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pffffffffffffffff,i run 2 d2's (original alt) and those amps need all the power they can get,if rules are allowing 4 amps(4d2's) than i definitly need the car too turn,otherwise the amps could go into protection because they do not get enough power,do you understand me(it is recomended 2 batteries for 1 d2 so do you get my point)
off the record,if i place 4 more batteries i gain 2.6db so i need every power i can get
-------------------- PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM DTF BELGIUM 2001 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 154.9DB 2002 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 155.1db and going up 2002 2ND AT EUROPEAN FINALS STREET 3-4 max 155.7db 2002 BENELUXCHAMPION STREET 3-4 153.7db 2003 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET B 150.4DB 3* DLS SP12 3* EARTHQUAKE D2 Posts: 133 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
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and smaler car also means that my trunk is not big,i can't place 4 woofers in this car and play good aswell
-------------------- PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM DTF BELGIUM 2001 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 154.9DB 2002 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 155.1db and going up 2002 2ND AT EUROPEAN FINALS STREET 3-4 max 155.7db 2002 BENELUXCHAMPION STREET 3-4 153.7db 2003 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET B 150.4DB 3* DLS SP12 3* EARTHQUAKE D2 Posts: 133 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by 206dbdragger: pffffffffffffffff,i run 2 d2's (original alt) and those amps need all the power they can get,if rules are allowing 4 amps(4d2's) than i definitly need the car too turn,othewise teh amps could go into protection because they do not get enough power,do you understand me(it is recommended 2 batteries for 1 d2 so do you get my point)
and yet you got mad when I suggested that you were saying this for personnal gain and not the betterment of the organization
quote:Originally posted by jliehr: I think our judges do a great job and I know they will make 2003 the best year yet!
I agree, but this is going to make it REALLY hard on them now.
Enforcement may not be easy, but the shows that matter, such as 2X, 3X, and Finals should require cars to be open for inspection and reasonable viewable.
Then it will take a dedication on each competitors behalf to help the judges identify possible issues in a calm, rational and timely manner. Trust me, once a show is over is not the best time to bring up a potential cheater. If you see something fishy, politely request that the judge check it out before the vehicle's next run.
With all these New little sticklers,2x and 3x shows will have to start with inspections at 6am and trophy presentation at 8pm
Here I was all pissed off last year when we had to wait an hour for a judgement on Jumpseats in a truck. Now it looks like we'll have to bring twice as many beers,sodas and sandwiches to wait out all the confusion thats ahead.
quote:Originally posted by 206dbdragger: that is not the point,my point isz that wayne is not looking at what happens in other countries,here you will not find street cars who have a 5000cc and so a big alt,respect other countries also
Don't disrespect Wayne, he IS caring about us! (E.g. the thickness of the damping material is limited by a METRIC measure - and this cause of EUROPEAN circumstances)
But I also can understand your opinion. I'm only driving a 600ccm car called MCC smart:
And my OEM batterie is only about 20 x 17 cm ( 8" x 7") big.
The biggest battery fitting in the OEM location is only a little bit larger than the OEM battery:
So I'm against the prohibition of running engines, but I'll take it if the Americans can prevent many problems with this rule! (I don't think the "OEM alternators" will be a problem in Europe)
Üüüüühh!!! Matze
P.S.: We have to care about the "AMERICAN PROBLEMS" as much as we wanted them to care about the EUROPEAN PROBELMS.
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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if i have the problem i am sure all the other guys have the same problem
-------------------- PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM DTF BELGIUM 2001 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 154.9DB 2002 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 155.1db and going up 2002 2ND AT EUROPEAN FINALS STREET 3-4 max 155.7db 2002 BENELUXCHAMPION STREET 3-4 153.7db 2003 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET B 150.4DB 3* DLS SP12 3* EARTHQUAKE D2 Posts: 133 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
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With "problem" I meant the tact of getting any "OEM-modified" alternators like within the "police package", which nobody can control.
Or do your 206 has an option to get with another alternator?
Üüüüühh!!! Matze
P.S.: I understand your opinion, in these small european cars isn't as much place in the OEM location for a large battery as in this US-Trucks... ..but if a rule will be MUCH expenditure to control and there's an option which is controlled very easily, it's okay.
P.P.S.: Don't forget: It's not important what's the best for YOU (and me, too), but for the ORGANIZATION!
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by drummerzs: I don't think the new rule about keeping street cars runnin in the lanes is a good idea and here is why. Even if you leave you car running for the hole competition you never get the battery back up to full steam after a few runs.If you let street competitors charge there batteries between runs it will not help because a lot of venues don't have the ability to give every one juice for there chargers.
Looks like we'll just have to head for the freeway between rounds to get that juice back up.
quote:Originally posted by drummerzs: I don't think the new rule about keeping street cars runnin in the lanes is a good idea and here is why. Even if you leave you car running for the hole competition you never get the battery back up to full steam after a few runs.If you let street competitors charge there batteries between runs it will not help because a lot of venues don't have the ability to give every one juice for there chargers.
Looks like we'll just have to head for the freeway between rounds to get that juice back up.
Yeah, OR limiting RPM to 1300 on SUV's, Trucks, and vans?? Maybe even wording it like this "RPM will be limited to 2000 RPM for passenger cars, and any Trucks, SUV's, and vans will be limited to 1300 RPMs"
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Matze: With "problem" I meant the tact of getting any "OEM-modified" alternators like within the "police package", which nobody can control.
Or do your 206 has an option to get with another alternator?
Üüüüühh!!! Matze
P.S.: I understand your opinion, in these small european cars isn't as much place in the OEM location for a large battery as in this US-Trucks... ..but if a rule will be MUCH expenditure to control and there's an option which is controlled very easily, it's okay.
P.P.S.: Don't forget: It's not important what's the best for YOU (and me, too), but for the ORGANIZATION!
no, no option for the alternator,its original
-------------------- PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM DTF BELGIUM 2001 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 154.9DB 2002 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 155.1db and going up 2002 2ND AT EUROPEAN FINALS STREET 3-4 max 155.7db 2002 BENELUXCHAMPION STREET 3-4 153.7db 2003 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET B 150.4DB 3* DLS SP12 3* EARTHQUAKE D2 Posts: 133 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
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I think the vehicle should be running. It makes it more fun! After all, the vehicle is running while your driving down the road.
Keeping the vehicle from running is like having a speaker box in the shape of a car.
Let them run, get the juice up, don't worry about alts and police packages, cause we're not going to see those anyway ... just 1-2 people complaining that aren't even members that have loyalties to other organizations.
A simple manual from any parts store will tell you what the OEM alternator is. These can be obtained free. If you would like a copy, let me know. If there is a question of alt upgrades, then a simple clamp on amp meter would do the trick.
What? Not everyone has these? Well at single point events, all you have to gain by cheating is improving your average SPL score during the year. I'll catch ya at a multipoint event.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8436 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: I think the vehicle should be running. It makes it more fun! After all, the vehicle is running while your driving down the road.
Keeping the vehicle from running is like having a speaker box in the shape of a car.
Let them run, get the juice up, don't worry about alts and police packages, cause we're not going to see those anyway ... just 1-2 people complaining that aren't even members that have loyalties to other organizations.
A simple manual from any parts store will tell you what the OEM alternator is. These can be obtained free. If you would like a copy, let me know. If there is a question of alt upgrades, then a simple clamp on amp meter would do the trick.
What? Not everyone has these? Well at single point events, all you have to gain by cheating is improving your average SPL score during the year. I'll catch ya at a multipoint event.
thats the spirit
-------------------- PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM DTF BELGIUM 2001 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 154.9DB 2002 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET 3-4 155.1db and going up 2002 2ND AT EUROPEAN FINALS STREET 3-4 max 155.7db 2002 BENELUXCHAMPION STREET 3-4 153.7db 2003 BENELUXRECORDHOLDER STREET B 150.4DB 3* DLS SP12 3* EARTHQUAKE D2 Posts: 133 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
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a 1300 rpm limit on SUVs would be useless; It would be so easy to have an overdrive crank pulley made; also, you could put a smaller alt. pulley on, too.
that option won't work! I can see it now. Steve, Sam, and David will be under cars, at finals, measuring the crank pulleys, and then comparing the measurements to service manual records.
-------------------- Andrew Harper
2002 STREET 3-4 6th Place World Finals 2003 Street B 2nd Place Spring Break Nationals Posts: 1702 | From: Vero Beach, FL | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: I think the vehicle should be running. It makes it more fun! After all, the vehicle is running while your driving down the road.
Keeping the vehicle from running is like having a speaker box in the shape of a car.
well put! as for people and there loyalties.... well I can only speak for the people I know and they are very loyal. passion for the sport can bring out the best, the worst and everything in-between, people are gonna get hot some times. They are on here because they care....
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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so now you have to be a member (before the rules are even out and you even know if you are able to compete this season) and you can't compete in other organizations for your opinion to count....YEAH that's the spirit...NOT. I think the most frustrating part for everyone is this crap about "NO MAJOR CHANGES" and we are now almost to Feb with 10 drafts of rules, and still nothing is final. Face it people...there will always be loop holes, there will always be cheaters, there will always be whiners and there will always be people who get their way...it's life...it happens everywhere. If Wayne had to write a rule book that addressed EVER SINGLE possibility then you would basically have the bible all over again. Look the move up rule being removed was hard for some people, but once it was decided then everyone just dealt with it, but now you want to bring up a bunch of other crap, like the 4k shouldn't be allowed, or if it should then people should have the option of purchasing two amps that equal (or at least attempt to equal) the power of the 4k....well you know what no matter what it is all going to cost money, bottom line. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't, if you do then do it. I personally think that the rules should have been left the way they were. At this rate we are going to be half way through the season before the rules are set, and by that time there will be so many people who don't even have their systems done (up to code with the new rules) that they won't even bother.
Just finish the rules, post them, and eveyone get to building, purchasing, and competing.
Posts: 217 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by firefly: so now you have to be a member (before the rules are even out and you even know if you are able to compete this season) and you can't compete in other organizations for your opinion to count....YEAH that's the spirit...NOT. I think the most frustrating part for everyone is this crap about "NO MAJOR CHANGES" and we are now almost to Feb with 10 drafts of rules, and still nothing is final. Face it people...there will always be loop holes, there will always be cheaters, there will always be whiners and there will always be people who get their way...it's life...it happens everywhere. If Wayne had to write a rule book that addressed EVER SINGLE possibility then you would basically have the bible all over again. Look the move up rule being removed was hard for some people, but once it was decided then everyone just dealt with it, but now you want to bring up a bunch of other crap, like the 4k shouldn't be allowed, or if it should then people should have the option of purchasing two amps that equal (or at least attempt to equal) the power of the 4k....well you know what no matter what it is all going to cost money, bottom line. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't, if you do then do it. I personally think that the rules should have been left the way they were. At this rate we are going to be half way through the season before the rules are set, and by that time there will be so many people who don't even have their systems done (up to code with the new rules) that they won't even bother.
Just finish the rules, post them, and eveyone get to building, purchasing, and competing.
I have to agree, there comes a time when we all have to conform to rules we dont like. Just do your best and if it wasn't good enough to win try harder or give up! Those are the options like it or not. Wayne will never be able to please everybody and in general I don't think life is fair but in the end we all deal with it the best way possible. Just my .02
William Williams
-------------------- Member of Team Triple Threat Posts: 169 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Dec 2000
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My head is spinning and my Shockers are collecting dust. Let's do this. Enduro in 2004.
Posts: 494 | From: So Cal | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by bayvanman: I agree with everything EXCEPT the Street rules... It's nice to price people out...
I still do not understand some people's reasoning here. To be competitive at finals in the last two years a person needed a 4KW. A 4KW costs $2000 and up. Under the new rules, a person with two, $325 each, used D2's could be very competitive with the 4KW. Please explain the logic behind your statement?
Wayne, most of us appreciate you leveling the playing field!!
And there is an awful lot of us that DO NOT LIVE IN THE USA!!! A 4kw in the UK is £3600 retail that equates to $5928 US Dollars!!! Fair enough, you don't have to buy a 4KW, you could buy a D2's...if we could get them over here. There are other countries across Europe that suffer from high import and retail costs.
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