quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
since none of those amps are out as of yet you could make that amp list and start with those.....with the rules you currently have in place...
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
Are these amps bridgeable? In other words, can you use two of them to drive a common load?
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Many retailers use SPL meters (such as Audiocontrol) that do not have the ability to judge an Enduro format. Good suggestion but difficult to implement.
I thought that a termpro meter had to be used.................
Oh yeah, and like I and MANY others have said before, why fix what isn't broken?
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
Are these amps bridgeable? In other words, can you use two of them to drive a common load?
if the JBL/Crown isn't bridgeable 2 of them would still only be 2 chanals
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
since none of those amps are out as of yet you could make that amp list and start with those.....with the rules you currently have in place...
Yes, we could do that. But, do you think a competitor could extract 14,000 watts from 2 JBL amps with the current power electrical system restrictions we already have in place?
And, if the power could be realized, do you think it could actually be utilized with the current woofer count / voice coil limitations that exist in the Street Division?
I mean, does it really matter if someone has 1,000,000 watts of power if they can only apply it to two each DVC woofers? I believe there is a definite limit to the amount of power that can be produced (due to electrical system limitations) and can be used (due to woofer / vc limitations.)
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
Are these amps bridgeable? In other words, can you use two of them to drive a common load?
I do not know...what i listed is the final number of output chanels and power....not too sure on the D8 but all of these amps are to your current rules what the Zapco was to the old rules....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Many retailers use SPL meters (such as Audiocontrol) that do not have the ability to judge an Enduro format. Good suggestion but difficult to implement.
I thought that a termpro meter had to be used.................
Oh yeah, and like I and MANY others have said before, why fix what isn't broken?
Any meter may be used at local events. Termlab must be used at all multipoint events.
I share your frustration. However there are legitimate problems that we need to address. Amplification in the Street Division is the most notable. I would really like to hear your argument against the current proposal. (I value your opinion, that is why I sent you the email asking for your comments.)
Thanks in advance.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
since none of those amps are out as of yet you could make that amp list and start with those.....with the rules you currently have in place...
Yes, we could do that. But, do you think a competitor could extract 14,000 watts from 2 JBL amps with the current power electrical system restrictions we already have in place?
And, if the power could be realized, do you think it could actually be utilized with the current woofer count / voice coil limitations that exist in the Street Division?
I mean, does it really matter if someone has 1,000,000 watts of power if they can only apply it to two each DVC woofers? I believe there is a definite limit to the amount of power that can be produced (due to electrical system limitations) and can be used (due to woofer / vc limitations.)
This is true...but as technowlagy (spell) getts more advanced bigger and better batts will be produced...as well as more powerfull and more efficant amps.....if a list is started...we can nip this before it getts out of hand....
-------------------- Team TAZM Team Gates Exotic Dreamz Car Club Team Cartunes
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I am still not a fan of the 4 channels of amplification in Street A as that means that several competitors will be using well over 4000 watts of power rather easily. This is good to provide competition to an amplifier like the 4KW or JBL/Crown however I don't know if that is the direction that the street class needs to go.
I understand your wanting to minimize the impact of those competitors who have already purchased the 4KW to use for competition. Maybe if we allowed that amp to compete in Street B only and not in Street A, it might be more fair. Those competitors who already have the amp could either compete in Street B or sell it to someone in Street B. The most that they would have to do to their vehicle would be to either switch to 2 15s or purchase 2 more 12s for Street B. After having the expense of the 4KW, this cost is minimal. If you look at numbers on the whole, there way more people not using a 4KW to compete with than there who are. The current way you are asking the majority of the competitors to purcahse another amp to be competitive while those select few who have a 4KW (and had the money to afford one) are able to make minimal changes for the next season.
I do not have a problem allowing the 4KW to remain in Street A, however, by tailoring the rules to that, you still have created an issue.
A competitor in Street A could use TWO of any of those amplifiers to compete with. Cost to purchase most of those (even at a discount) is well over $700 (closer to $2000 for the JBL) a piece. Also running any pair of those amps is roughly more than 5000 watts of system power in the Street A class. I realize that one battery will only do so much, but it will power a 4KW just fine and that is roughly the same power levels. Here is the 2 options I currently see.
Option 1: What is currently proposed, allowing the 4KW and 2 large mono amps battling it out in a "let's see who's battery dies first" contest in Street A (5000 watts +), and in Street B, we see how many amps can fit in a CRX with over 10,000 watts of power.
Option 2: We cut the currently proposed limits in half, relegating all of those people using 4KWs to either sell them to someone in Street B, or move to Street B to compete. Street A can have 1 of the above amps or 2 bridgable monoblocks and power outputs will be generally under 4000 watts (average 2300-3000) with the exception of the JBL/Crown amp, which has not proven itself yet. Street B will have one 4KW, and 2 amps above, or 4 monoblocks with total power in the 5000-6000 watt range.
There is an additional option 3 that is between what is currently written and what previously existed:
Option 3: Street A is limited to one subwoofer amplifier of between 2 and 4 channels of output power (internally bridged monoblocks like those above would count as 2 channels). Two subwoofer amplifiers may be used provided that they are true mono, externally bridgeable amplifiers that can be bridged into a single load. Street B would simply be double that.
The only change in option 3 over what the current rules state (2002) is the addition of allowing 2 bridged true monoblock amplifiers in A, and 4 in B.
It personally does not matter to me which way the rules go as I still have to purchase a larger or additional amplifier(s) to be competitive on a national level (my 1000 watt true mono amp won't cut it). Those who attended finals in 2002 will not have to change their system whatsoever, and now more competitors can purchase 2 bridgeable monoblocks other brands like Rockford, MTX, Kicker and still be competitive with those running the Zapco (4KW) and Earthquake (D3) amps that got 7 of the top 8 spots in Street 1-2 at World Finals this year.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: All things concidered....this 7th draft is the best of them all.....there are a few amps still that can take advantage of the new rules...
The JBL/crown - 7000wts rms x1 @ 14v The EQ D6 - 6000wts rms x1 The EQ D8 - 4000wts rms x2
since none of those amps are out as of yet you could make that amp list and start with those.....with the rules you currently have in place...
Yes, we could do that. But, do you think a competitor could extract 14,000 watts from 2 JBL amps with the current power electrical system restrictions we already have in place?
And, if the power could be realized, do you think it could actually be utilized with the current woofer count / voice coil limitations that exist in the Street Division?
I mean, does it really matter if someone has 1,000,000 watts of power if they can only apply it to two each DVC woofers? I believe there is a definite limit to the amount of power that can be produced (due to electrical system limitations) and can be used (due to woofer / vc limitations.)
This is true...but as technowlagy (spell) getts more advanced bigger and better batts will be produced...as well as more powerfull and more efficant amps.....if a list is started...we can nip this before it getts out of hand....
Agreed fully.
-------------------- Team Smoke Street A NSPL Regular Cab Record Holder (147.6 dB) MECA M3 soon to come
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Many retailers use SPL meters (such as Audiocontrol) that do not have the ability to judge an Enduro format. Good suggestion but difficult to implement.
I thought that a termpro meter had to be used.................
Oh yeah, and like I and MANY others have said before, why fix what isn't broken?
Any meter may be used at local events. Termlab must be used at all multipoint events.
I share your frustration. However there are legitimate problems that we need to address. Amplification in the Street Division is the most notable. I would really like to hear your argument against the current proposal. (I value your opinion, that is why I sent you the email asking for your comments.)
Thanks in advance.
I think that the rules need to be geared more towards "Street" setups, I mean look, I know that Zac runs his 4KW all the time, as a street setup, but really, who goes out and spends that kind of $$ for a "street" amp, hell the 4KW isn't even listed as a product on Zapco's website, and I have yet to find litterature on it anywhere......why? cause it is 2 9.0's, hell I could even say who goes out and buys a MOJO, the D2, D6, D8 for "street", let alone the JBL/CROWN.............RF BD1000's? yes, MAYBE even a 1500, I don't so much the 1500 for 2 12's or 1 15, but maybe, you are talking about amps that are putting out well over 2000 Watts here, what average person (AKA "Street") goes into a store and says "I want something to be loud with 2 12's or one 15, and I want a 4KW to push them" No one, I think maybe a price cap would work, I mean think about it, again the average person is not going to go into a store and pay $2-4000 for an amp for their "Street" vehicle, hell most average people that put stereo's in thier cars for more bass, $2-4000 is more than the car is worth. I honestly think that maybe a price cap for street amps would be best, and stick with the 1 amp rule.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6070 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I am not familiar with that product. When referring to specific products in this discussion, please include as much information regarding the product as possible. For example, number of channels, rms power, internally bridged, etc.
I believe that allowing a maximum of 2 amps in Street A addresses the "monster amp" issue.
Please explain why you agree or disagree with this statement.
It does for the most part, indeed. However it does limit competitors choices in amps sometimes. I think there should be a limit of two channels in A and four channels in B. This will keep costs down and the sport more retailer friendly. As of the immediate moment this will only drive more competitors out of our stores onto the internet searching for the cheapest deal.
-------------------- Quietest member of Broken Silence Competition Club
Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Shedluv: I am still not a fan of the 4 channels of amplification in Street A as that means that several competitors will be using well over 4000 watts of power rather easily. This is good to provide competition to an amplifier like the 4KW or JBL/Crown however I don't know if that is the direction that the street class needs to go.
I understand your wanting to minimize the impact of those competitors who have already purchased the 4KW to use for competition. Maybe if we allowed that amp to compete in Street B only and not in Street A, it might be more fair. Those competitors who already have the amp could either compete in Street B or sell it to someone in Street B. The most that they would have to do to their vehicle would be to either switch to 2 15s or purchase 2 more 12s for Street B. After having the expense of the 4KW, this cost is minimal. If you look at numbers on the whole, there way more people not using a 4KW to compete with than there who are. The current way you are asking the majority of the competitors to purcahse another amp to be competitive while those select few who have a 4KW (and had the money to afford one) are able to make minimal changes for the next season.
I do not have a problem allowing the 4KW to remain in Street A, however, by tailoring the rules to that, you still have created an issue.
A competitor in Street A could use TWO of any of those amplifiers to compete with. Cost to purchase most of those (even at a discount) is well over $700 (closer to $2000 for the JBL) a piece. Also running any pair o
