quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: unfortunately what Terrry Brocks said is correct. People will buy gear but they won't buy it from you, even if street class is made entry level they will come and then when they get beat by a little and want to get some better gear they will buy online form a non-authorized retailer. As a rule retailers are very bad at promoting their dbdrag shows which is alot of the reason that turnout is so bad as well
Well, you may not buy from your local store, but back when MECA was cheap I had 16 guys going to shows, and 12 cars at their finals.
the problem with having power classes, or any kind of classes, is the manufacturers. No amp manufacturer has ever won a finals in a power limited class because they had the best amp, only because they had the best rating or the right guy using them
I think a combination of MSRP,size, and power ratings might work.....
MSRP under $1k Under X sq inches Rated under 2000 watts
you have to get 2 out of three to be legal
Interesting idea. i think it might work brad. it could be used in all classes to bring the cost down. With minor chages to ratings for higher classes?
posted
I dont the heck know why always this MSRP thing comes up ! Who ever bought an US product over here? Or bought an Euro Product over there ? Even limit power by any ratings is hard, but more possible than a MSRP limit. If dB Drag was a "just US thing", ok. But AFAIK it isnt...
Limiting wire runs is one of the only ways. A 1 gauge wire is the same around the world, and electrical laws are same in the whole universe (at least the known universe). So I guess digital Amps are in advance, but you get a lot of juice out of analog amps also. And I think no wire will burn bc of a 2-5 second burp, if it comes to dangerous "overloads" amps will shut down before. If somebody has already installed millions of wire runs, great, just put them out and sell them. Copper price raises daily, so you can make good money out of it
Fuses are also hard to address and not everybody will be willing to install something for competing from time to time.
Ü MM
-------------------- www.sqpl.de I´m a Kraut,and I want it loud! Üüüühh!!!
quote:Originally posted by Brad Eubank: MSRP under $1k Under X sq inches Rated under 2000 watts
you have to get 2 out of three to be legal
Lets just have a look at this price thing for a minute.
List some prices of equipment that we are going to have in the UK and I will compare them.
UK prices will be atleast 50% more and in some case, the Crown, twice.
You want an even playing field then forget price limits, we do not have a world economy.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Wait until "they" wanna buy an european product and complain that they cannot use it over there, but we can over here... (happened in the past AFAIK)
Ü MM
-------------------- www.sqpl.de I´m a Kraut,and I want it loud! Üüüühh!!!
quote:Originally posted by Tinted: i can see poeple popping blood vessels over this. just leave everything the way it is.
the reality of the situation is that street class is not for begginers, the retail is doomed regardless, and someone will always push the envilope. now that we have our facts straight lets move on.
what we really need is more defined rules and/or better judges for street class.
As Wayne mentioned, he is leaving the current street classes, just maybe renaming them and creating new "true" street classes.
-------------------- WHERE'S MY POP-TART???!!!
Distortion doesn't kill subs, idiots do.
Ahhh, the sweet smell of burnt coils.
original competitor ID #41 Posts: 697 | From: Jackson, Mich. | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Heres a few thoughts for new classes. Use current street class rules but with a few modifications:
- Limit runs of power cable. (2-1 pos and 1 neg for smaller and 4 runs (2pos/2 neg) for larger.
- add fuses within 18" of the battery 150a max smaller 300a larger.
- let the cars run! (if venue allows) with max RPM of 2000 rpm.
- divide class structure to allow sq surface area up to a single 13.5" subs in one and a single 18" sub in the other.
Logic:
- The average size amp that sold is between 1200-1600 watts rms. Why not cater to what we as retailers and manufactures see leave our doors daily? Ever hear the phrase "race on Sunday...sell on Monday. I think more retailers and consumers would get on board if they could see the benefit for them.
- It takes power to make power. Upgrading the charging system is a natural progression in autosound. Letting the car run would allow for a reason to support that part of the autosound community. Also by letting the cars run would most likely take the big dollar "multicell battery" out of the equation.
- fuses are a great equalizer. If the current is exceeded they blow. Now before someone states about manipulation-lets think about it for a moment. If you spent a few hard earned dollars on a amp would you risk damaging it by starving it just to be in a lower power classification? (appologies to MECA)
Change is enevitable. If nothing is done to bring the average core autosound customer into the fold-how long will there be this hobby?
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
quote:Originally posted by TheBigOki: Wait until "they" wanna buy an european product and complain that they cannot use it over there, but we can over here... (happened in the past AFAIK)
Ü MM
What?
-------------------- Team Cactus Sounds Team XS Power Posts: 2405 | From: WI | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by AudioRoach: - divide class structure to allow sq surface area up to a single 13.5" subs in one and a single 18" sub in the other.
Street A allows for 1 - 13.5" speaker Street C allows for 1 - 18" speaker
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8603 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by AudioRoach: - divide class structure to allow sq surface area up to a single 13.5" subs in one and a single 18" sub in the other.
Street A allows for 1 - 13.5" speaker Street C allows for 1 - 18" speaker
LOL. I thought that was a easy way of dividing the "new" classes up. The average consumer does 2 12" subs so they are more likely to be classed in the larger classes. I thought of maybe limiting it to a single 15" driver,but there are car with 2 15" drivers and some with a single 18". I just did'nt want to make it lop sided so to speak.
How about the rest of my ideas?
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
posted
For street A/B/C, limit batteries to AGM or lead acid types. Limit battery CCA. No "specialty" batteries. Require fuses or circuit breakers in all classes for everyones safety.
Posts: 592 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Half the amp limits in Street and Max, ditch the multi cell batteries.
Leave everything else.
Have an official MS, with regional finals but not worlds.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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just create a smaller class with new set of rules, broblem solved
--------------------
2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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we have been doing some local shows with this format, and the scores on the top 3 have been within a db or two
a. Trucks, standard cab or ext, box under rear seat b. Trunk car, box must be intrunk c. Suv and hatch vehicle, box must be in trunk, no CRX d. Open
No limit on anything else except type of vehicle. It is very easy to judge, no need to even look at the system except to confirm it is where its supposed to be, place the mic and run the car.
There has to be a class that doesnt allow CRXs and Pandas for this to work. Let CRXs compete in the regular classes. Anyone that has a CRX is a serious competetor anyway.
Posts: 1718 | From: Dickson,TN,USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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Hers what u do,we did it in 4wd mudracing in the 90's,we had st a and st b,but how were we gonna know what people had in ther engine,so we renamed them pro a and pro b,the size of the tires made ea class,dbdrag could go with pro a, pro b, and pro c, and leave the classes as they are now,
-------------------- RODNEY BUSCH,TEAM SHOCKER AUDIO USA TEAM GATES 98 99 ran whitlee two dudes comps,usac 01 RAN STREET 1-2 WHEN IT HAD A 600WATT LIMIT 4 dr trunk car, 01 DIDNT WANT TO GO, TO MANY VANS WITH AMPS UNDER THE HOOD.4dr trunk car 02 WORLD FINALIST STREET 1-2 CERT 148.3 1 AMP 4DR TRUNK CAR. 03 WORLD FINALIST STREET A, TEAM MEMPHIS FORCE, 04 DIDNT MAKE FINALS BY 2 POINTS 04 MECA WORLD FINALIST, 5TH S2,MEMPHIS FORCE, 151.9, 2ND RSPL 05 WORLD FINALS 7TH PLACE STREET B 152.1 (WE WON THE 3 WAY TIE, DID A 152.5) 06 world finalist, bad head unit, Posts: 1735 | From: OHIO AT 1 TIME THE LOUDEST STATE | Registered: Jan 2001
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Another way to go is have a crx class or just a 2 seater class to compete against ea other,
-------------------- RODNEY BUSCH,TEAM SHOCKER AUDIO USA TEAM GATES 98 99 ran whitlee two dudes comps,usac 01 RAN STREET 1-2 WHEN IT HAD A 600WATT LIMIT 4 dr trunk car, 01 DIDNT WANT TO GO, TO MANY VANS WITH AMPS UNDER THE HOOD.4dr trunk car 02 WORLD FINALIST STREET 1-2 CERT 148.3 1 AMP 4DR TRUNK CAR. 03 WORLD FINALIST STREET A, TEAM MEMPHIS FORCE, 04 DIDNT MAKE FINALS BY 2 POINTS 04 MECA WORLD FINALIST, 5TH S2,MEMPHIS FORCE, 151.9, 2ND RSPL 05 WORLD FINALS 7TH PLACE STREET B 152.1 (WE WON THE 3 WAY TIE, DID A 152.5) 06 world finalist, bad head unit, Posts: 1735 | From: OHIO AT 1 TIME THE LOUDEST STATE | Registered: Jan 2001
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People tend to forget most kids or new competitors dont buy 4-5k watt amps. Instead they buy multiple 1000-1500watt amps over time. why not limit the size of the amps and how many. Maybe 2 small amps for one class and four small amps for the other,or 6,8 whatever amps? Its just something for the new guys and the old competitors can keep things he same in current street classes. Or another idea is keep the rules for the new class the same as the current street class, but limit the size of the amps used. So it gives them the feel of the other class without the expenses. So some kid in in the new street A or what its name may be, could use 2 strapped 1000, or 1500ds, and still be competitive. just my .02cents
quote:Originally posted by Empire Audio-Mike: Do away with the 140db Rule.
Hell yes.
Make competitors wear cans.
Serious competitors have to run externally.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Oh and I forgot. When thinking about sponsored cars then you have to eliminate ALL shop owners/workers, along with anyone that gets a discount from a manufacturers. I know a major company that gives competitor discounts to EVERYONE.
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3937 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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Sponsorships/hook ups/deals/whatever. Way way too hard to enforce, so just forget it.
There will always be a loophole.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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