I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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I agree too....... but you guys, something had to be done....this ia about the most logical resulution I can see, I mean give wayne a little credit here....insead of worrieing abut where you are going to buy your 4KW, D4, Us6000x, you can worry about buying something that posesses two things...flexability (in brand and usage) and afordbility...I mean the 4 kw's can't be had for much under 2 grand...used, you could go buy 2 D2's now spend less than a grand, and still have he same amplafcation opertunities as anyone else... if anything, wayne is still hurting the peps that have these amps...how much demand COST is going to drop now...that 2000 dollar use amp will be sitting on someones shelf for years, because there is MANY different ways to get 4000 watts now....
it may be more of a change than anyone wanted...but ane thing everyone wanted got addressed...to level the playing field...for most people...
posted
I have said it before, and I will say it again...........what is so wrong with the way it was?? Sure there were a few with the 4KW's the D3's etc. But so what?? Most of the top people at finals didn't even have these until right before finals, ya know what that means?? it means that they actually worked on thier systems, they built box after box after box, got everything tuned right, THEN got the amp, I mean come on, sure getting one of the "moster" amps will give you a decent score, but it is the ones that actually WORKED on thier systems first that ends up at the top, this whole street class is turning into who ever can afford the most wins, well ya know what? I don't know of any sport that players have to pay to play, are you going to tell me that Mark Mcgwire, Berry Bonds, Etc. has to pay for baseball bats, shoes?? No, I don't think so, let's take Nascar since everyone wants to compare the two, what driver do you know that buys his own car? What driver do you know pays for the equpment for the car? All the cars are the same, it is the DRIVER that make the difference, so why shouldn't this be the same? it should be all in the install, should it not? Especially in street
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Oh and just for the record, I dont, and never have had a problem with the 4KW's, the D3's etc........It should be left alone, sure remove the move up rule because it was "too hard to police" ya keep adding stupid rules...................you don't think that THOSE are going to be hard to police? HA! We'll see. Ya know it's funny cause I have competed in IASCA, USACi, and dBdrag, and NEVER seen rules so hard to enforce, or follow (now) than dBdrag's, dBdrag has turned into "who cares about the new guys" and that is where the business is, in my opinion going to get ran right into the ground. You have to have a place for someone to start, this "mini street" crap is just that.............CRAP, someone coming into mini street, has nothing to shoot for, no finals, nothing, and then there is the thing that the promoter can set a cap on the SPL, ok, say the cap is 140dB, the "newbie" hits a 143dB, he thinks "ok, well that's pretty good, I should do ok in Street 1-2, ok, go for it, put me in there"......what happens?? That's right, you have others there doing 153 + in Street 1-2, guess what? I can almost promise you that this "newbie" will not show back up at another comp, and THIS is where dBdrag will fall, because there will not be enough new people coming into this sport to support it. Or running people out of the "sport"
**Disclaimer** This is just my own personal opinions, and does not reflect the views of anyone associated with our team......well, maybe a couple........but not the whole team.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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why cant a new pro street be made, and mini street eliminated, and turned into street..
Street A - 1 amp, 2 12" or 1 15 Street B - 1 amp, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18"
Pro Street A- 4 unbr. chan, 2 12" or 1 15" Pro street B- 8 unbr. Chan, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18
this way, the "pros" can have their class, and the everyday joes, the newbies, and everyone else who is "not so serious" can compete in street. simple solution but obviously too hard for everyone to understand.
posted
I know I have already posted this, but let's face it, the 4kw has started this whole problem in the first place, so just ban 4 chann amps and keep it the way it is. Besides, 4 amps in street B???? Come on, you tell me one retailer or competitor that thinks that is right for a "street" class. Also the mini street class doesn't fix the problem either.
-------------------- Team Custom Team Powerbass Team Powermaster Team Ascendant/Fi Team Soundigital Posts: 595 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Personally.. I think the amplifier rules should stay the same as they were.. sure there might be amps like the 4kw.. but lets face it.. they'll just find another way around the rules.. but now to stay competitive all the street competitors will have to go out and buy another amp.. that doesnt seem really too fair to me!?!?
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pipebomb: I have to agree with rick,
why cant a new pro street be made, and mini street eliminated, and turned into street..
Street A - 1 amp, 2 12" or 1 15 Street B - 1 amp, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18"
Pro Street A- 4 unbr. chan, 2 12" or 1 15" Pro street B- 8 unbr. Chan, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18
this way, the "pros" can have their class, and the everyday joes, the newbies, and everyone else who is "not so serious" can compete in street. simple solution but obviously too hard for everyone to understand.
posted
I would say don't bitch people...I mean 2 D2s is alot cheaper then a 4KW...so basically this allows people who can't afford the 4KW to be compeitive...it also makes people who can't afford two amps be WAY behind however I would honestly say that if you can't afford two $350 amps you aren't a really serious compeitor anyways cause that isn't really very much considering that the 4kw that other champions had to buy was $2000+
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3169 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by pipebomb: I have to agree with rick,
why cant a new pro street be made, and mini street eliminated, and turned into street..
Street A - 1 amp, 2 12" or 1 15 Street B - 1 amp, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18"
Pro Street A- 4 unbr. chan, 2 12" or 1 15" Pro street B- 8 unbr. Chan, 4 12" or 2 15 or 1 18
this way, the "pros" can have their class, and the everyday joes, the newbies, and everyone else who is "not so serious" can compete in street. simple solution but obviously too hard for everyone to understand.
just my opinion..
take away the 18, change street to mini street, pro street to street and that is how it is on the books as of now?!?!?!?! Is the names of the class what makes people trip? Mini street can be whatever the shop sees fit.I know of a shop in Fresno that has been addin his own classes for years and people off the street who didn't know better(aka newbies) love it. Go Jay!!
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by BoomKing: I know I have already posted this, but let's face it, the 4kw has started this whole problem in the first place, so just ban 4 chann amps and keep it the way it is. Besides, 4 amps in street B???? Come on, you tell me one retailer or competitor that thinks that is right for a "street" class. Also the mini street class doesn't fix the problem either.
EXACTLY. how many people do you actually see running a four channel amp (that isnt a 4kw) to subs? like someone said in another post, the 4kw is pretty much the only "4 channel" that you can run and be competitive with. it wouldnt be hard to keep street the way it is and have a black list of amps for street class like splenduro does.
from what ive seen people say, im under the impression that a handful of people bought 4kw's after finals. why should the rules be changed to help them? im sure they knew the 4kw is somewhat of a grey area. no offense to them but they should have waited until after rule changes to make a big purchase like a 4kw.
or like i mentioned awhile ago and pipebomb mentioned now, make a pro street and have the "new street rules" be only for that class so the 4 kilowatters can play with others who have equally powered systems.
posted
I am not trying to dis credit anyone, but I think alot of people were griping about the rules in hope to get the big amps banned, and now tht that has NOT happened, a few people are upset because of the rules were made to work around the big amps, so that no ne really get's hurt. I think If this cheater amp syndrome would have got niped in the butt when it came about ALOT of people would be real happy with thing the way they were...but, it didn't and now, how can some compitiors say this amp is no good, simply on the reasoning other that it is unafordable...(because of wayne ohm's law thread) It would be very wrong to make anyone move and anyone buy more stuff... All I got to say is this...if it's all install (and it is like 95% of it) then the new rules shouldn't matter...jus because you can buy two amps now...if you did good with one...don't buy a second one...the rules won't hurt you at all because your install will make up for it...
a leveling need to be made, and it has been....I think this is the best draft yet.
furthermore...yes rick, your right, nascar peps don't buy ther own gear, and neither do major legue baseball players, but the are pros... like extreem or SS classes...go to your local joe dirt track (where the beginners are) and jus look and see how many of them have to pay to play. They usaly build there race/demo/derby/cart cars right in there garages and recive little to no help at all. And how many beginners in base ball can go to the store and ask for a free glove.. point made, unless your a pro (SPONSERSHIPS) you DO hve to pay to play. I think there should be a limi to that...but if you can tell me how the manufatures and retailers will sell 2000 watt amps for 250 bucks new...and NOT go broke...I will be ver surpried...Playing is not free, and sience we can't keep out the 5000$MSRP amps...something need to be adujusted to where the compitior could keep up with out spending 2-5K on an amp....the rules NOW do that...
posted
and just for understanding...and another point...
there is presently no way to make a beginner street and a pro street that have there points tracked....the software will not allow it...
I do though like the idea of naming mini street "STREET" and calling what is presently street "PROSTREET" NOT canging any f the rules...just the names... reasoning...how old is our typical beginer 16-21 now most peps in this range are very sensitive to peer presure and the whole pop culture, gotta be cool looking socity...now if they go to a show and they want to compete, they might go into street, just so they are not being belittled by going into minisreet. They want t lok cool and don't want to be in the mini class because they think they are so "bad" well, hen they get stomped and never come back for fear of future embarasment... it's like calling a 18y/o male who is not an adult yet...a little boy...how well does that go over?
quote:Originally posted by HGCA: and just for understanding...and another point...
there is presently no way to make a beginner street and a pro street that have there points tracked....the software will not allow it...
I do though like the idea of naming mini street "STREET" and calling what is presently street "PROSTREET" NOT canging any f the rules...just the names... reasoning...how old is our typical beginer 16-21 now most peps in this range are very sensitive to peer presure and the whole pop culture, gotta be cool looking socity...now if they go to a show and they want to compete, they might go into street, just so they are not being belittled by going into minisreet. They want t lok cool and don't want to be in the mini class because they think they are so "bad" well, hen they get stomped and never come back for fear of future embarasment... it's like calling a 18y/o male who is not an adult yet...a little boy...how well does that go over?
Either way, I think that what ever it is...mini or just street, need to goto finals, other wise like I have said before, there is nothing to shoot for.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I would have to disagree Rick. There are 30 or 40 people who are even serious about going to finals in street 1-2. The intro class has literally THOUSANDS of competitors, 99% of which don't care about points or finals one bit.
posted
...I think everyone is too caught up in the amplifier thing, I'd like it to be simply 4 non-bridged channels, because the battery/charging system limitations will end up evening things out anyway,
- however,
if there were State Championships where only 2 non-bridged channels were allowed, and points from the 1x,2x, and 3x events went into either their world finals points folder, or their State Championship points folder, but not both, it would have the effect of allowing another level of competition nearer to the bottom without adding any more classes for those who either cant afford 4 channels or would just prefer to stay close to home, and are content to be only a State Champion rather than a World Finalist.
And instead of these State Championship competitors having to fight their way to accruing points against the superior 4 channel systems, they could get points based on their qualifying score as signed up for 'State' not 'World' (this would also help to eliminate sand-bagging) while they would still have to compete in the overall competition.
Possibly the following season, they could afford to get a 2nd amp or two more channels and go for the World Finals, after having possibly gotten 1st -5th place as a State Champion.
- It's like adding 250 more 'high-level' trophys each year (50 states, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, & 5th) for those who are reasonably serious but not so serious as to invest the time and money it requires to compete in, and travel to the World Finals.
Plus I believe it might also have the effect of promoting further interest in the sport in States where there has been little or no interest in the past.
ALSO, If a local competitor felt he had a chance at State Championships, even though he might know that he cannot compete with those who are on a World Finals level, he might be more motivated not only to want to attend more competitions, but possibly also to call on his local retailer to ask for more events.
- The winners of the State Championships would be based not on a seperate event but an accrual of both points and average dB accumulated from having attended a minimum number of events throughout the season, and would be found only on the Termpro website along with the names of the World Finals Winners.
This would at least give them bragging rights, and hopefully stimulate and help heat-up the local competitions, now that they have something to shoot for like the title of State Champion.
Trophys could be mailed to the winners at the end of the season, and the cost of the trophys could come from a seperate $5-$10 fee required to put their name on the list for State Championship consideration.
Just a thought...
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
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Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by 206dbdragger: for you guys each amp is cheaper then over here in europe,d2 costs 1150$ bd1500 costs near 2000$ when yoy guys buy 2 amps we buy 1 think about that,people that don't have a lott of cash,and were glad that they could afford that 1 amp they chose now have too get another one too play on top again...
i agree with you, but anyway here in Slovenia or in other maybe not so developed countries, you have to pay a lot and salaries are waaaay lower...
for example... if i want to buy JBL 1200.1, I have to save THREE months salaries..., to buy two of them... half a year not to spend even a cent.
On the other hand I would really like to compete with the big guys... maybe sometimes even on Eurofinals...
And i don't think that would be punushing the guys who already have 4kW's, THAT IS PUNISHING THE OTHERS WHO DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY.
Regards, Edi
-------------------- empeter, 22.02.2003, 150,1 dB SA 1.place Gameljne, 05.04.2003, 152,4 dB SA 1.place Sinsheim, 12-13.04.2003, European Spring Break 3X, 148,3dB SA 3.place Koper, 03.05.2003, 153,4 dB SA 1.place Velden (A), 31.05.2003, 147,9 dB SA 1.place Naklo, 22.06.2003, 155,4 dB SA 1.place Koper, 31.08.2003, 153,0 dB SA 1.place Goričan, 20.9.2003, 3x, 148,4 dB SA 1. place SA Gameljne, 11.10.2003, 154,0 dB SA 1.place Dravni Prvak Slovenije dB-Drag Street A Dravni Prvak Hrvake dB-Drag Street A Balkan's LouDDest DDaily DDriven Vehicle Padova - Italy, 02.11.2003, 148,9dB Street A Posts: 86 | From: Slovenia | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Here's something to think about while whinging about the amp laws:
If you go to a comp with a 81000d or bp1200 or something 'normal' and compete with a guy with a 4kw and he beats you, people go hey that guy spent heaps on that amp, its to be expected. If you use your brain and do enough R&D to beat the bastard then everyone will be like, wow that guys won even though the other guy spent more on his amp than your entire system. You get alot more respect.
Also note (along a similar line) the world record is held by a single Orion xtr 2400, and is 4db clear of any 4kw (in 2002 results anyway)
Posts: 31 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote: osolow: Also note (along a similar line) the world record is held by a single Orion xtr 2400, and is 4db clear of any 4kw (in 2002 results anyway)
Well that makes his design only 6dB or so louder than anything we have here... Sure that's not only highly credible, but seems to be totally believeable and makes perfect sense, after it's only 6dB (taking into account of course the difference in power) no problem
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
--------------------
Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by osolow: Also note (along a similar line) the world record is held by a single Orion xtr 2400, and is 4db clear of any 4kw (in 2002 results anyway)
But imagine if Tapani did have a 4kw, 160db in s1-2? wait thats probably 3 years salary over there.
IMO the new amp rule just makes it so whatever car has the biggest stock alt & battery location wins.
[ 01-28-2003, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Andu ]
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158.2dB SS1-2NW Posts: 154 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by osolow: Also note (along a similar line) the world record is held by a single Orion xtr 2400, and is 4db clear of any 4kw (in 2002 results anyway)[/QB]
But don't forget - this car isn't within the 2003 rules of the thickness of the damping material .. so wait if he'd get the same score again...
Üüüühh!!! Matze
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Ok....lets just create a class for everyone. All you people bitching. Are not listening. Go here http://www.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=45;t=000018 and when you understan what wayne is saying then start bitching cause all of u dont understan that the 4kw realy isnt that big of gain. Hey hgca the 4kw will still will be alittle better then 2 class d's cause its regulated. But like you said easly over came with install. Also i am one of them "stupid" people that bought a 4kw. One month ago. But now i wish I wouldn't of. A: cause i have a amp I cant get what i have into out of it probaly. b: could of been half way to the amps i needed for 1-2ss C: I would of bought 2 81000d's if i knew the rules where going to be this way and run a amp the store i support sells. So now i dont want to go into the "cry baby" class any more. Thats what i am calling it now. All you dont understan....THE CROWN WOULD BE URE BITCH IF IT WASNT THE 4KW. So banning 4 channels isnt the answer cause then it will be still.....I cant afford a crown...blah blah blah. Cause you people dont understan wayne's post. The reason I bought it was to compete in a class i could afford. Look at 1-2 ss and 1-2 ss nw it takes 16 class d's to compete. So I going to take my amp...if I can't sell it. And do local comps with it.
Can you say 1 sub 1 amp 1 ex HEY EA1 EMAIL ME ...LOL
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