i have more to say regarding the commerically available rule and its validity (or lack there of) but im working it out in my head so i dont sound like a moron when i finally do post it, lol.

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Originally posted by ianrulz123:
maybe im way off base here, but i think its 10% equipment, and 90% install.

i have more to say regarding the commerically available rule and its validity (or lack there of) but im working it out in my head so i dont sound like a moron when i finally do post it, lol.

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It may be true that from one product to the next the differences may be small, sometimes just a couple tenths of a db from a production unit to a prototype of another company. But at the same time, you have to realize that 'couple tenths' equates to several places at finals.

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Originally posted by scoupen:
the published lists that come out in the magazines are usually outdated before they hit the racks. if it is going to be one person or five people determining the validity of the equipment, there still needs to be a clear set of guidelines, so that the average person can look at something and say," that won't/will be allowed".

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Originally posted by Conclusive:

In the 4/00 CA&E buyers guide Zapco rated the 6.0 at 900x1 channel. Six months later, two were used to capture the 1-2 title. Sometimes even the magazines do not work. There is a need for clear concise rules.

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But it could be possible to have official list on TP. All it needs is some extra typing and some net space. Maybe that could also serve as offisial MSRP (if needed). And it could be easyly updated every month for new models.

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Originally posted by jaggy:
I think the dBRA should ask companies to send a list of their products just few months before the finals.

if it aint on the list, you aint competiting.

jaggy

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a list of available products...not products that are in development.

Set a minimum numbers of competitors that must use the equipment by a certain date at a 3x event.

EX: at least 20 different competitors must use the equipment at a 3x event prior to Aug 15th.

Make the competitor use the equipment during a legal run and then get a photo or other proof of using the equipment. A picture with the head judge would be a great example.

It'll take a little time but would be worth it.

Also, I would say that most equipment would not need proof. For example, we all know that BD1000's are commercially available. That is common sense. The 4kw and signature were questionable. Any questionable product requires proof. The determination would be by the dbdra. A simple list could be created and made available on line.

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Originally posted by ea1:
First off, I want to say that DB Drag will not be sucessful if its main concern is the 175 competitors that go to finals.

Everyone is ALWAYS saying we need more prize money, and we need more national sponsors... Well guess what, companies could give a flying flip about reaching finals atendees. I would go so far as to say that most manufacturers have little interest in reaching the people that post on this board. Manufacturers want to reach the people that come into my shop, and thousands of other shops, everyday and pay... you guesses it... RETAIL.

Why would ANYONE want to reach any finals bound competitors? We want it all for free, or very close to it.. but then we want the manufacturers to fork out 100s of thousands of dollars, to keep up happy while running someone elses equipment? AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

I dont see how, in the same breath, some competitors want Brand X to sponsor their sport, AND say they would never run that same equipment.

All of this plays a crucial role in the commercially available equipment debate. If we allow custom, one-off equipment at finals, thats what everyone will use to be competitive. If thats ALL that is being used, the only people that would be interested in sponsoring DB Drag would be the one-off manufacturer. WELL GUESS WHAT, If a company only makes custom one-off equipment, they will never have the capital to sponsor db drag. HOW DOES THAT HELP ANYONE?

Letting a manufacturer turn in a list of equipment, no matter how far before finals, is worthless too. I mean, I could turn in a list of 10 different things that I think I MAY make, and then if I make them just for finals, they are legal. MAIN POINT HERE IS, Just because someone talks about building something DOESN'T mean its available.

Rules debates EVERY year are always the same. Everyone wants the rules for the masses laid out specifically for the 15 people in their class that will make it to finals. I STRONGLY suggest that Wayne NOT OPEN ANY RULES DISCUSSIONS to anyone, unless it is specifically aimed at finals rules/restrictions.

Why does USACi manage to keep going? Its not because of the heavy hitters in each class making it to finals. Its because of the THOUSANDS of entry level competitors that go to USACi events because they actually have a class where 140s isn't a joke. And where people can compete with a real world system, without being made to look like a fool.

Some people need to think HOW to make things work, not just saying they are broke.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: ea1 ]

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I 100 percent agree
like most of us PROS in the Super street or Extreme classes are not the customers but dont get me wrogn we do have custoemrs in those classes and there are a lot of guys who are custoemrs competing in these classes.

But we are forgetting about the major part of the market. The newbies who are hittign 140 and 130dB.

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Originally posted by SweetSoundsAudio:
Make it the responsibility of the competitors AND the dbdra.

Set a minimum numbers of competitors that must use the equipment by a certain date at a 3x event.

EX: at least 20 different competitors must use the equipment at a 3x event prior to Aug 15th.

Make the competitor use the equipment during a legal run and then get a photo or other proof of using the equipment. A picture with the head judge would be a great example.

It'll take a little time but would be worth it.

Also, I would say that most equipment would not need proof. For example, we all know that BD1000's are commercially available. That is common sense. The 4kw and signature were questionable. Any questionable product requires proof. The determination would be by the dbdra. A simple list could be created and made available on line.

How would you get around this?

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But: Street competitors should not have any access to anything special at all. If a new product is used in a comptition (E or SS) car it should not be availible for a S car for a period of not less than 1 year. Like Steet competitors are the bread and butter, and should not be put off by competing against pro-street, with back door products.

But development has to take place, so leave it to the upper classes to take care of this.

Look at the various levels of racing. The bottom classes even have to run road tyres, while at the top (nascar) everything is hand made.

PS, I believe there is a Zapco 4kw in England

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Originally posted by Jeremy Weber:
I am a little confused, so basically we are tailoring this sport to the newbie competitors, but then we are saying in other posts we don’t want them at finals??? And on top of that we are now making lists of what equipment we can run??? And who decides what’s on this list??? So if I don’t run Rockford (just using as an example) at finals then I am not allowed to compete at finals??? This sport has come a long way in the last three years I have been around unfortunately it seems to be back peddling more than progressing…

Also I was always under the impression that there was a rules and ethics committee… where did this go and who are the members?? And if there is one where is there voice here???

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To fully understand the reason that the Commercial Availability clause was added to the rule book, you must look at the big picture...

1. Competitors want to use products that win. Competitors also want equal access to components that are being used in dB Drag Racing competition.

2. Retailers host dB Drag Racing events as a marketing tool. In other words, they host events in an effort to sell product. It doesn't do a retailer any good to provide a marketing platform for a product that he or she can't sell.

3. Manufacturer's support the sport of dB Drag Racing by sponsoring vehicles, becoming members of the dBDRA, exhibiting at shows, and manufacturing products for use in dB Drag Racing competition. Once again, it doesn't do a manufacturer any good to fund an organization that promotes a product that is manufacturered by someone who isn't pulling their own weight.

4. The dBDRA wants all of the objectives above to be fufilled. We want competitors to have fair access to the best products. We want retailers to sell lots of products so that they will have more events and the competitors will have more opportunities to compete. Increased sales benefits the manufacturers and they are then more inclined to participate in dB Drag Racing by sponsoring vehicles, developing new products, purchasing booths at events, and supporting the dBDRA.

The dBDRA will determine the legitimacy of any given product based on criteria that is currently being developed.

The final responsibility with regards to the use of commercially available components will rest with the competitor. The questions you should be asking yourself is; "Can I walk into an auto sound retailer and purchase this product or is it only available from one or two places? Is it in widespread use or have only a few been made? Is the product off-the-shelf or is it a custom made component?" These are just a few of the issues we will be using in the final determination as to wheter a product is commercially available or not.