posted
well how about max output and actual published msrp.
i am for keeping the classes the same in street but with limits. my friends cant afford zapco 4k amps just for street 1-2. that isnt even a street car. who in thier right mind would put a $6k amp in a street car for 2 12s?
but i also understand that is how cheater amps came out. but using thier highest rated output(published) like using my examples a 2002 model d2 wouldnt go for s1-2. but a memphis 1500d could. this is a way to make people improve thier install or put more into designing instead of heres $10K now lets get a trophy from finals.
i agree with taking ex9-12 and changing it to ex.9+ same as ss9+. add ex 1 to it. street is already getting too far into expensive. it isnt about your install its all about how much money you got. mini street is good for say 1500 watts or less up to 2 12s or 1 15. thats it.
i like the over all classes but didnt like the whole no power or price cap. same as i said last year. that is why i moved out of street class. it was for beginners but nowadays beginners cant afford it.
posted
I understand this point completely, and totally agree with Wayne. The only Drawback to a 1 sub extreme class is that we will have to eliminate or combine some other classes.
It will become a difficult debate on here, having competitors choose between another street class, and an extreme 1 class. It is the nature of competitors to vote for improvements in the division they are in, and more street competitors post on here than extreme.
I do however feel that the Extreme 1 class would make more of an impact on DB drag, and the industry as a whole, in that everyone would be amazed at what some of the competitors in this class would accomplish. I also feel that an Extreme 1 sub class would bring up the level of competition and the scores in ALL the extreme classes because 1 sub competitors would be forced to build more and more efficient designs, instead of just adding more equipment/power. These advances would also find there way into the larger classes, and make for some amazing scores in DB Drag.
I really think extreme 1 is what Db Drag has been needing for the past several years, to get people to step up and realize how much fun the extreme division really is.
I dont want others to think this is a personal crusade, as I do believe that I would get my butt handed to me in this class. I would even give up running in this class, if it could just make it become a reality.
Think about the exposure for the talent in our organization, if the world could just see some 175s being put up with 1 sub.
posted
I think that we could manage 10 classes. Split up like this:
Street A (0-150 inches, stock batt, 1 amp) Street B (151-450 inches, 2 batts, 2 amps)
SS 1 SS 2-3 SS 4-7 SS 8+
Ext 1 Ext 2-3 Ext 4-7 Ext 8+
This format would cut back to 10 classes, allow for 20 invites per class at finals, make shows run faster and be more profitable, and lower the expense level for finals.
posted
I don't like the look of those classes...too many odd numbers I think we should keep the max woofers at even numbers. also I agree power class is dumb and value is dumb it will make teh shows take even longer because of judges having to verify everyone equipment...I say UNLIMITED AMPS and onyl ONE BATTERY in street...that would eliminate the advantage of the 4kw and still limit to power because of the limit one battery would make...as long as that battery would still fit in the stock location just like the current battery rules for street 1-2
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
2 TF One 10" + 1 American Bass 1000.1 + Odyssey 1750 Posts: 2965 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: We elected to use # of woofer classes because it is easy to validate and easy to understand.
From an "outsider's" point of view; If is was determined to be the easier of the two, then why change it now?
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: please include your reasoning in your post.
Having the determining factors for all classes (Street, Super Street, Extreme) remain equal, then there "should" be less confusion. By changing the standards for one class, and not the others, may result in less than desirable result. To change formats for one class, may eventually result in an outcry to change all classes to the proposed classification standard. In conclusion, it is my opinion that the street classification system should not be modified from the present standard.
posted
I think that the addition of 15's in street classes would be great. I just started competing this last year, and I have a 15. I was pretty discouraged to find out that I was gonna be up against vans with 1000's of watts and 2 15's doin 160's. If it hadn't been for ministreet, I wouldn't have competed at all. But after my first competition, I was hooked. I would love to actually be in a class with my 15 and have a chance of doin good, and possibly even goin to finals. I think that allowing a single 15 setup in street would be great, and probably get many more people involved in the sport...
-------------------- current system: pioneer premier 930 eclipse 8052 component set powered by us acoustics 2150 15 inch eclipse titanium powered by a rockford BD 1500.1 all lightning audio wire and a batcap 400
yes it seems funny, but look at the number put out by the 2 subs against the 4, almost identical if you ask me and still give those in the 5 and 9 sub class a shot to get somewhere, since we all see what a 13+ van can do now
quote:Originally posted by ea1: I think that we could manage 10 classes. Split up like this:
Street A (0-150 inches, stock batt, 1 amp) Street B (151-450 inches, 2 batts, 2 amps)
SS 1 SS 2-3 SS 4-7 SS 8+
Ext 1 Ext 2-3 Ext 4-7 Ext 8+
This format would cut back to 10 classes, allow for 20 invites per class at finals, make shows run faster and be more profitable, and lower the expense level for finals.
Even though I didn't compete this past year I was still a paying member of the DBDRA. I think that the above mentioned classes would work out fairly well. In both local and national and world level competitions. Though I think there should be some additional limits placed on street class. Not everyone can afford or even get hold of a 4kw or a D3. But people can and do use things like 1000d's, d2's, 9.0's as well as 2000x's in daily (street) drivers. The class break downs listed by nate above are great but IMO street should be left to real street cars with real street type systems.
Just my thoughts of the moment.
Craig
-------------------- Posts: 1390 | From: Clayton, NC USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Some may think the above mentioned classes are unfair, because they take cars that were previously the largest in their respective class, and makes them smallest in a new class. But its just like realignment in sports. Sometimes changes have to be made for the betterment of an organization, and/or to mix up the competition a little, and allow people to see new competitors in their class.
PS: Remember, bigger isn't always better anyways. Jamie Delepaz only had 6 subs in an 8 sub class, but he sure seemed to do very well.
posted
IF you combine extreme 9-12 and 13+ to make extreme 9+ that would be good. As for street classes two classes is enough. If the classifications for street are to be changed to a cone area classification instead of a number of woofers there are limits to be discussed. Steet 1-2 should allow for anything from 0-299 square inches with the current alternator and battery rules. Street 3-4 would allow 300-599 square inches with no extra battery. New street class 600+ square inches with one battery allowed.
Posts: 49 | From: Hatfield, PA | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Experience has shown that Power limits and price point restrictions will not work. Manufacturers and retailers always find ways to circumvent these restrictions. It also places a tremendous burden on the officiating staff at ALL events to validate equipment, their pricing, and the amount of power the product produces.
Just FYI, the dBDRA originated cone area classes way before idbl even existed. We elected to use # of woofer classes because it is easy to validate and easy to understand.
We cannot increase the number of standard classes beyond 12. In fact, our preference would be to REDUCE the total number of classes to 10 or fewer. It is very expensive and time consuming for show promoters to offer 12 classes at an event.
Realistically, we can add a class to the Street Division (if we combine Ex 9-12 and Ex 13+) or we can add a 1-sub class to Extreme (if we combine Ex 9-12 and Ex 13+). We cannot add a 1 sub class to all divisions.
Ok how about this Have a MAX fuse rating for street classes. That way all you have to do is look under the hood before someone makes a run and have a 1 woofer class max rating of 90 amps,a 2 woofer class with a max of 120amp and a 3+ woofer class with 150 amps it's very easy and fast
quote:Originally posted by ea1: I think that we could manage 10 classes. Split up like this:
Street A (0-150 inches, stock batt, 1 amp) Street B (151-450 inches, 2 batts, 2 amps)
SS 1 SS 2-3 SS 4-7 SS 8+
Ext 1 Ext 2-3 Ext 4-7 Ext 8+
This format would cut back to 10 classes, allow for 20 invites per class at finals, make shows run faster and be more profitable, and lower the expense level for finals.
quote:Originally posted by ea1: I think that we could manage 10 classes. Split up like this:
Street A (0-150 inches, stock batt, 1 amp) Street B (151-450 inches, 2 batts, 2 amps)
As a street 1-2 competitor, I'm not sure I really like these classes. That would make it so in the first class, it would be 2 8s, 1 10 or 1 12, while the second class would be 8 8s, 4 10s, 3 12s or 3 15s. As a competitor with 2 10s, this would completely make the class unwinnable, as going against 3 12s or 3 15s and winning would take a miracle.
I believe if you're going to classify it by sq. inches, it should be 0-230 (1 15 (round or square), 2 12s, 2 10s (round or square), 231-360 and 361+.
I actually like the street classifications the way they are right now though. Most of the shows I've been to have shown pretty fair numbers coming from most of the competitors in these classes.
Posts: 577 | From: wienerpeg canada | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ea1: I think that we could manage 10 classes. Split up like this:
Street A (0-150 inches, stock batt, 1 amp) Street B (151-450 inches, 2 batts, 2 amps)
As a street 1-2 competitor, I'm not sure I really like these classes. That would make it so in the first class, it would be 2 8s, 1 10 or 1 12, while the second class would be 8 8s, 4 10s, 3 12s or 3 15s. As a competitor with 2 10s, this would completely make the class unwinnable, as going against 3 12s or 3 15s and winning would take a miracle.
I believe if you're going to classify it by sq. inches, it should be 0-230 (1 15 (round or square), 2 12s, 2 10s (round or square), 231-360 and 361+.
I actually like the street classifications the way they are right now though. Most of the shows I've been to have shown pretty fair numbers coming from most of the competitors in these classes.
I was basing my numbers on the published SD of drivers. I was meaning up to 1 15 in the first class.
We cannot increase the number of standard classes beyond 12. In fact, our preference would be to REDUCE the total number of classes to 10 or fewer. It is very expensive and time consuming for show promoters to offer 12 classes at an event.
Realistically, we can add a class to the Street Division (if we combine Ex 9-12 and Ex 13+) or we can add a 1-sub class to Extreme (if we combine Ex 9-12 and Ex 13+). We cannot add a 1 sub class to all divisions.
Wayne, I feel that it would benefit the INDUSTRY and COMPETITORS MORE if there was a 1 woofer SUPERSTREET Division. I would bet money that a lot of people would love this idea.
AND, I feel it should be 5-7, then 8 plus in superstreet. I would be a lot more fair. 5-8 is a broad range to cover.
PLEASE consider the 1 woofer in SUPERSTREET, it would be GREAT GREAT GREAT for retailers holding shows and competitors.
Thanks for your time!
-------------------- T3 Audio Incorporated >World Class Subwoofer & Speaker & Amplifier Development< Johnathan Demuth
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them."-- Walt Disney
posted
I love the thought of combining 9-12 and 13+ in extreme and then adding an Extreme 1 sub class. As far as the superstreet classes.........I would leave them the same. And as far as street classes, I could care less what is done with them as long as there are no more than 2 of them. We had hardly any competitors in street at our shows. The Majority were in MSD. Just my thoughts on the subject.
-------------------- Alan Riley Art's Sound Chamber
Fifteen Time SPL World Champions-----26 SPL World Records DB Drag == IASCA == USACi == MECA
Our stats page Posts: 2542 | From: Moberly, MO USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Thanks for the input so far. Let me clarify something at this point. We want this to be a democratic process, but we cannot allow wholesale change because of the huge impact it would have on thousands of competitors.
The following classes should be considered off-limits.
Super Street 1-2 NW Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3-4 Super Street 5-8 Super Street 9+ Extreme 1-2 Extreme 3-4 Extreme 5-8
The following changes should be considered...
Extreme 9-12 and Extreme 13+ should be combined into an Extreme 9+ class because there are not enough participating competitors in these 2 classes to justify 2 seperate classes at the multipoint events.
This leaves the following classes...
Street 1-2 Street 3-4 and 1 "spare" class.
The way I see things, we could leave the Street classes alone or we could change them to "cone area" classes. Cone area classes would permit the use of speakers larger than 12 inches. I would not like to see any other changes to the Street Division classes (such as power limits, price limits, changes in electrical systems, etc.) I believe the current limitations are effective. The real question should be, "Cone area or leave it be?"
As for the 1 remaining "spare" class, it could be used for Street, Super Street, Extreme, or it could simply be eliminated. We really need to reduce the total number of classes so that we can fill the brackets at multipoint events.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
OK..the best thing to do is to make it simple and easy like wayne said...we dont want to have too many changes or else it would take away much more from the sport than it would give to it.....
Classes as follows
Street 1-2 (with the addition of a single 15" or 18"to be alowed)
Street 3-4 (no change)
SS NW
SS 1-2
SS 3-4 [/b](all Superstreet classes unchanged)[/b]
SS 5-8
SS 9+
EX 1 (added class)
EX 2
EX 3-4
EX 5-8
EX 9+ (combind 9-12 & 13+ to make room for EX 1)
This would be the most benifital and make the most overall happy...the single 15/18 in street class has been talked about since i started in '00 and the EX 1 sub class seems to be a unanimous decision as well as the combination of EX 9-12 and 13+.......i have seen at least 2-3 people not enter in our local shows because there single 15 & one amp would not stand a chance against 2 15/18s and 4+ amps & batts......
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