quote:Originally posted by The WooferWagon: Also if you get a permit for a show there isnt nuthing they can do is there
The permit is for permission to have a gathering of people in one place. Not to disturb the "peace". If the permit was not obtained in certain places they can make the crowd disband and break up the event for no reason other than having too many people standing around. The police do this to avoid normal problems associated with crowds gathering. (fights and litter)
The arguing with the cop about what someone else gets away with is not a good route for the event or the image of the sport either.
NeillBarber
-------------------- Audio Extremes Thomasville Ga. 229-227-5707 KICKER, Eclipse, Hifonics, and did I say KICKER
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: "Old school?"
Originally appeared in the May 1988 issue of Installation News magazine.
"Obviously, Harris was going to need the largest alternator setup he could find. Letsek Manufacturing in Fort Worth, Texas, was able to provide Harris with a 380 amp system. This consisted of dual 190 amp alternators and a dual Pulsar regulator. " and this one also
Author: Wayne Harris
Originally appeared in the July/August 1988 issue of Car Stereo Review magazine.
"There are several things you can do to increase the performance of your electrical system. First, you can replace the stock alternator with a high-output alternator, the single most important modification you can make ."
What's your point? Just quoting random things doesnt really mean anything, why not let us know why you are posting them?
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick:
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris:
quote:Originally posted by winslow: Good for you Rick...I'm planning on Bass Racing, and now, doing this with my SQ car. Regular SPL competition is out for me since I am building a new dash.
I think we need more cars that can do everything well- install, sound, and SPL.
This is one of our objectives... pulling SQ competitors and carshow vehicles into the lanes. Plus, we are looking for normal, everday, typical systems.
18v is legal in SQ and I for one am running it. Surprising enough to me is the fact that almost all of our 16v battery sales are for non-competition installs now. Granted 12v is still way more common, shops are doing 18v intalls on daily drivers. With a dB cap and no other power limits/battery limits, I don't understand a 12v battery rule. Using only a 12v battery rule with no other guidlines will just have people overcharging a bank of 12v batteries,this is much more dangerous then allowing 16v batteries and a 18v cap IMO. Basically I am looking at what would exclude conpetitors needlessly and what would make it more real world. Yes we get calls for alts way more then batteries but real world logic is run balanced charging system and as few batteries as possible.
Where are there shops doing 18v installs? They have lost their mind, for one they are violating the warranty of their customers equipment, and 2) it is much harder on the equipment. Absolutley stupid.
And rick, why do you even care about all these rules, I thought you were doing usaci next year?
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7763 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
After reading the rules, I am somewhat puzzled, but I understand the idea.
Several problems I see, first one being the 20-20khz SPL 30 second average. Scores in this are going to be pretty crazy low, because it will be an average of all frequencies from 10 feet away, then average them agian over 30 seconds. Even the loud cars would be good to do 115db I would think.
next problem is the RTA. Measuring 20- around 5 k from 10 ft away shouldnt be a problem, but it is hard in alot of cars to get 20k even inside the car, much less from 10 feet. i would think any car set up for this format would probably not sound very good because the highs are going to be waaaay jacked up to make 10k and above level out from 10 feet away.
Wayne, have you metered a car under these rules and how did it do? I would be interested to find out how car metered under these conditions. And please dont take this the wrong way, but it seems the format would be a good way to sell RTA packages for the TL meter. Posts: 1675 | From: Dickson,TN,USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Johnny the first post was meant to remind Wayne what he was doing in old school times. Lets face it Wayne invented old school. Back then he was doing what he was doing it with the car running and big alts.
As for the 18v systems, it is being done. As for it being harder on equipment IMO It is less hard on the equipment to produce the same amount of power on 18v then on 12v. As the voltage increases the amperage required decreases. This should produce less heat and be less apt to have problems. I beleive you are comparing 12v and 18v competition amps that are pushed to the limits not daily driven cars. This also requires less cable due to the added voltage = less amperage draw.
As for warrenty issues, some manufacturers even have the 18v power ratings on their website. I find it hard to beleive that doing something they advertise their amps will do voiding the warrenty.
I care about dB Drag, I have made a choice not to compete in street though. When the rules are clear but, enforced diferently then the way they are written,its time to compete elsewhere. The ruling was done because some don't like the way some rules apply to certain cars. This was done without changing the rules though. Yes I am doing USACI next year but, I would still like to see dB Drag attract new competiitors and not run off old ones. As I stated I am running 18v and that will keep me from running this format but I would still like to see it succeed. If it makes sense too, I may return to dB Drag but, for now I am trying another org. I have no hard feelings just a feeling of disappointment that the rules can be enforced in a manner other then the way they are written without any real clearifacation being made. The one place that anything "offical" was posted only supports that the rule does not apply to my car, owell. BTW I am running 18v in my daily driver (the vette) and plan to switch the Pace Car over also.
quote:Originally posted by Brad Eubank: please dont take this the wrong way, but it seems the format would be a good way to sell RTA packages for the TL meter.
I was thinking the same thing but isn't that the american way. Why wouldn't Wayne want a format that supports Wayne? It's his playground and we are only guests in it. If people don't want to buy a RTA meter so that they can play in the new format then nobody is forcing anybody to. I doubt Wayne is only trying to sell meters but even if he is more power to him.
quote:I also do not see this format helping with the opinion of car audio and it's competitors with the general population. We'll still look like a bunch of kids blasting their music with the doors open. Around here they won't care that there's a mic 10ft away. I'm just now getting them to understand that when we compete the doors are closed and it's an organized and civilized style of competition.
This is where I'm having a problem. This, to me, isn't going to do anything for dBDRA, except make us look like any boom car that cruises in the neighborhoods at midnight. I've gained a lot of respect from people when I tell them how much we competitors try to keep the noise levels outside the vehicle down as much as possible, while getting it extremely loud inside the vehicle. People actually like that.
Sorry, but this class is definitely not for me. If I was more into red light competitions, maybe, but I like to try keeping the peace as much as possible, while still being loud.
quote:Originally posted by Brad Eubank: please dont take this the wrong way, but it seems the format would be a good way to sell RTA packages for the TL meter.
I was thinking the same thing but isn't that the american way. Why wouldn't Wayne want a format that supports Wayne? It's his playground and we are only guests in it. If people don't want to buy a RTA meter so that they can play in the new format then nobody is forcing anybody to. I doubt Wayne is only trying to sell meters but even if he is more power to him.
posted
I cant make judgements without seeing it in action, but I can see difficulties in the outside RTA measurements, and cant understand why the voltage is limited???
-------------------- Scottie Johnson Sound Pressure Technologies
quote:Originally posted by SPLrookie: Maybe cool but not for me we are into spl and bass race
x2
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2008 ahhhh the retired life. 2007 U.S.Top Certified in street A,B,and C 2007 0-24 No-wall NSPL World Champion and Record Holder 157.9 2005 Db Drag Street A World Champion 2004 Db Drag U.S. record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 3942 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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I would keep the anal stuff to a minimum.... i/e proper fusing, battery installation proper, screws all turned the same way.... all the anal crap from other orgs...etc... etc....
I would award points for creativeness of overall install and overall vehicle. i/e difficulty of custom work done to install etc.... cleanliness of vehicle, ....make the cars get nicer....!
I would recommend that there is a LEGAL SPL taken on the dash like the other orgs.... not an outlaw. WITH MUSIC, NO TONES!
-------------------- T3 Audio Incorporated >World Class Subwoofer & Speaker Development< Johnathan Demuth/Chief Forklift Operator at T3 Audio/ Senior Email Checker/ Junior Phone answerer/ Warranty specialist/ Marketing relations coordinator/ Competition team manager/ R & D guru/ president of psuedo-manufacturers anonymous.
" No matter the obsticles before me, I truly know that I am, on some level, destined for greatness." ... J. Demuth
posted
Think I will stick to the simple fun Bass Race!
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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-------------------- T3 Audio Incorporated >World Class Subwoofer & Speaker Development< Johnathan Demuth/Chief Forklift Operator at T3 Audio/ Senior Email Checker/ Junior Phone answerer/ Warranty specialist/ Marketing relations coordinator/ Competition team manager/ R & D guru/ president of psuedo-manufacturers anonymous.
" No matter the obsticles before me, I truly know that I am, on some level, destined for greatness." ... J. Demuth
posted
This seems like a nice idea I hope it will work out as well as planned, but I believe that more could be accomplished as far as drawing competitors and Spectators by creating a 2nd bass race division with a few simple rules amp limit 1 per sub, batt voltage limit, mic centered on the dash, even breaking the brackets to 5db increments instead of 10.
-------------------- A real Street Beater not built just for the meter. Ground Pound!
quote:Originally posted by J.DEMUTH: Also, I would not cap the SPL.
i don't think anyone is gonna do a 136 10 ft away from the car...someone will prove me wrong i'm sure if so thats INSANE
also capping the SPL gives everyone a chance, not just someoen that does a 160 10 ft away from the car to get a higher score than the guy that does a 136 but has perfect RTA
-------------------- Posts: 6184 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
lol justin i did a usaci show in nh newengland drag way and i had the mic in the kick termlab meter and i sealed the van and didnt noticed the meter on the table 5 ft away after i burped it read a 129.6 on the leaderboard and the judge was like somethings wrong try it again ...(laughing at him as hard as i can i said i would if you put the meter in the van ...)it was so funny the crowd was like awww ..will this format be something like that but with out the mistakes ...nothing meant bad to wayne but i thought it was funny ...
-------------------- TEAM PINNACLE All time best 157.7 looking for 2.3 more with 2 amps. Posts: 2176 | From: GRN CVE SPRGS | Registered: Oct 2004
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The SPL will be measured 20-20khz, average, and a 30 second average, so the meter will measure SPL on every band of the 31 bands, and average those numbers every second, then average the 30 -1 second measurements. From 10 feet away i would think even the loudest cars will only be able to do 110-115 db. I would be interested in if Wayne has metered the Terminator and what numbers it does.
The problem I see is, guys are going to have to use horns and non car audio equipment to excel in this format, and they probably wont sound very good, and then we have the same problem we have now, our cars dont relate well to the average car stereo consumer
I think a much better measurement for RTA would be closer to the car,maybe clipped on the window with the drivers side window rolled down. That would also be good for SPL too. Kinda like if you were stickin your head in the car with the window rolled down.
Posts: 1675 | From: Dickson,TN,USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Hey - Im just a plain old competitor here - kinda stranded in the midwest - alone - abandoned - and as 867 sometimes thinks - swallowed up alive in the USACi world.
HOWEVER - I like the sounds of this new (revamped) thought. I would like to see it go someplace - although - why a 136db cap? its not a major thing - I mean - Im only 144 so its not a big stretch or anything - just curious where 136 came from.
I am interested in giving this a shot. DBSteve - will you be promoting this at the Topeka events this coming season? I would be willing to give it a try and see what happens with it.
Will this be a category for World Finals? If so, how will qualification for it be worked out (ie - points accrued)?
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