posted
Okay, so let me get this straight. I am now allowed two monoblock amps in street 1-2(A). So that means i am allowed to run two viper d2500.1? And now 15's are aloowed in Street? This is going to be very interesting this year. Thanks Wayne!
posted
i really do not agree with this whole amp thing why not keep what isn't broken i mean ya the 4kw was made for this but i mean like me that doesn't have alot of money but i do have everything that i need to be competitive. but now i have to fine the money to go find another bd. so now the rules are only alowing the people that have the money that can buy two amps
posted
Ok wayne i think it should stay the way u have it. Cause if u push the 4kw to street b. Then i just wasted $1800 for a used one. If price is the object. Then stay in mini street (aka newbie class)...if u want to play with the big dogs u have to have the $$$$$ to do so. The reason i bought the 4kw is so i could compete in a class this year and do well. But if they push it to street b. I am done with db drag. Cause i was going to give it another run this year. Cause 2 years back i got tired of the bs. But this year i decieded if u cant bet them join them. And then this happens.
quote:Originally posted by cavRF: i really do not agree with this whole amp thing why not keep what isn't broken i mean ya the 4kw was made for this but i mean like me that doesn't have alot of money but i do have everything that i need to be competitive. but now i have to fine the money to go find another bd. so now the rules are only alowing the people that have the money that can buy two amps
AHHH.......the typical "Street" install........no, they (dbDra) are more concerned about the people that already compete, and that have already bought the amps. Not the newbies, the future of dBdrag
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
that is the way i see it too i wasn't a member last year but i competed around my area and i did well i. now i was going to make a run this year because i had all i could get. but i don't have the money like that and i would be a new guy this year but i don't know if i have to buy all this other stuff now. this sport is growing but for the people that have money
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: But if they push it to street b. I am done with db drag. Cause i was going to give it another run this year.
Oh look, another person wanting to leave dBdrag........I know that you can't make everyone happy, but I really think that this MINI BS is just that BS, you needed to leave it the way it was.
miniddbeast: you say "if u want to play with the big dogs u have to have the $$$$$ to do so" well then why not go to street b??
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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1 2-channel against 1 Monoblock (even if it's a true mono )
or
1 4-channel against 2 2-channel against 2 monoblocks.
===>>> 7th Draft is AT LEAST the second best solution, perhaps even the best one!
Üüüüühh!! Matze
But then you run into the fact that if a newbiw comes out to compete in street, and he is running a 4 channel amp for subs, and mids/highs
Why?
this will nly happen whit the first possibility I wrote, but for this "small powered 4-channel-amps" can be found a exception rule much easier ...
So I wrote the 7th draw is AT LEAST the second best. In my opinion, taking the 7th draw is the best compromise for everyone - its much more equal than nearly most other of the preceded proposals here in the forum!
-------------------- 2002 2nd Place German Champion Street 1-2 2002 3rd Place Champion certified score in the world in Street 1-2 2003 2nd Place German Champion Street A (152.1 dB) 2004 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2004 German Champion Street A 2004 EXT 3000 + 2 x Atomic AP10 D1 = 151,2 dB 2005 2nd Place ESB Champion Street A 2005 German Champion Street A Official german cheesecake provider of Alma Gates Posts: 657 | From: Griesheim, Germany | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Matze: The DEI 2400 and the Viper 2500 are not internally bridged, they CAN be strapped.
The 2400/2500 cannot be strapped according to DEI. Here is a direct quote from the website:
quote: the d600.1 and d1200.1 can be strapped together to double their individual power, and the d2500.1 has enough power to run most major appliances, coming in at a true 2.5KW. And if that’s not enough, you can double, triple, and quadruple that power by adding more d2500.1 using our built-in synced gain feature.
Master/slave RCA jack functions support two amps bridged to one load (d600.1, d1100.1), or multiple amps driving separate loads with synced gain (all models except d300.1)
It states that the 600.1 and 1200.1 can be strapped, but nothing about the 2500.1 (the 2500.1 is basically a two channel 1200.1). Also the built-in synced gain feature is not strapping the amps together, it is merely matching all of the gains.
The reason that I had behind the true monoblock strappable amps was that they are generally less powerful than a large internally bridged monoblock.
Examples: RF bd1500 DEI 1100d/1200.1 Kicker kx1200.1 MTX 81000D Crossfire 1000d Memphis 1000d Visonik VX900d MA Audio 5082(?)
Most of those amps struggle to do roughly 1500 watts at 12V. The DD9501 has yet to be proven capable of big power at 12 V. I have seen outrageous power numbers stated at 18V+, but I'll bet it does less than 2000 watts at 12V.
I know of not true monoblock out there capable of doing 2000 watts at 12V. The DD9501 has yet to reach most consumers, so power outputs from it are all speculation currently.
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Ok idbl......see how cheap other things are to comp. in. .....i guess we need to make it so the sparko matic guy can win street.
I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just making points
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Ok idbl......see how cheap other things are to comp. in. .....i guess we need to make it so the sparko matic guy can win street.
No we need to make it so that regular people can win...not just who has the most money/hookup.
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I don't believe we should limit the number of channels in Street A to 2 as many normal, off-the-shelf amps are 4-channel amps.
Please keep brainstorming.
I still think an MSRP cap would be best for Street (a) Think about it, if a manufacturer gives an MSRP for an amp, they can't charge more for it, therefore, the companies will not "mark it down" for competitors.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Matze: The DEI 2400 and the Viper 2500 are not internally bridged, they CAN be strapped.
The 2400/2500 cannot be strapped according to DEI. Here is a direct quote from the website:
quote: the d600.1 and d1200.1 can be strapped together to double their individual power, and the d2500.1 has enough power to run most major appliances, coming in at a true 2.5KW. And if that’s not enough, you can double, triple, and quadruple that power by adding more d2500.1 using our built-in synced gain feature.
Master/slave RCA jack functions support two amps bridged to one load (d600.1, d1100.1), or multiple amps driving separate loads with synced gain (all models except d300.1)
It states that the 600.1 and 1200.1 can be strapped, but nothing about the 2500.1 (the 2500.1 is basically a two channel 1200.1). Also the built-in synced gain feature is not strapping the amps together, it is merely matching all of the gains.
The reason that I had behind the true monoblock strappable amps was that they are generally less powerful than a large internally bridged monoblock.
Examples: RF bd1500 DEI 1100d/1200.1 Kicker kx1200.1 MTX 81000D Crossfire 1000d Memphis 1000d Visonik VX900d MA Audio 5082(?)
Most of those amps struggle to do roughly 1500 watts at 12V. The DD9501 has yet to be proven capable of big power at 12 V. I have seen outrageous power numbers stated at 18V+, but I'll bet it does less than 2000 watts at 12V.
I know of not true monoblock out there capable of doing 2000 watts at 12V. The DD9501 has yet to reach most consumers, so power outputs from it are all speculation currently.
How come my viper 2500 has an RCA input and output and slave/master switch? Are these useless
posted
Ok here it is plain and simple. THE ONE WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS....almost all the time in life. So it dont matter what the rules are guys and girls. Cause if it ant the 4kw i will promise the jbl crown will be the top amp at finals this year so it dont matter.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I don't believe we should limit the number of channels in Street A to 2 as many normal, off-the-shelf amps are 4-channel amps.
Please keep brainstorming.
I still think an MSRP cap would be best for Street (a) Think about it, if a manufacturer gives an MSRP for an amp, they can't charge more for it, therefore, the companies will not "mark it down" for competitors.
I agree with a MSRP limit...but I like the blacklist idea as well....
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Ok here it is plain and simple. THE ONE WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS....almost all the time in life. So it dont matter what the rules are guys and girls.
But doesn't that take away from the "Street" Image? I understand with SS and extreme though...
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: Ok here it is plain and simple. THE ONE WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS....almost all the time in life. So it dont matter what the rules are guys and girls. Cause if it ant the 4kw i will promise the jbl crown will be the top amp at finals this year so it dont matter.
You are 100% correct, that is why there needs to be an MSRP cap on it
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
all i know is 2 D2's on 1 12 volt battery is gonna make a lotta smoke, or 1 big fire. screws me. "real" street people can't afford to repair amps all the time. *waitin for someone to say i need to switch brands then*
Only thing that I'd like to see different is sound dampening. Make it to 4mm so that everyone in here wouldn't have to rip of their stuff... 4mm Bitum is most common way in here. There are only 2mm and 4mm available in here...
-------------------- 2004 European Champion SS 3-4 165,6dB 2003 European Champion SSNW 160,9dB's 2002 European Champion S1-2. 156,2dB's Posts: 270 | From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by miniddbeast: But if they push it to street b. I am done with db drag. Cause i was going to give it another run this year.
Oh look, another person wanting to leave dBdrag........I know that you can't make everyone happy, but I really think that this MINI BS is just that BS, you needed to leave it the way it was.
miniddbeast: you say "if u want to play with the big dogs u have to have the $$$$$ to do so" well then why not go to street b??
You are 100% wrong. The introduction of the Mini Street Division is the best thing the dBDRA has come up with yet. 2/3 of my competitors are Mini Street. These kids don't want to go to finals, all they want to do is get their car metered and beat their buddy locally.
For those that want to pursue dB Drag, they know to be nationally competitive they must spend some money. This is not a shock to them. They can see what it takes by seeing the national guys run through the lanes and seein their score.
Im sorry if you guys don't have Mini Street Division where your located. Im sure if you wanted, they could make a class up for you.
From what I gather, you want to be nationally competitive w/o spending the money. You've mentioned putting a MSRP on the class. Who determines this? Even if they did this, and the MSRP is more than you want to pay, then it solved nothing. To me you want to run in the NHRA with your daily driver and complain cause your not competitive. Rules and classes can't match everyones setups. You just need to find a format and class that bests suits your budget. dB Drag Racing isn't for everyone.
dB Drag is a national sport/hobby. If you want to play, you got to pay. We all know this. You don't here Extreme competitors complaining about how much money they have to spend to be competitive? Ever heard Team BS, Alma Gates or Team Pure sound complain? No, they expect the cost involved in their hobby. They know they must spend 10's of thousands of dollars to be competitive.
Here in the street class, you have competitors complaining about spending an extra $1000. The more I read the hundreds of posts regarding Street class makes me want to see it disappear. As Wayne would say, most of these posts is a waste of bandwidth.
But then someone will say, "Where is the newbies supposed to go?" Simple, Mini Street. I always give my competitors the option, 'Do you want to compete nationally or locally?'
Others have said that the street division is supposed to be for the new guy. That is a great idea, if it could be inforced. You can blame those that have circumvented the rules for the move up rule to be taken away.
A person has to make up their mind what level of competition they want to compete in.
posted
dB Steve, your right, the MSRP is NOT what people want to pay, and usually never do, but if you go off the MSRP, for one, that means Zapco has to get some litterature out on the 4KW, and what would the MSRP be? get the point? You cap off Street with MSRP that would eliminate all of these "big amps" that cost thousands of dollars, and put out 4000+ watts
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
UPDATE: I spoke with Earthquake and the D4 is essentially THREE D2s on one circuit board, however it only has 2 speaker outputs and therefore is an internally bridged monoblock. The D6/D8 are currently not slated for production however new larger than the D4 amps are to be produced. Under the current 7th draft, you could use 2 of these D4s in Street A, and 4 of them in Street B.
quote: Posted by Wayne I don't believe we should limit the number of channels in Street A to 2 as many normal, off-the-shelf amps are 4-channel amps.
Please keep brainstorming.
Here would be a question, with the exception of the 4KW, how many competitors use a 4 channel amp to power their subwoofers? How many just use 2 channels of the 4 channel to their subs? How many of these competitors would be in the Street 1-2 class and not in ministreet? The most powerful 4 channel amp available now that I know of (other than the 4KW) is the PPI PCX-4125 that will do 1000 total watts when bridged together (500/side). I think Earthquake made one many years ago that was something like 300X4 that would do 1200 watts per side, but it was A/B and very inefficient.
I realize that you are trying to allow the most options to a new competitor to the sport, and not force him to compete in superstreet 1-2 with his 75watts X 4 amplifier, but allowing him to compete in street opens up a lot of options for tons of total power to the other competitors. I really doubt that a serious national level competitor would use a 4 channel amp (other than the 4KW) in Street anyway.
But if we have to allow 4 channel amps in Street A, and the 4KW, then we might as well allow 2 of the larger 2000-3000 watt amps to compete against it, that would only be fair. Really I guess that is what we are after, a fair and level playing field. The 4KW costs a lot and the 2000-3000 watt amps also cost a lot, so we have not increased the overall cost to be nationally competitive by much, but we have given the competitors more options to achieve that.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by Dropcivix: How come my viper 2500 has an RCA input and output and slave/master switch? Are these useless
Those are for the master gain sync that they talk about. You can put 4 amps together and run them slave/master and only have one gain control. You will have to run all 4 amps on 4 separate loads though.
Steve, is that the same literature that states that it is 2 9.0s in one case like at CES?
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