like them or should they be prohibited?
We had one manufacturer tell us that they were not going to participate in dB Drag Racing in the future unless we ban Quad Coil woofers. Our response is that we would do what is best for the sport, regardless of their support or lack thereof.
The argument used is compelling. Quads aren't typically a retail product. One of the goals of dB Drag Racing is to promote the sales of auto sound components. This is why retailers and manufacturers support the sport. Also, a single quad can utilize up to 8 amplifiers. This dramatically increases the cost of a system. If you are an amp manufacturer, it can cost you a TON of money to provide amps to your sponsored competitors.
On the other hand, dB Drag Racing has continually pushed the envelope. There is no question that our sport has had a tremendous impact on the performance and reliability of both amps and woofers alike. Maybe Quads are just the next step in this evolutionary process.
What are your thoughts on this matter?
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
Well depending on the name of that manufacture, then I say to not allow quads.
I think dvc drivers can produce high numbers just as well as the quads can.
That would also make it easier for a street class finalist to move into the next class if the move up rule stays in effect.
I know there is goin to be alot on this one, and I hope I don't get trashed for it, but speaking for the sport, it would be best to do this to get more involved in the higher classes as well in the lower ones to move up and get new memembers to join and so on.
posted
Not in Street but i dont see a problem with them in SS.....maybe just have them not alowed in Street and in NW....but still alowed in all wall based classses.....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
one part of me wants to say "ban quads", why? because the amount of money required in a super street class i getting way out of reach for even a seasoned "hardcore" competitor. 8 amps to one sub? i cant afford that.
On the other hand..
Limiting competitors is a bad thing. quad coils could be considered an "evolutionary" item or whatever and considered good for the growth of the sport (getting louder and more extreme)
im split on the issue...
-------------------- Greg Piper -2002 Mich. Points Champion (172) -2002 dB Drag World Finalist (SS9+) -1997 Ford F-150 -1985 Chevy Astro van Posts: 3019 | From: Houghton MI | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I like the limit to DVC's. Quads are not a normal retail product and are engineered specifically for competition. Plus to max out the power handling the amp costs are doubled. So this at least partially becomes not a competition on who can engineer the best system but who has the most money or can get the best sponsorship. Not long ago I would have been against this but the amount of money you have to spend on amps now is getting ridiculous just for DVC's much less quads.. You pretty much have to have at least 8 amps in 1-2 even with DVC's which should be more than enough. I say dump quads or at least limit them to extreme class.
posted
Im against it besides the fact I have 3 quad coil subs now ; )
I dont think its any more practical than limiting the number of amps you can use. People dont have a problem with the advantage of strapping amps to allow more power so why outlaw the ability to further this by limiting the amount of coils?
Om going to run the quads with only 4 amps personally so I dont see where I would be anymore of a threat than someone with duals and strapped amps
posted
I love my Quads and was even willing to take a chance if "Octos" came out BUT to keep Quads or eliminate them may not be as big of a decision as it seems. With amplifiers in the 5kw to 10kw range coming to the lanes in the very near future, the advantage of Quads may(for now) be less than it has been in the past.
I'm all for anything that limits the cost involved in running a vehicle. As long as the rule affects everyone the same way so things remain fair, then it could do the sport good to limit the costs to the competitors and manufacturers who sponsor them.
posted
In my opinion, the price of maxing out your subs is getting totally out of hand. Also the lower classes, like the 1-2 and 3-4 classes, are becoming a "whom ever wants to mortgage the house" wins. This is not such the problem in the larger classes......yet. One day it will be and just like it has been now, the bar will be raised again. To this I reply...ban quad coils from competiton in all classes BUT extream. I am still under the school that extream is whole diffrent beast. The extream guys are a special breed and to limit them would not be in the best interest in the sport. I will provide my word of warning though...banning quads in the street and SS class will only be a temporary fix. soon enough 4000 watt strapable amps will apear on the market, and they will be pricy. at that point we will simply be spending insane money on 8 huge amps instead of 16 smaller ones. In any event, I hope that CROSSFIRE continues its support of db drag. they are a great company.
PHIL
Posts: 2679 | From: unknown bowels of the underworld | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Just a little food for thought......one reason a price cap will not work....
Used EXP under $1000 Pair of 12" shocker3s $500 D3 brand new $750
In the right hands that is worth a 156db in street class....get it...you should not penalize someone for buyinh more expencive stuff than the next guy...the first place car in s3-4 had a system worth at least 2 ro 3x the equipment in the 2nd place car....for a .4db difference?? Some want to pay to play but if you use your box and car knowlage well enough...you dont have to pay as much....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
posted
I think quads should be banned in superstreet, but not extreme. SS cars are still supposed to be somewhat streetable, and how many cars do you see crusing around with quads in them? Extreme is to the max, and whatever it takes, so quads should be allowed.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7989 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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this was not on mastercard but everything else there is
and i have this in my van now so i think the money cap would not be a good idea and i dont think the quad coil would be that good of taking out so i think it should not be changed
DOUG CHINGO S.S1-2NW
[ 11-11-2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: TEAM MI THUNDER ]
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DOUGLAS CHINGO S.S.1-2NW PANTHERS CAR AUDIO AND SOUND PRODUCTION "OWNER" 2003-dB Drag Retail Member Posts: 247 | From: LANSING MICHIGAN | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Buzz: Quads are not a normal retail product and are engineered specifically for competition.
What about the RFL? looks like it's geared pretty specific towards comps to me.....don't see to many people running around town with a box tuned to 60-70hz.
posted
I'm torn on this one, because I like to save money as much as the next guy. One thing I want to address is this.....
If quads are banned, or limited to extreme only, what are the people who already have quads supposed to do with them? The only people you would be able to sell them to would be extreme competitors. I am thinking there are quite a few people that have them that would be out a serious chunk of change if they were forced to get duals. JMHO
posted
You can not keep the sport from moving forward PERIOD.
That is what it comes down too, if you outlaw them in certain classes there will be 3 other Organizations that dont and you loose Competitors, you just can not do it. Plus who wants to limit the sport that is just plain ignorant.
Eric+
-------------------- Team SPT (Co-Founder)
Former Super Street Deathmatch World Champions Former Super Street 3-4 World Record Holders Former Super Street 3-4 2nd Place World Champions Former Super Street 5+ 2nd Place World Champions 3 Time DBDrag Street World Record Holder 3x MECA World Champion and Record Holder And Helped a Few Break some Records along the way! And Got some help.
posted
banning quads in the SS and extreme classes is not an answer. I work for a manufacturer and we sell many quad coil woofers to people that dont even compete.
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4518 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Buzz: Quads are not a normal retail product and are engineered specifically for competition.
What about the RFL? looks like it's geared pretty specific towards comps to me.....don't see to many people running around town with a box tuned to 60-70hz.
Its a specific product but it falls in the range of one certain class(DVC). I have no problem with anyone trying to use one for daily driving if they want to.. Honestly I personally do not feel it has any kind of unfair advantage in SS whatsoever vs other monster subs out there that could be legitimately used in a daily driving situation.
I have no problem with people going out and getting USAMPS 4000's and using them even though they are comp only amps. You just need one of those as opposed to 2 other large strappable amps so the cost issue almost evens out.
Some things are kind of a judgement call as when Wayne classed the Harrison drag Queen illegal for drag for the reasons he decided. Quads vs VCs are a little more of a black and white issue where there arent really calls to make based on any interpretations.
I certainly respect your different point of view and I see where you are coming from but I am just looking at a larger picture right now.
[ 11-10-2002, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: The Buzz ]
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Quads aren't typically a retail product.
quote:From the 2002 dBDRA rules: 5-2 All auto sound equipment must be (or have been) commercially available.
From an outsider's point of view, the rule that is already in place should have taken care of this issue. If the normal "Joe" (such as myself) can not walk into a audio retail outlet, and purchase a particular piece of equipment, then that piece of equipment does not follow the criteria already set by dBDRA standards.
The flaw that I see within my own comment, is the ability of a retailer (or manufacturer) to price equipemnt so outrageously high for the common consumer, yet offering extremely low pricing to "special" individuals. "If" this was to happen, then it would only circumvent the intention of the dBDRA rules..which falls under the following rule;
quote: From the 2002 dBDRA rules: 13-3 All rules will be enforced based upon their intent.
So, in conclusion, I think any product (including multi coil drivers) should be allowed for use in competition...providing that the driver meets the criteria of being "commercially available".
posted
as usual sid is on the ball good points Sid.
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4518 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
i think it would be good for the industry by removing quads from the db drag scene. I am sure there is more than one company that would like to see this. It would also improve the support that company's would give to competors as well. Since instead of a company giving some 32 amps to use in a 3-4 woofer class . They would be able to give those other 16 amps to someone else. Thus sponsoring 2 people rather than one person. Keep in mind with some of the bigger classes like 9+. This amp total is much greater. It also keeps the total cost down for the competor and manufacture. this in turn would create more sponser deals for people who would not normally get a deal. Becasue the sponsership money is spent on 1 or 2 people. My guess is that 90% of the people running quads are already sponsored. The cost in have them getting the reconed with be very small.How many companyies can db drag afford to lose. Remember if the support goes away from the company's. How many of the big name people would stay or go. how many of the new people would quit competing if they have to spend that much to stay competing?Evan at the lower entry levels classes. Super Street or extreme class. youre talking over 20 grand per person just to compete in a 1-2 woofer class. By the time you have to buy equipment and build a car. Look at finals in the bigger extreme classes. This year the dbdra didnt evan have a full brackets in the top two extreme classes. Mainly due to cost. in past you have had 15-20 cars per class in the extreme class. This year I think the top class was 1-2 with a total of 15 cars. Cost is getting out of control.
Wayne you always say go bigger and louder. But where do you draw the line ? You will start to loose more people than gain in the classes if you have to make a big investment to play in a larger class. With some of these vechiles running quads. It takes twice the amps , twice the batteries. It adds to the total weight of the vechiles as well. then you start to look at the fact there are serious towing concerns , With people towing dangerous vechiles down the highway. If one of these competors gets caught having 50+ batteris in a car. The police could call the epa. Due to people shipping hazards material across state lines. This is a serious fine by the epa. Plus how many people really have the abitly to tow a vechile that wieghs in over 10,000 pounds? How many people have a driver License tow a vehicle that heavy.
-------------------- Anthony Lloyd Full Moon Racing In need of a sponsor . Posts: 3228 | From: Loves Park , Ill | Registered: May 1999
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