quote:Originally posted by winslow: Engine noise being alternator whine and the such...a loud exhaust wouldn't do crap for that. But it would make it really hard to get a baseline reading on the RTA. Ask the MECA SQ guys who were at dB Drag Finals and did RTA Shootout how hard it was to get a baseline reading that wasn't seriously screwed up. Well, you could ask the same question at the guys who were at IASCA Finals and had the IdBL lanes a few yards away.
Thanks for clearing that up but shouldn't a proper install not have alternator whine? If this format is going to use the RTA shouldn't it be used in real conditions?
quote:Originally posted by winslow: How are you going to have Extreme vehicles crossover? I don't know if you guys really understand the hows and whys of RTA testing with fullrange signals. This will not be the place to have Extreme SPL setups to crossover...worry about them Bass Racing first, and then try to add the rest of the music later.
I will have to take your word for that, as I said I have a limited understanding.
quote:Originally posted by winslow: 136 dB full range is like a jet rolling 10 feet by the meter. I really don't see too many cars doing 136 dB fullrange 10 feet outside of the car AND doing well on the RTA at the same time...much harder than what some might think it is. There aren't but a couple cars that can do over 135 in MECA drive by on bass...much less have it doing that fullrange.
My point was why test outside the car at all? dB Drag has always used 3-1 The passenger compartment and listening / measurement compartment shall be one and the same. (Intent: Measurements should be taken inside the passenger compartment.)
Testing outside the car just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It just sounds like testing for who can pi$$ off the neighbors the most. Yes I understand that in this format it would sound great but when was the last time someone said I want my system to sound great 10ft away. Here atleast here it would be illegal to do this with your system on the street.
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I knew of a car that had the horns pointing the "wrong" way in the back (had 2 sets) so it would project outside the car.
Yeah, Wayne had that global volume control on the EPX2...pretty much single handedly killed ironman SPL, SQ, and RTA measurements. Well, the PJs guys and others were cheating to do it...but the EPX was the first on the commercial level.
quote:Originally posted by Andy Jones: ^LOL. Didn't Wayne design that EPX2 to do something at higher volumes
Motorize those horns to rotate around for testing
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7810 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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rick thats the point man, its making demo vehicles have a place to play....the way Tommys truck sounds 10 ft away(or more) the way Pipos truck carries...and Wills its making DbDrag even MORE of a place for ground pounders, if you want Quiet sq you can go to the other guys =)
-------------------- Posts: 6184 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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Rick, yeah, a proper install should not have alternator whine, heterodyne, clicks, pops, etc. Some cars like Gary's Regal make it real hard to hear such noise when you rev the motor to test for alternator whine. It is bad now, but was worse when the car had straight pipes on it...the single stage Flowmasters aren't much better. I suspect that is where that rule in USACi stemmed from.
I'm not sure on the testing outside the car part either. The only thing that I can think of is that it will be HARD to do...it would be hard to do inside the car, but outside the car...unless you are coming with a touring prosound rig, I don't see anyone getting near cap.
But I do see where you are coming from.
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7810 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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If you don't have it, find a very good 31 band EQ, very flexible crossover, and some time delay. An Alpine 701---would work nicely. You can't do this class without a very big and flexible EQ. 800 watts on your mids and highs? I almost have that much just on my tweeters
We can catch up before SBN. I'm in the middle of a full rebuild right now and am planning on being at SBN.
At least early on, I think the SQ guys from other orgs would rock this class. We could max out RTA and Install, and probably be in the low 100's on SPL. The 30 points we lose on SPL would easily be made up in the RTA section because most DB Drag guys don't have EQ's and have never set an RTA curve before. By the end of the year it will be different, but early on the SQ guys will have an advantage.
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800 watts? That's it ? I've got about 1200 on my front stage...have a teamate with about 800 on a set of tweeters (bridged Zapco 4.0 on ScanSpeak Ring Revelators)...now, he would blow his all to crap if he played his stereo like me and you like to play ours.
I think you need more power That's only 50 watts per driver....could double that
quote:Originally posted by TeamSubGoPoof: I have 800+ watts on 8 sets of scosche 6.5 componets all in the std cab, i have 8 soundstream xxx 15s and 24kw....it carries
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7810 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TeamSubGoPoof: rick thats the point man, its making demo vehicles have a place to play....the way Tommys truck sounds 10 ft away(or more) the way Pipos truck carries...and Wills its making DbDrag even MORE of a place for ground pounders, if you want Quiet sq you can go to the other guys =)
I'm not at all suggesting "Quiet sq", I am just saying test it at the headrest. Incase you were confused by my earlier comment about sq and spl in the other org, I am planning on doing this with one car and the same install.
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Good for you Rick...I'm planning on Bass Racing, and now, doing this with my SQ car. Regular SPL competition is out for me since I am building a new dash.
I think we need more cars that can do everything well- install, sound, and SPL.
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7810 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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This format is not intended to replace dB Drag Racing or Bass Race. In fact, many cars that are optimized for these formats may find it difficult to compete in Psychlone. Psychlone is aimed at a completely different segment of contestant. (Actually, this format describes what I was trying to achieve when I built my first showcars.)
Loud, full-range systems with good installations. Non-specialty auto sound components. Affordibility. Nosebleeds and music that will make you cry. Old School SPL... just the way I like it.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by winslow: Good for you Rick...I'm planning on Bass Racing, and now, doing this with my SQ car. Regular SPL competition is out for me since I am building a new dash.
I think we need more cars that can do everything well- install, sound, and SPL.
This is one of our objectives... pulling SQ competitors and carshow vehicles into the lanes. Plus, we are looking for normal, everday, typical systems.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
If you don't have it, find a very good 31 band EQ, very flexible crossover, and some time delay. An Alpine 701---would work nicely. You can't do this class without a very big and flexible EQ. 800 watts on your mids and highs? I almost have that much just on my tweeters
We can catch up before SBN. I'm in the middle of a full rebuild right now and am planning on being at SBN.
At least early on, I think the SQ guys from other orgs would rock this class. We could max out RTA and Install, and probably be in the low 100's on SPL. The 30 points we lose on SPL would easily be made up in the RTA section because most DB Drag guys don't have EQ's and have never set an RTA curve before. By the end of the year it will be different, but early on the SQ guys will have an advantage.
haha more stuff to buy .....and try to find a place to put them where they look nice.
Wayne the fuse on the battery is that just the main battery under the hood? or do i need to have a fuse before every one of my amps (11)
-------------------- Posts: 6184 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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If that rock concert sound emulation is what the objective is, why not have both doors open and take reading from 10 ft behind the car center "stage"
Posts: 208 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
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Originally appeared in the May 1988 issue of Installation News magazine.
"Obviously, Harris was going to need the largest alternator setup he could find. Letsek Manufacturing in Fort Worth, Texas, was able to provide Harris with a 380 amp system. This consisted of dual 190 amp alternators and a dual Pulsar regulator. " and this one also
Author: Wayne Harris
Originally appeared in the July/August 1988 issue of Car Stereo Review magazine.
"There are several things you can do to increase the performance of your electrical system. First, you can replace the stock alternator with a high-output alternator, the single most important modification you can make ."
quote:Originally posted by winslow: Good for you Rick...I'm planning on Bass Racing, and now, doing this with my SQ car. Regular SPL competition is out for me since I am building a new dash.
I think we need more cars that can do everything well- install, sound, and SPL.
This is one of our objectives... pulling SQ competitors and carshow vehicles into the lanes. Plus, we are looking for normal, everday, typical systems.
18v is legal in SQ and I for one am running it. Surprising enough to me is the fact that almost all of our 16v battery sales are for non-competition installs now. Granted 12v is still way more common, shops are doing 18v intalls on daily drivers. With a dB cap and no other power limits/battery limits, I don't understand a 12v battery rule. Using only a 12v battery rule with no other guidlines will just have people overcharging a bank of 12v batteries,this is much more dangerous then allowing 16v batteries and a 18v cap IMO. Basically I am looking at what would exclude conpetitors needlessly and what would make it more real world. Yes we get calls for alts way more then batteries but real world logic is run balanced charging system and as few batteries as possible.
quote:Originally posted by winslow: Good for you Rick...I'm planning on Bass Racing, and now, doing this with my SQ car. Regular SPL competition is out for me since I am building a new dash.
I think we need more cars that can do everything well- install, sound, and SPL.
Thanks, Good to hear someone else agrees but I think we need to be very careful to not make the rules to complicated and ellinate to many installs. I beleive bassrace is popular mainly becuase of the simplicity of rules.
Loud, full-range systems with good installations. Non-specialty auto sound components. Affordibility. Nosebleeds and music that will make you cry. Old School SPL... just the way I like it.
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I like a lot of the rules. It reminds me a lot of the original rules for dB Drag.
The only thing I can comment on is in regards to the aftermarket head unit. I think that the points for this should also include a true aftermarket conversion of a factory head unit. If someone installs a Cleansweep or a RF 3sixty then they should get the points provided they have proof of install.
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3488 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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Wayne, One of the problems I see is the measurments outside the vehicle. If you look at a show like Neill's, he could not hold this type of division at his store. A lot of locations are limited to nothing being played outside the lanes as it is. They are just sliding by right now by keeping the doors closed on the vehicles.
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