posted
Well when people vote. They will vote to bump up the 4kw. Cause the few of us that have them. Either new or used will be screwed. But o well. Kyle and all other 4kw owners. We need to all do a ss or ex car. Also i will love it when a few of the people who had them and sold them and made money. Will turn around and vote to bump them up. 2yrs its been this way i say leave it, like i said earlier. If it ant the 4kw it will be the crown in all the cars at finals. So all the people that dont like the 4kw. I asked what did you gain by bumping it up. I will tell u nothing except screwing the 4kw owners.
quote:Originally posted by 206dbdragger: just 1 comment ,if you can use 4 amps in s3-4 how are we able to feed them,if theire is still a max of 2 batteries alowed,this could cause amps to go in protection
It will be no different than feeding 2 4kwts now....you may not get full output but you will get a gain over 2 amps....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Well when people vote. They will vote to bump up the 4kw. Cause the few of us that have them. Either new or used will be screwed. But o well. Kyle and all other 4kw owners. We need to all do a ss or ex car. Also i will love it when a few of the people who had them and sold them and made money. Will turn around and vote to bump them up. 2yrs its been this way i say leave it, like i said earlier. If it ant the 4kw it will be the crown in all the cars at finals. So all the people that dont like the 4kw. I asked what did you gain by bumping it up. I will tell u nothing except screwing the 4kw owners.
I will agree that if you bump the 4kw up you are making it a little harder on them to win in a different class. If you leave the 4kw in the street classes what does it mean to the people that don't have one? Most of them will complain instead of working on their street car to make it louder. It has been proven that the 4kw can win but there were also street cars that did not have them to place at world finals. I say leave it with draft #8. It seems to be the best compromise.
William Williams
-------------------- Member of Team Triple Threat Posts: 169 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Well when people vote. They will vote to bump up the 4kw. Cause the few of us that have them. Either new or used will be screwed. But o well. Kyle and all other 4kw owners. We need to all do a ss or ex car. Also i will love it when a few of the people who had them and sold them and made money. Will turn around and vote to bump them up. 2yrs its been this way i say leave it, like i said earlier. If it ant the 4kw it will be the crown in all the cars at finals. So all the people that dont like the 4kw. I asked what did you gain by bumping it up. I will tell u nothing except screwing the 4kw owners.
Your opinion is only to help yourself, not the organization.
-------------------- 2003 8th place World finals finish Loudest 1st Gen crx in the WORLD Loudest street A slotport Team DB Audio Loudest stock Car at usaci finals 159.8 Posts: 1405 | From: tulsa, ok | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by osolow: Also just to be finicky - section 6.7 refers to the classes as street 1-2 and 3-4 still.
Thanks for the heads up.
I do not believe that Rev 8 has made the Street Division any more expensive than in 2002. In fact, I believe just the opposite is true. Competitors wishing to be competitive at the National Level will be required to install a 4K or 2 equivalent amplifiers. This is how it was in 2001 and 2002. Nothing has changed. Personally, I no longer believe that the Street Division is for "entry-level" competitors. The people competing in this class are as dedicated and serious about the competition as anyone else. Although the rule book is not finalized as of yet, I would like to finish this prior to Monday. Now is the time to comment.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by osolow: Also just to be finicky - section 6.7 refers to the classes as street 1-2 and 3-4 still.
Thanks for the heads up.
I do not believe that Rev 8 has made the Street Division any more expensive than in 2002. In fact, I believe just the opposite is true. Competitors wishing to be competitive at the National Level will be required to install a 4K or 2 equivalent amplifiers. This is how it was in 2001 and 2002. Nothing has changed. Personally, I no longer believe that the Street Division is for "entry-level" competitors. The people competing in this class are as dedicated and serious about the competition as anyone else. Although the rule book is not finalized as of yet, I would like to finish this prior to Monday. Now is the time to comment.
From a retailers point of view, please either A
Limit street A to 2 channels of amplification
or
Allow 4 strappable mono-blocks in street A or 8 in street B so that certain companies won't be forced to make a dual amp/ single chassis product just so that they can be a part of the organization.
-------------------- Quietest member of Broken Silence Competition Club
Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
wow.. how confusing is this going to be for a average local competitor in the street class... trying to figure out if your amp is "internally bridged" etc etc...
i say keep it simple with one amp and ban the high power amps. its simple..
-------------------- Greg Piper -2002 Mich. Points Champion (172) -2002 dB Drag World Finalist (SS9+) -1997 Ford F-150 -1985 Chevy Astro van Posts: 3019 | From: Houghton MI | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote: pipebomb: ...how confusing is this going to be for a average local competitor in the street class... trying to figure out if your amp is "internally bridged...
This won't be hard at all, there will only be at the most 30-40 monoblock amps on the market, and almost anyone here on Termpro can answer the question of the legality of any amp in question.
If they're competing on that high a level in Street1-2 that they need to have 2 monoblocks, they are no doubt on Termpro.
-------------------- "I'm feeling very humble lately, but I'm sure I have the strength of character to fight it" -Bob Hope
"Only YOU can prevent AMPLIFIRES!" -jarfunkz
--------------------
Q Senior Member Original Member # 740 Posts: 1934 | From: Somewhere Out Mountainbiking The Sierra Nevada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by jliehr: From a retailers point of view, please either A
Limit street A to 2 channels of amplification
or
Allow 4 strappable mono-blocks in street A or 8 in street B so that certain companies won't be forced to make a dual amp/ single chassis product just so that they can be a part of the organization.
As the rules are currently worded, your second option is in effect.
I am not totally opposed to your first option but it would affect a LOT of competitors who have already been competing in Street A.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by jliehr: From a retailers point of view, please either A
Limit street A to 2 channels of amplification
or
Allow 4 strappable mono-blocks in street A or 8 in street B so that certain companies won't be forced to make a dual amp/ single chassis product just so that they can be a part of the organization.
As the rules are currently worded, your second option is in effect.
I am not totally opposed to your first option but it would affect a LOT of competitors who have already been competing in Street A.
I think that the first option is the best way to go. Limit to 2 amps and you can only have 2 channels. This would make db drag much more affordable to the beginning consumer. You could have the same power as everyone else and spend as little as $400. This does limit people who already have 4kw's, but they are not outlawed because they could use them in street 3-4. Because of the great features of the zapco amp, they would still be highly competitive against 4 mono-block type amps.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7989 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by jliehr: From a retailers point of view, please either A
Limit street A to 2 channels of amplification
or
Allow 4 strappable mono-blocks in street A or 8 in street B so that certain companies won't be forced to make a dual amp/ single chassis product just so that they can be a part of the organization.
As the rules are currently worded, your second option is in effect.
I am not totally opposed to your first option but it would affect a LOT of competitors who have already been competing in Street A.
I think that the first option is the best way to go. Limit to 2 amps and you can only have 2 channels. This would make db drag much more affordable to the beginning consumer. You could have the same power as everyone else and spend as little as $400. This does limit people who already have 4kw's, but they are not outlawed because they could use them in street 3-4. Because of the great features of the zapco amp, they would still be highly competitive against 4 mono-block type amps.
I agree! I am tired of Wayne trying to fit the rules around the 4kw instead of the better of the orangization though. I'd rather it stay the same.
-------------------- 2003 8th place World finals finish Loudest 1st Gen crx in the WORLD Loudest street A slotport Team DB Audio Loudest stock Car at usaci finals 159.8 Posts: 1405 | From: tulsa, ok | Registered: Jun 2001
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I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Wayne....it says two amps max in A and 4 in B.....not 4 amps in A.......that is how it reads........alowing 4 strapible monoblocks in A would be as bad as it is now....since there are amps like the Concept 2400a that are strapible monoblocks that do 2000wts rms....
quote:2-5 The standard classes for dB Drag Racing are as follows…
Street Division
· Street A – A maximum of 2 subwoofer amplifiers may be used. Total subwoofer amplification is limited to a maximum of 4 “non-bridged” output channels or 2 “bridged” output channels. (Please see the definitions section for more detail regarding bridging.)
o 1 to 2 woofers 12-inches in diameter or smaller
o OR a single woofer that is larger than 12 inches in diameter but no larger than 15-inches in diameter
· Street B – A maximum of 4 subwoofer amplifiers may be used. Total subwoofer amplification is limited to a maximum of 8 “non-bridged” output channels or 4 “bridged” output channels.
o 3 to 4 woofers 12-inches in diameter or smaller
o OR a pair of woofers that are larger than 12 inches in diameter but no larger than 15-inches in diameter
o OR a single 18 inch woofer
This from #9 looks good to me....
[ 01-25-2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Ghost man ]
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
- The 2002 rules let grow a large discussion about the amplifiers - letting it stay as it was wouldn't be very equal, but perhaps more equal than certain other changes will be (above all in the future).
- Draft 6 with its no limitations on amp numbers (what is the same as limiting on 4 amps in Street A and 8 in Street B) found no really friends.
- Draft 7 and the limitations on 2 amps, but 4 unbridged channels first was welcome by many competitors, but still some "opponents" of it don't grow silent - most because they don't wanna see such power numbers as they were the years before - and the money you'll have to spend on it.
IMO we'll have to come to an end of the discussion ...
I'm sure, everybody has made his statemant at least one time, and so the decision should be at Wayne now from here ... Let him decide and trust in his decision, I'm sure he'll chosse the right decision for the sports - now and the future!
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I don't think Street 1-2 needs two bridged monoblocks against one regular amp. There would be a huge advantage for competitors using 'strappable' amps. Every competitor out there with a single large non-strappable amp (Mmats, Earthquake, etc) would be forced to buy products from companies like Crossfire, Memphis, Concept, etc. to be competitive. I feel this slightly corners the market for these companies as not every company produces strappable amps.
Two amps, two bridged channels, or four non-bridged channels (but still TWO amps) sounds like an excellent idea!! What is not to like? Two D2's that could be had for $325 used? The 4KW will still be allowed for those who spent the cash, but competitors who wish to be very competitive would not be forced into payng thousands of dollars for monster amps.
posted
Wayne I really don't see why you are putting all the effort into saving these amp for competition. You already made it clear for extreme that those guys are going to have to almost completly redo their interiors to be legal, which is going to cost alot of time and money. Its almost as if you are saying the street class is more important than the extreme guys. I just don't understand, if you could please elaborate on this it would be great. thanks
-------------------- ---JASON SMITH--- Man its been a long time Posts: 906 | From: Ozark, AL | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I spoke with Wayne on the phone for several minutes. We came to an agreement that either the current 9th revision for the street class, or limiting it to 2 channels would be good for dBDrag as a competitor. There is something more to think about than competitors here:
By allowing 4 channels, there is minimum impact to currently existing systems, and those that wish to upgrade their systems, may do so. When you upgrade your system, that is good for the retailer, and the manufacturer. Example he stated to me:
Competitor Timmy: Timmy has 2 nice 12 inch woofers and a single bd1500 amp. He has spent under $1000 total on his system, as was fairly competitive on the local level, but could not compete with the 4KW on a national level. If the rules stayed the same, he would be forced to sell his amp and then purchase a larger amp like the D3, 4KW, etc. to be competitive on the national level. With the current revision of the rules, he could simply go back to the retailer where he bought his original amp (or another retailer) and purchase a second bd1500. This spurs sales at the retailer and for the manufacturer. Timmy can now be fairly competitive on the national level with his power and he has equipment that almost any serious competitor can afford and purchase at numerous retailers (even Best Buy).
Those existing competitors in Street 1-2 (now Street A) can also upgrade along the same path assuming that they have an amp OTHER than the 4KW. They can also double their power and be more competitive nationally again. Those with the 4KW already had an advantage and their competition has likely just doubled their power to compete with them. So it is a more level playing field for all involved. You can spend less than $1500 on amps and still national level power. This is not all that is required to do well nationally, as having good subs and a good design for you vehicle is required as well, but it is more financially available to many.
If we go with the option of limiting it to 2 channels, then Timmy could still upgrade, but many competitors could not who have internally bridged amplifiers (Mojo, VR2000d, D2, etc.) and they might be forced to purchase a larger 3000-4000 watt expensive amplifier to be competitive. Also everyone who has a 4 channel amp (not just the 4KW, but the local level who has a 4 channel on their subs) cannot compete in this division and is bumped into SSNW. This even applied to a 200 watt Alpine, Kenwood, etc. amp. Those who do have those amps would be forced to sell them and purchase different amplifiers for competition. This is not good for the retailer, as many retailers stock several good 4 channel amps for their wiring flexibility and upgradibility. Many people who just want to add subs to their system get a 4 channel amp to run them. They can either bridged the rear to the subs, or all of it to the subs. Then in the future, they could purchase a larger amp for subwoofer use only and use the 4 channel amp on the high pass speakers. This is good for the retailer as by stocking a 4 channel amp, they can provide many different installation alternatives to the consumer.
Also, dBDrag is looking to grow and push and develop newer technology. If we limit it to 2 channels, your average Joe with 2 bd1500s or 2 1000ds will be competitive nationally with power. This is WORLD FINALS and it shouldn't be easy to achieve this goal, and by no means should it be cheap. A lot of the people in this thread are looking at how they can benefit themselves by spending less money, or getting amps they don't like outlawed. We must look at this from the whole, competitor, retailer, and manufacturer, cause if we lose any of those 3, the dBDRA is gone.
With the new rules it is likely that we will see a street A car do a 160 and a Street B vehicle do over a 163. Is this not impressive with and worthy of a world finals level? Or would you rather the winning scores from finals be in the 154-155 range that many competitors could achieve without spending "too much" money or working "too hard" on their vehicle?
I personally do not care which option is chosen as I will have to upgrade my system in any event. I do feel that both options are more fair for the competitor than the 2002 rules and offer the competitor more options to get loud, the retailers more options to sell product, and the manufacturers more options to make and promote their products. With that said, this is probably the last long post from me on this subject. Thank you for reading all of them and let's get working on our systems for the summer.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
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