This was a simple first draft for the new Street Stock division. After speaking with a number of judges, the following suggestions were made...
No Vans, CRXs, Pandas, or commercial vehicles
Only traditional lead-acid, 6-cell, 12-volt batteries
Contestant must play music only. No test tones.
Thanks for your input.
Manufacturers are really excited about this new division. Essentially, we will all be PARTNERS in this new approach. It is time we made car stereo cool again.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
wayne whens the real rules coming out im sure we all will like to know i say in street stock 50hz can will fix the crx and panda and with no test tones it be great .
-------------------- TEAM420 TEAM KINETIK TEAM MAXXSONICS T3AUDIO TEAM DCAUDIO SS 1-2 3rd PLACE 2007 INDY "REGIONALS" SS 1-2 1ST PLACE INDY AND 2008 NATIONAL CHAMPION.
posted
the only things I could suggest is a limit on the number on runs of wire, and strapped amps should not be allowed. This class is for the average consumer. The average consumer does not have strapped mono block amps in the trunk.
posted
you cannot start banning vehicles in my opinion this will be bad. Now CRXs and Pandas are rare so really banning them won't affect many. Problem is Explorers are loud too...why not ban them...oh now were banning minivans and SUVs which is a large percentage of cars on the road. I really don't understand what the hard-on is for banning minivans it makes no sense...and to ban minivans and not SUVs makes no sense...and to band CRXs and not Ford EXPs makes no sense...and to ban Pandas and not Yaris's makes no sense. I hope I make my point Wayne you are a smart man but this idea of banning cars is retarded.
--------------------
2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3169 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
I agree, it is foolish to ban specific vehicles. Banning commercial vehicles maybe but not specific vehicles. I would also require fusing on every power run. The music idea is a good one, kind of eliminates the need for a frequency ceiling.
-------------------- Team T3Audio Team Cactus Sounds 2008 - Second in N. America 2009 - N. American Champion http://www.myspace.com/getlouddesigns Posts: 1236 | From: StreetMaxville, NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Eliminating "certain" vehicles from the mix is not a good idea (okay so I'm a 'lil biased there). No one really wants to be told " Sorry,but you can't play in this sandbox". Ever think we may just be alienating some of the target audience? There has to be other options other than exclusion for this to work. Some possible ideas:
- limits on fusing of power cable - limits on runs of power cable. - drop battery size to 700^3
Everyone is so worried about this class-I liken it to pine box races from JETS and Cub Scouts: Everyone starts out with the same level of equipment-its up to the individual to maximize its potential! Yes there are a lot of "grey areas" potental - but why not focus on the positives that these classes can offer instead.
Its all about having fun and growing our "sport". Personally with a kid starting college in the fall I would rather spend $1100 on a small system,be competative,make friends and have fun than sit and contemplate spending $7000 and wondering "Is it even worth it?"
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
posted
First of all the street stock class is totally messed up anyways.
#1: Create a rule stating all vehicles must have factory rear seating and mounted in the factory locations with the exception of regular cab trucks.
#2: Absolutely NO WALLS. Not very street stock.
#3: No vehicle mods that would be considered to enhance spl. This will be left up to the judges.
#4: Require normal use. Besides what is street beating about.
#5: Require music with maximum spl within 30 sec.
Now, for the rest of the classes, here is what it should look like for varioous reasons.
Street Stock A Street Stock B Street A Street B Super Street NW (no woofer limit) Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3+ Extreme
All classes would be represented at finals. This structure will make for more competition per class and will represent the majority of competitors currently competing. It would cost less with the reduced class sizes. I eliminated Freestyle because I feel this will just be another monster type class that nobody competes in or it will become a catch all with no real excitement. For Extreme, it has been proven year after year in a controlled environment in which a person can manipulate the mic effectively, it doesn't matter how many woofers you have.
This isn't an all inclusive reasoning, but I could be here all night explaining in detail how these changes would GREATLY revive DB Drag in every way possible. Also, if DB Drag was to gain dealer and manufacturer support in conjunction with lower cost involved....competitors just might see cash payouts again.
Just some thoughts from an over-the-hill veteran, ha-ha.
Later,
Jason Meyer
-------------------- 2004 SS 1-2NW World Champion 2005 World Finals SS 1-2NW 2nd Place 2006 World Finals SS 1-2NW 3rd Place Team Maxxsonics Member of Broken Silence Competition Team Posts: 194 | From: Sedalia, MO, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Street C -I don't like this class for street due to cost, but I am sure people will still show up for it.
One more thing Wayne. Keep in mind that what this organization needs is to attract real people with real car audio systems. All you need to do is look at the average person and don't stray from there too far.
Most common setup is gonna be 2-15's, 2-12's, or 2-10's with power ranging from 500 watts-1000 watts. Now, ask youself,"Where can these guys compete in my organization and be competitive and gain an accomplishment they can be proud of forever?".
If you can get the above statement to apply, you will naturally get growth and all the support you will ever need from EVERYBODY!!!
Just food for thought,
Jason Meyer
-------------------- 2004 SS 1-2NW World Champion 2005 World Finals SS 1-2NW 2nd Place 2006 World Finals SS 1-2NW 3rd Place Team Maxxsonics Member of Broken Silence Competition Team Posts: 194 | From: Sedalia, MO, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: you cannot start banning vehicles in my opinion this will be bad. Now CRXs and Pandas are rare so really banning them won't affect many. Problem is Explorers are loud too...why not ban them...oh now were banning minivans and SUVs which is a large percentage of cars on the road. I really don't understand what the hard-on is for banning minivans it makes no sense...and to ban minivans and not SUVs makes no sense...and to band CRXs and not Ford EXPs makes no sense...and to ban Pandas and not Yaris's makes no sense. I hope I make my point Wayne you are a smart man but this idea of banning cars is retarded.
Crx and pandas are rare until you involve this sport..... I say leave them out, the few it effects can go to street. This will prevent some people from backing down in the street stock classes and leave them where they should be.
-------------------- Scott Christensen Posts: 11356 | From: Victoria, TX | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
If we are looking at systems that are put in to cars at a normal shop then lets go over what I would do when I was installing.
Normal Use - Everything I built for street cars had normal use everywhere but a lot of things were custom.
Make the rule reflect what people are doing in street anyway.
Subs/Subs Boxes - I would package something together that would sell for a decent markup subwise and I would either build a nice box or grab a prefab off the shelf. The one thing that was consistant was that I NEVER let a car go out with exposed wood unless it was an SPL car.
I say make a rule that sub boxes must have permanent covering.
Amps - I think 90% of amps I sold were non-strappable. I did sell a lot of amps and then had the people come back to add a second one to run a subs per woofer. The only problem is that not all of them were mono amps. I could sell an A/B two channel pretty cheap for just the subs, and tell the customer that later when they got more money they could move it to the highs. They get more money and buy a 4 ch for highs and another 2 ch for the second sub. I also had kids buy a 4 channel using half for subs and half for highs. Later after buying another amp they used the 4 ch bridged to 2 for subs.The rules right now award another amp for buying a monoblock.
Why not limit it to either 1 amp regardless of channels or a single monoblock amplifier. Help out the shops. I know if I have a kid that gets bumped up with a 60x4 when someone else has a pair of 2000Ds I just lost a customer.
Podiums - Never put one in a street car, and get questioned about my podium whenever I bring it out. Usual question...How do you work the radio when its in the trunk?
Podiums not needed in a street car.
Power Wire - I would always try and get 2 if not 4 runs in the car on install. I would charge for the wire and labor on the first run of wire. Any other wire bought that day was 1/2 price and labor was free, up to 2 powers and 2 grounds.
I think a normal limit on power wires would be a good thing, but I know I built cars that after 2 wires I told them its cheaper to add another battery then 2 more wires.
Battery/Alt - I always tried to sell upgrades to both. I just used Kinetiks calculator to find the batteries. One thing I did notice was they usually recommended HC2000s just more of them as the wattage went up. I had a scientific method of figuring out the alt. If the amps cost more then the alt I put in an alt before adding batts. I also don't want open conductors so every battery has to go in a battery box.
I would say look at what the industry says for alts/batts and go on that.
Walls - I've never put a wall in a car that wasn't for SPL. When judging I have also had to try and explain that the box is 1/2" too tall and is a wall. Catch-22 on some installs. Most people just build to the top of the back seats in an SUV.
I say that you can build to the top of the rearmost seats and the enclosure has to be in the cargo area only.
quote:Originally posted by ---Navi---: Crx and pandas are rare until you involve this sport.....I say leave them out, the few it effects can go to street. This will prevent some people from backing down in the street stock classes and leave them where they should be.
Once again try to look at the BIGGER picture. Who's buying theses cars outside of our sport...teenagers with limited funds. For many on our side of the world a CRX or an Integra is a first car with potential. Many purchase entry level gear for it. I believe that they are part of out target demographic for growth.
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
posted
I'm totally against banning certain/brands of cars. If you ban Panda's, you also have to ban Seat Marbella's (same car, different manufacturers). Also in Europe (like in the Netherlands) those Marbella's and Panda's are daily driven by "none serious" audio fanatics, so those giys will get bumped just because they decided to buy a cheap car?
And if those cars get banned, a new "super" db-drag car will stand up...
-------------------- Team DD Belgium - Dieter 2004: 153.2dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2005: 156,5dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified / 159.1dB @ IDBL Stock 1 worldrecord 2006:157.5 dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2007: 158.2 dB Worldrecord Street A / 158.3 dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2008: Benelux dB-drag judge Posts: 796 | From: Belgium | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Then what should be done to prevent seasoned vets from backing down into this class whipping up on the new guys and defeating the purpose of this class?
-------------------- Scott Christensen Posts: 11356 | From: Victoria, TX | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Playing normal music is going to keep the high frequency vehicles such as pandas and crxs from just dominating. I also agree there should be no walls and no podiums. Also, just lower the size of the battery to maybe 600 or 700.
-------------------- Team T3Audio Team Cactus Sounds 2008 - Second in N. America 2009 - N. American Champion http://www.myspace.com/getlouddesigns Posts: 1236 | From: StreetMaxville, NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ---Navi---: Then what should be done to prevent seasoned vets from backing down into this class whipping up on the new guys and defeating the purpose of this class?
If any serious dB Dragger drops into this class then they get the treatment they deserve, we all point and laugh at them until they cry like the big girl that they are.
Its a class for noobs and Joe Bloggs, I doubt anyone on this forum qualifies.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: you cannot start banning vehicles in my opinion this will be bad. Now CRXs and Pandas are rare so really banning them won't affect many. Problem is Explorers are loud too...why not ban them...oh now were banning minivans and SUVs which is a large percentage of cars on the road. I really don't understand what the hard-on is for banning minivans it makes no sense...and to ban minivans and not SUVs makes no sense...and to band CRXs and not Ford EXPs makes no sense...and to ban Pandas and not Yaris's makes no sense. I hope I make my point Wayne you are a smart man but this idea of banning cars is retarded.
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4824 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
-Do not limit what cars can be used. bad idea. -I am on the fence on the music only part, as I can tell people/customers who are somewhat new to dB Drag to get a membership and play a certain note. Makes my job alot easier and more consistant for the competitor. If they choose to do bass race they have that option.
So I like the ability to use a note in street classes. Maybe limit the note to 50 hz, I have yet to hear an enclosure sound good that peaks over 50 hz.
I would like to see this class more orientated to beginners with a Deck, 4 channel high end amp& speakers, 1500w amp, and a couple subs and one run of 4 guage.
Hate to say it but we need to support the manufactures on this one in regards to product.
We cannot allow multiple runs of 0 gauge to amps that are just not able to run daily off a single stock battery/alternator. This is the biggest problem we have.
Limit the class to mid/entry level equipment and we help the manufactures who in turn support our sport with cash prizes,trophies etc....
Can't believe I just wrote that but its true.
Oh almost forgot Street class should not allow strapped amps. One amp limit 2 conducter amp can be any amp on the approved list.
[ 01-28-2008, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: dB Don ]
-------------------- -Donald Hebig -All Out S.P.L. Saskatchewan's dB Drag event promoter -Check the Termpro homepage partners for the companies I support. Posts: 2600 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
As for the vets why will you point and laugh?
Imagine these 2 situations.
One day a new guy goes to a show. He sees a car like his with his woofers and amps in it. Car is in street stock and its run by a veteran. That car does better numbers then the new guys car. New guy asks why and is told its more about the install then the product, But I could build you a new box cheaper then you buying all new equipment.
Next day another show in another part of the country. A street stock car goes in the lanes and is louder then some of the higher class cars with more money in equipment. This day new guy and his friend are watching. They looked at the Street cars and added up the money the low number guys are doing and freak out. Then they add up the money the Stock car has in it and add the install cost and figure out it is cheaper to have lower dollar stuff installed by a good installer then higher price stuff bought at a discount and installed by a buddy.
These ideas are not that far fetched. I remember telling a customer that I wouldn't sell him all new gear for his car. He had a product that some people called cheap. He believed everyone and decided to get rid of everything. I told him he needed a new box. It would not be cheap but I if he didn't like it then I'll pull the box we just built out and sell him anything he wanted. After all was said and done I think the box added just over 4 db to the system and its still in use as a daily box.
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3919 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ---Navi---: Then what should be done to prevent seasoned vets from backing down into this class whipping up on the new guys and defeating the purpose of this class?
What prevents them from doing that now in the current street class? Are you gonna "sandbag" when your competition is qualifying 10dB down from your lowest score? Something to think about.
As a pro installer I look at the class as something that everyone can get involved in. Most of my customers assume that we have the very best in our own personal cars-for the most part they are right. Many of my pals won't compete because of the cost factor to be competitive. How confident would a customer to be about thier purchase if they were using the same gear as thier installer? How cool would it be to have more techs and shops get involved because the of the 'race on sunday...sell on monday' philosphy ?
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
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