posted
OK- I have asked a lot of people but get confused bluster or an answer that doesn't make sense- at worst get no reply. First: 1. Is it possible to use two electronic crossovers in series? For example - you use a DEQ (Pioneer P9) and run it to an amplifier - two scenarios here: a. Most amps - you set the amp at the same crossover POINT but add a slope of 6 or 12 b. Zapco/other Amp with Linkwitz Reilly crossover- will you receive the benefit of phase cancellaion and no -3db issues at the crossover point?
Second - if you use VERY steep slopes - i.e. 60Dbs like CDT - would you improve your speaker response- because in theory the amplifier is only running a very specific freq. range however is the price detail? In addition would a steeper slope cancel the effect of most butterworth slope issues.
This questioning has been driving me crazy!! I have to ask the real world experts whether there is a preference for Linkwitz-Reilly crossover slopes because of axis issues - and would they not in theory be ideally suited for cars with kick panels which have off axis orientation? Well thanks in advance for your help- and also thank you for participating in these forums. It means a lot to people like me who wish to learn but not pat expensive lessons for experience.
Confucious say: A wise man learns from others mistakes - a fool learns from his own
posted
First of all, I'm no pro, but I can answer your questions.
1st Q: Yes, you can do that, with few drawbacks. I'm doing exactly that, I'm using my amps' built in crossovers along with my Symmetry's crossovers.
2nd Q: What you improve with steeper slopes is power handling, as less of what would hurt the driver is playing, allowing the driver to be played louder while staying clean. Also, in subs, the steep crossover can also help the bass up front illusion, as less midbass and midrange is coming from the rear.
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Rybaudio ]
Posts: 3957 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Thanx Ryde- but wha t about using TWO different types- Butterworth - I suppose is in the Pioneer DEQ- and the Linkwitz-Reilly. Will I cancel out the phase issues?
Posts: 93 | From: NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Let me add to his answer- The CDT 60dB crossover is a farce. If you built a 60dB passive x-over, the insertion loss from all the components would render your drivers useless.
On the crossover question, the x-over that is ahead will dictate phase response and cancellation. The second x-over will only add to the first x-overs slope, unless you change the x-over frequency or use it as a bandpass, in which case you can do some cool stuff that most normal x-overs wont allow.
posted
Ok - so it possible to have two eletronic crossovers - fine. Now Ron, if I get you - which may not be the case- If I use staggered crossovers would I be able to take advantage of the Linkwitz Relly non phase and axis properties ? Posts: 93 | From: NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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As you see your quote applies to me. Next question - what are some cool things you can do with both crssovers as you mentioned- just curious? Posts: 93 | From: NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Sorry for interupting here with a stupid question, but I'd wondered about this. Audiophile, you'd mentioned that the first crossover in the line dictates the phase and that good stuff.
So would that mean I can use my Symmetry's crossovers for all speakers, and use the amps' crossovers in addition for the subbass and midbass transition, but not for the rest of crossover points with no ill effects?
-------------------- My old work in progress. Kickpanel instructions.
posted
KH- I have done exactly that and when I'm done rebuilding I will do exactly that. From what my ears could hear, there were no ill effects. I didn't experience any problems.
Posts: 3957 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by KH: Sorry for interupting here with a stupid question, but I'd wondered about this. Audiophile, you'd mentioned that the first crossover in the line dictates the phase and that good stuff.
So would that mean I can use my Symmetry's crossovers for all speakers, and use the amps' crossovers in addition for the subbass and midbass transition, but not for the rest of crossover points with no ill effects?
NO question is stupid!
Yes, you can. You will not have any side affects from this scenario- however, things can get complicated quickly....
Phase relationship is secondary to how the system sounds and images. If you need to run drivers out of phase to get the car to sound right, then that's what you do, who cares if it's in absolute phase with the rest of the system!!!
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Not much more that I can add - Ryb & Audiophyle hit all the big points!! I've done it as well (home, stage, & car) - set x-over 1 @ hi-pass, set x-over 2 @ low-pass = band-pass for the mid-bass and/or mid-range.
Set x-over 1 @ low-pass, set x-over 2 @ low-pass (same frequency) = nearly no mid & high frequency going to the amp & driver.
Set x-over 1 @ hi-pass, set x-over 2 @ hi-pass = nearly 0 bass (or mid-bass, depending on how high you set it) to the mids & highs.
I've also added in-line passive x-overs for mids/highs. Just plain, good, old OVERKILL . The 2 x-overs = hi-pass @ somewhere around 100 - 120 Hz, then the passive divided the signal (there's a technical term, but it escapes me) between the mid-bass and tweeter drivers.
Ryb & Ron put it best, my babble is just some real world exp that I've had. Good luck .
- UB *Clock alarm will be shot if it goes off tomorrow morning*
Yes, you can. You will not have any side affects from this scenario- however, things can get complicated quickly....
Phase relationship is secondary to how the system sounds and images. If you need to run drivers out of phase to get the car to sound right, then that's what you do, who cares if it's in absolute phase with the rest of the system!!!
Thanks guys; also thanks Ron for the reassurance on my intelligence. Right, the absolute phase isn't important, but I just wanted to make sure I could do that. Like for example have 30 db/octave highpass on the low end of the mid and then only 12 db lowpass on the high end; that's more what I'd wondered about than the phase issue itself.
[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: KH ]
-------------------- My old work in progress. Kickpanel instructions.
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