quote:

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If the vehicle has removable seats, then the enclosure must be behind the trailing edge of the door jamb of the backmost door when competing in the Street Division.

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I believe this would be better stated by saying that the enclosure must be behind the trailing edge of the rearmost side entry point on the vehicle.

I also believe that Street should be allowed at Nats if not than a class for competitors using daily drivers. Not semi-extreme superstreet vehicles (everybody knows only a handfull of the SS competitors drive or are capable of driving further than 50 miles).

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Will Alfonso ]

Look at the street class winner this year in 1-2. This is a newbie class. There was almost the same amount of money spent in it as the ss 1-2 winner.

1 4kw. A $6000 amp
2 shocker audio sig 12's . At least a grand retail each
So your looking at around 8g's in a street car.
give me a break Street class has been the biggest mistake in Db drag since it was created.

keep it at the lower level. Nix it at the triples and finals.

There is no such thing as a serious street vechile. If you are that seroius you need to move out of the rookie class.

I don't mean to knock anyone in street last year. Almost everyone one of them Went out and bought a Cargo Caravan just for Street class. just to compete. That is not my idea of a rookie. That is the action of a serious competor. If you have that type of drive to win. You should not be aloud to compete in a rookie class.

Look at street class results from finals
Street 1 -2
1. Team CheaterCenter 157db started the caravan deal
2. total Sound image 156 db bought a cravan for finals
8. ian aston - bought a caravan for finals

street 3-4
1. Jon fisher. Started with Astro.
2. david alfaro cought a caravan for finals
3. andy rauch - bought a caravan for finals
3. leanna lockheart bought a caravan for finals

quote:

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Originally posted by Full Moon Racing:

1 4kw. A $6000 amp
2 shocker audio sig 12's . At least a grand retail each
So your looking at around 8g's in a street car.

Look at street class results from finals
Street 1 -2
1. Team CheaterCenter 157db started the caravan deal
2. total Sound image 156 db bought a cravan for finals
8. ian aston - bought a caravan for finals

street 3-4
1. Jon fisher. Started with Astro.
2. david alfaro cought a caravan for finals
3. andy rauch - bought a caravan for finals
3. leanna lockheart bought a caravan for finals

.

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1) elimination means no reason to accrue points, as points are accrued by members only, no reason for street competitors to join dbDrag as members

2) elimination means no reason to accrue points to go to finals- as there's no reason to chase points, there's no reason to go to more than a few shows

3) no accrual of points means no reason to go to multiple shows, meaning a decrease in attendence for promotors and retail members who host the shows - lower attendence means fewer shows

4) elimination of finals activity means competitors who are bit by the bug to compete, but want to get to a season-end goal of finals, will go somewhere that they can do that, within their own fiscal/physical limitations - another sanctioning body.

5) elimination of street at finals, and the need to accrue points, and essentially, a certified score, will lower participation at major events. Manufacturers support major events. Fewer competitors likely will result in fewer spectators, and the combination of fewer spectators and entry-level competitors the main target of manufacturers and advertisers as they tend to pay retail or near retail could mean fewer manufacturers supporting dbDrag.

Now then- my suggestion has been similar to that made by many- two street divisions. Street and Street plus. The same basic rules, except street plus will accrue points towards finals. At single point events, it's the promotors discretion to put street plus and SS together, or street and street plus together.

I think Street should not be at finals. As long as it goes to finals there will always be someone like me that will abuse and ruin the class. I competed in SS 1-2 in 2000 and then in Street in 2001. I worked at a shop, and have many friends in the industry. I am in no way a "newbie". I was tired of seeing my customers get trounced by CRX's and other serious competitors. So my goal last year was to exploit every aspect of Street class. I know that sounds bad, but it was the only way I thought Street would be taken out of finals. When Street class was first created in 2000 it was not going to be offered at multipoint shows or finals. Then enough people whined and that got changed. Obviousley it was not a good change. Again I say as long as Street goes to finals it will be a subject of great controversy and will never be fair to newbies....

Another thing, you think by not allowing Cargo vans and making passenger vans put the box at the back will solve anything, it won't.

A passenger caravan with the box at the back with all the seats in is only about 1 db quiter than a cargo van. I know I have tried it. And still what about CRX's and EXP's. The EXP is almost as loud as a caravan. I know I built one......

You will still have companies like Zapco building rediculous amps, and Shocker building rediculous woofers that go above the intent of the rules......

Db Drag is not supposed to be for everyone. It is supposed to be for the elite. The few that earn the right to be called Champion. There are so many classes now it doesn't even mean anything anymore. I remember in 1998 there were 6 world champions and I can remember their names and their winning scores. There are so many now I can't even remember who won each class this year. There is not a beginner class for the NFL, NBA, NASCAR, so if we want the DBDRA to grow to that level we can't have a beginner level anyway. I know there are alot of people that cannot afford any class but street. But come on, look how much I spent to win Street class last year, almost 10 grand folks. How is that even close to beginner.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike De Pace:

LOL. You think your class is more fun to watch. Hahaha. All spectators get to see when you're in the lanes is a number pop up on a red LED display.

If a vote went up right now about whether or not to have street class at finals, the consensus would be yes, have it at finals. Why do I say this? Because the majority of dB Drag members are in Street class.

I'm not going to bother to aruge for street class at finals anymore, because I think there is pretty significant evidence that taking finals away from street will be contractionary for the sport, and that's not what Wayne is trying to do.

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How many competitors are there, total? I tried finding the number but I couldnt... I'm going to take a guess and say about 4000, total. Now, we say half of those are in street, ok thats 2000 street competitors. How many street competitors were there at finals? 30. Thus, that means 1.5% of the street competitors made it to finals. Should we be making a totally new class (pro street) for that extra 1.5%? I say no.

Should Street be allowed at finals? Honestly, I dont really care. However, I think that if it IS offered at finals, the competitors should have to work for it.

I liked the idea of not offering points in the street class at single point events. Thus, is someone in street is serious about going to finals, they will compete in a higher class, where points are offered (super street). Have points for street only offered at multi-point events, where certified scores can be established.

This follows the "minimal changes" that Wayne wanted, keeps the street competitors who want to go to finals happy, and gives the "newbies" a class where they will not be crushed. Therefore, I think the only rule that really needs to be added is:

2 classes:
Street - entry-level competitors - no finals, no points, just fun for local kids. Based on current street rules, but retailer can adjust to allow 15s or extra batteries, etc to keep the field even.

Pro Street, Superstreet Limited, 12 and under, Pro Stock, whatever you want to call it -- a class where you see what you can do with 2 12s and a single amp. These are systems SIMILAR to what a normal Joe is using. This is also for those who don't want to gut a vehicle for competition, or can't afford a separate daily driver and comp vehicle.

If you're a newbie and just want to see if you're louder than your buddy, then run street, if you're serious and want to run with the bigger boys, then run pro street, this still leaves a smaller step into the Super Street classes.

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Originally posted by Dave Lawrence:
First thing I would like to suggest is Wayne go through and delete all the replies from people that do not include their stats button.

I think Street should not be at finals. As long as it goes to finals there will always be someone like me that will abuse and ruin the class. I competed in SS 1-2 in 2000 and then in Street in 2001. I worked at a shop, and have many friends in the industry. I am in no way a "newbie". I was tired of seeing my customers get trounced by CRX's and other serious competitors. So my goal last year was to exploit every aspect of Street class. I know that sounds bad, but it was the only way I thought Street would be taken out of finals. When Street class was first created in 2000 it was not going to be offered at multipoint shows or finals. Then enough people whined and that got changed. Obviousley it was not a good change. Again I say as long as Street goes to finals it will be a subject of great controversy and will never be fair to newbies....

Another thing, you think by not allowing Cargo vans and making passenger vans put the box at the back will solve anything, it won't.

A passenger caravan with the box at the back with all the seats in is only about 1 db quiter than a cargo van. I know I have tried it. And still what about CRX's and EXP's. The EXP is almost as loud as a caravan. I know I built one......

You will still have companies like Zapco building rediculous amps, and Shocker building rediculous woofers that go above the intent of the rules......

Db Drag is not supposed to be for everyone. It is supposed to be for the elite. The few that earn the right to be called Champion. There are so many classes now it doesn't even mean anything anymore. I remember in 1998 there were 6 world champions and I can remember their names and their winning scores. There are so many now I can't even remember who won each class this year. There is not a beginner class for the NFL, NBA, NASCAR, so if we want the DBDRA to grow to that level we can't have a beginner level anyway. I know there are alot of people that cannot afford any class but street. But come on, look how much I spent to win Street class last year, almost 10 grand folks. How is that even close to beginner.....

Well enough ranting from me. I hope coming from a champion this will have some clout, but probably not..........

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Lawrence:
There is not a beginner class for the NFL, NBA, NASCAR

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Guess you've never heard of ASA, ARCA, Craftsman Trucks or the Busch Series, huh? Or even college football and basketball? Man Dave, take your head out of the big green van and watch some ESPN.

quote:

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Originally posted by netlohcs:
How many competitors are there, total? I tried finding the number but I couldnt... I'm going to take a guess and say about 4000, total. Now, we say half of those are in street, ok thats 2000 street competitors. How many street competitors were there at finals? 30. Thus, that means 1.5% of the street competitors made it to finals. Should we be making a totally new class (pro street) for that extra 1.5%? I say no.

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Why not get rid of the upper extreme classes? There was an extreme class that only had 7 people get enough points to go to finals. Why do we need to have a class for them? I could have put 13 thump 12s in my truck run off of one pyle amp and taken out my headliner and made finals, how is that fair?

quote:

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Originally posted by Wayne Harris:

• No cargo vans in the Street Division.
  
• If the vehicle has removable seats, then the enclosure must be behind the trailing edge of the door jamb of the backmost door when competing in the Street Division.
  

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shedluv:

Why not get rid of the upper extreme classes? There was an extreme class that only had 7 people get enough points to go to finals. Why do we need to have a class for them? I could have put 13 thump 12s in my truck run off of one pyle amp and taken out my headliner and made finals, how is that fair?

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I'll tell you, I am not a competitor, but I do feel my voice should be heard, as I am an avid fan. I know Wayne is trying to keep things under control, but if spectators can't speak out, he wont get all the valid opinions and ideas.

Dave, You said it man, the street class is no longer about beginners in dBdrag if its at finals. Take finals away, and get the class back to beginners. if they like the sport, move up to a Superstreet class, obviously its more expensive, but, if they want to become a serious competitor, thats what it might take.

quote:

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Originally posted by Fu