posted
A local shop here in town let me hang out and we did some testing today on their Termlab.
I'm running 2 BTL 18s (walled, 14 cubes, 35hz tune, 192" of port). Using a 4kw at 1 ohm. Iraggi 200amp alt, PM d3400 up front and a d3100 in the back. This is my daily driver.
Loudest was a 150.3 with the windows down, sensor on the windshield. Windows up I dropped to a 147.6. I was pretty consistent in the low 150 range from 35-45hz with the windows down.
Here are pics of my wall before it was all the way done:
I know my one glaring weakness is having the port on the passenger side instead of the drivers side. With the hair tricks this thing does I thought it would be louder then what it is. I know what I have could/should be doing more.
I won't get to changing much tell the beginning of next year, but I'd like to go to 5 or 6kw and then redo the wall, maybe smaller and tune lower.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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i think a big part of your problem is all that dead airspace in your enclosure. with the box being so tall and your subs being along the bottom. and then that port.........
any pics of the inside of the enclosure?
-------------------- I dont mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to)......
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You must build to the vehicle, not around the contour of your vehicle. A complete rebuild is needed, check my sig for some ideas.
Next, you have SEVERE phase problems with your wall. This is why most people place woofers on top of each other if there are two in a wall. Now if you want to keep your symmetry, I would suggest placing your port above the woofers.
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Fo sho, move the port and/or flip the subs you should be able to do over a 150 tuned low still (legal) I wouldn't really tune any lower though, it will probably hurt your score a little and you're not really missing low end right now. The 150 range at 35 will be pretty sick.
-------------------- TEAM MAXXSONICS! Posts: 3930 | From: The Mean Streets of Tinley, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm not an acustical engineer but dead airspace is bad.. I'd like to see the inside of the box too.. looks interesting. Theres nothing wrong with hitting 149.. you're literally tearing your ear drums to pieces! isnt that enough!?
-------------------- Shop keeper: "No, that part is not available. The company no longer makes them." Customer: "Does that mean you cant get it...?" Posts: 523 | From: White City FL | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Powered By Hate: I'm not an acustical engineer but dead airspace is bad.. I'd like to see the inside of the box too.. looks interesting. Theres nothing wrong with hitting 149.. you're literally tearing your ear drums to pieces! isnt that enough!?
Not nearly enough. Lol. Doing those burps that were metering 150, it didn't sound that loud. Music sounds louder to the ear in it to me.
I understand what you guys are saying. I didn't know it would cause issues like that with the way I have it. I'm probably going to keep the subs on the bottom and have the port across the top when I redo it. We're finally getting some comps up here, so I'd like to throw up some decent numbers.
I know I had some pics of the inside, but I am not finding them anywhere.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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guys these are 18s i dont think he has enough room 1 over the other.
make ur port over the subs and large(300sq" min) tune to 40hz or higher. this will make you ALOT louder.
with ur box soo tall and ur port being tall it will really effect ur output by dropping it...
Posts: 6722 | From: north rose,ny | Registered: Aug 2002
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"Next, you have SEVERE phase problems with your wall. This is why most people place woofers on top of each other if there are two in a wall. Now if you want to keep your symmetry, I would suggest placing your port above the woofers." --just courious, i am a noob with all this stuff and i really want to learn.. what do you mean by this statement. (what is actually taking place.. why... ect..)
-------------------- i like bass. Posts: 130 | From: nj | Registered: Feb 2003
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phasing issues means the speakers arnet moving in and out at the exact same time.
Ever pushed on a sub and the other pushed out? Thats what we're talking about. When power is applied they should be right on the money going in and out in and out at the exact same time.
Those guys with 48 10's and 24 15's they know about this issue more than anyone. Less speakers is less **** to go wrong.
-------------------- Shop keeper: "No, that part is not available. The company no longer makes them." Customer: "Does that mean you cant get it...?" Posts: 523 | From: White City FL | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pimpin at my house: guys these are 18s i dont think he has enough room 1 over the other.
make ur port over the subs and large(300sq" min) tune to 40hz or higher. this will make you ALOT louder.
with ur box soo tall and ur port being tall it will really effect ur output by dropping it...
Correct, it would be difficult to stack one on top of the other. I could angle them though, one on the bottom left, one on the top right. I'm planning to just put the port on top.
How would a 40hz tune with that much port affect the low bass output? Right now the songs I play that are in the 30-33hz range sound awesome and it moves a good amount of air. I don't want to lose too much down low. I mostly listen to Gucci Mane, Jeezy, etc... on it.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Powered By Hate: phasing issues means the speakers arnet moving in and out at the exact same time.
Ever pushed on a sub and the other pushed out? Thats what we're talking about. When power is applied they should be right on the money going in and out in and out at the exact same time.
Those guys with 48 10's and 24 15's they know about this issue more than anyone. Less speakers is less **** to go wrong.
Sort of with the phasing. If you slightly decrease the woofer closer to the port just right you will see an increase. You need it to be slightly out of sync if the port is going to be there. We are dealing with pressure getting to the port inside the enclosure. You would not have to do that if the port was on the top.
BTW, plenty of room for 18s on top of each other, just not with that enclosure. You need to start over, that enclosure was a good attempt, now take it apart and build a better one.
posted
Had a MECA show today. Did a 151.5 on the drivers side with the passenger door open only, meter on drivers side. That was at 39 hz, which was my peak frequency.
Did a 120.5 in drive by.
Hopefully will have time and money to work on this soon.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Here's an update as I redid some things. Would this be considered 'better'? I actually just got done doing this so I haven't even listened to it yet.
This box is 14 cubes, tuning is somewhere between 34-36hz, with 240" of port. Hoping to get it metered sometime this week and see what she does.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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nice that was quick!!!!I also think you are going to see better numbers with the port on the top but watch that windshield, on my team we have a box sort of like that with 4 12's and that window flexes like crazy with lots less power than you have, good luck,,,,,see ya in the lanes..........
-------------------- 12 VOLTS BABY!!!!! TEAM STETSOM USA & SALES REP TEAM STINGER BUY OHIO GENERATORS WORLD FINALS COMPETITOR 2005,2006,2008,2009 SUPER STREET 1-2 CERTIFIED 161.0 DB MARYLANDS LOUDEST DAILY DRIVER N.S.P.L. STATE RECORD HOLDER 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009 TEAM USAudio Stetsom Sales and Service stetsomrep1@hotmail.com Posts: 2227 | From: Maryland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Money is kinda tight, otherwise another XS d3100 would be going in.
Finally got to listen to it and... it sucks. Not sure what happened, think I might be tuned to high now for what I listen to daily. My low low end (30hz area) seems like it has been cut in half. I'm getting a lot of port flex, so I'm going to try throwing a divider in there when I get time. Extremely dissapointing nonetheless. I don't even want to think about redoing this again.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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-------------------- 12 VOLTS BABY!!!!! TEAM STETSOM USA & SALES REP TEAM STINGER BUY OHIO GENERATORS WORLD FINALS COMPETITOR 2005,2006,2008,2009 SUPER STREET 1-2 CERTIFIED 161.0 DB MARYLANDS LOUDEST DAILY DRIVER N.S.P.L. STATE RECORD HOLDER 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009 TEAM USAudio Stetsom Sales and Service stetsomrep1@hotmail.com Posts: 2227 | From: Maryland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Putting a divider in the middle wont really effect tuning that much, especially if you are going to shrink the port down anyway. I did a box alot like this for 2 Treo SSX 18s in a lincoln navigator. It was the same sub/port placement. I never was pleased with the results with it either. We tried tuning from 32 all the way to 40 and it just never did sound right. Next wall is going to be 2 18 HDC3s and 1 16 inch round port.
-------------------- Cadence CMW6 Components Orion 4004 Component Amp Soundstream XXX-6500D for now AudioQue HDC3 15 Alum D1 151 from the trunk National Champion MidwestSPL Basic Trunk Posts: 93 | From: Des Moines Iowa | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AQIntrepid: Putting a divider in the middle wont really effect tuning that much, especially if you are going to shrink the port down anyway. I did a box alot like this for 2 Treo SSX 18s in a lincoln navigator. It was the same sub/port placement. I never was pleased with the results with it either. We tried tuning from 32 all the way to 40 and it just never did sound right. Next wall is going to be 2 18 HDC3s and 1 16 inch round port.
Interesting. Seems like everyone has told me either port across the top or stack the subs. Main problem I'm having is port flex. I really really need to brace my port. Then redo my trim panels. I'm getting some terrible noise from the top trim panel making me not even want to listen to the system. Hopefully will get it all ironed out on tuesday. Seems like the potential is there, just gotta redo and adjust some small things. I do like the airflow that I'm getting out of the port though. Was moving my ex-gf's hair with her sitting normally in the passenger seat (ie- not with her head in the window).
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Well a small update, I have lost some dbs. Lol. With a legal dbdrag reading, I'm only doing a 149 and change. That's from 30-50hz though. Loudest reading in the car at the headrest is a 150.3
I'm louder with my port area at 215 compared to all the way open at 240.
I'm thinking maybe my biggest problem is the strength and integrity of my enclosures. Might have to brace more and maybe try my hand at some resin.
Or maybe I'm getting what I should be out of this equipment? Seems like I should be a lot louder though.
-------------------- Fi Cactus Sounds Orion Eclipse Image Dynamics Iraggi XS Power Posts: 1459 | From: Grand Forks, North Dakota | Registered: Apr 2001
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u need to take some time and re do that box properly. no short cuts. looks to me like u tried a quick fix. make the box strong, make sure u get the tuning u want, check it with test tones. you shouldnt need very much bracing if the box was built solid. my no wall setup has no bracing. 2 layers of 1 inch and a lot of polyurethane inside the box as smooth as glass. box is rock solid. good luck bro.
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