-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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my kangoo had visible sounddeadener all the years I compete with it never had a problem with it
if you want, put deadener in it and repaint it that would be 100% legal to me
is there a rule about deadening that it my not be visible ???
-------------------- POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL michel van wijk superstreet 1-2 no-wall 159.3 @ 66hz certified Posts: 937 | From: holland | Registered: Dec 2004
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my kangoo had visible sounddeadener all the years I compete with it never had a problem with it
if you want, put deadener in it and repaint it that would be 100% legal to me
is there a rule about deadening that it my not be visible ???
You had the dampning visible in the cargo area of your Kangoo, not in the passenger compartement. That's why it was allowed
-------------------- Team DD Belgium - Dieter 2004: 153.2dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2005: 156,5dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified / 159.1dB @ IDBL Stock 1 worldrecord 2006:157.5 dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2007: 158.2 dB Worldrecord Street A / 158.3 dB @ dB-Drag Street A certified 2008: Benelux dB-drag judge Posts: 808 | From: Belgium | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
who cares if a shop does it or not? There is nowere in the rule book saying that it has to be installed like a shop would install it!!!! Also I am sure if you asked a shop to install it on the outside they would do it they just dont be default because they assume people want it hidden
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3172 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ShockingCanada: who cares if a shop does it or not? Also I am sure if you asked a shop to install it on the outside they would do it they just dont be default because they assume people want it hidden
posted
I have been to several local events, a couple of events on a more national level, a few USACi events and so forth. EVERY organization has the same issues. The major problem is that (and all I can say is DUH its common sense) no rule book can be all encompassing.
In this sport, everyone is looking for that edge, that extra quarter DB (or in my case - that extra 45 dbs)
So long as that is happening, you will always find those that are looking for a loophole, a work around, or whatever. And because of this you will always find the judges out there where one will say - "Hmmm - doesnt specifically say that in the rule book" and another that says "Well that violates the spirit of the rule" and yet maybe another that says "That is a clear violation of the rule". Rules are just words written down and subject to interpretation. So long as one word can mean 50 different things (thats an exaggeration) - then that rule can have up to 50 different viewpoints.
Can we "clearly define every rule"? Hello!!!! - have you looked at the constitution lately? Its not the same anymore. There are so many amendments and riders attached that even IT is open to negotiation. Our "inalienable rights" are not so inalienable any more and they are mostly wrongs instead of rights.
If we as a nation cant do it, what makes you think one little (sorry - but we are still little here) car audio organization can do it? I mean - look at this thread, it talks about a rule that disallows the "altering of the vehicle stance" but as it is pointed out later, it doesnt matter if there are two buddies sitting on the back of the car. And yes, altering the stance (raising the front or lowering the back) does impact the string test if it is administered correctly. This would allow an extra inch or two of box space. And it is an example of how the rule is not specific enough.
Will there ever be a perfect rule book? Nope - not a chance. Like I said - people push the limits every competition we have. They try something new - something very innovative (I mean - we do have some creative thinkers in this sport) - sometimes they are clear violations (hello - batteries in the amps) and sometimes they are vague. Either way - one rule has always been clear - its the judge that has the final decision at the event. Fair or not - thats the way it goes.
Thank you - the soap box is now free - someone else may take the stand Posts: 1320 | From: Lawrence, KS | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
as I am not american I have no idea about the constitution. All I know is that if we want something to be in the rule book then put it in, if its not in there then it is legal there should be no "intent" or "spirit" taken into the rules, its black and white as written so there is no reason to try to make up gray areas
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3172 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
I was told by a world finals judge that if the van did not have panels in places where a panel would typically be and I want sound deadener in that location, it would be acceptable to put carpet over it and it would be legal. Hope that helps a little. This is in referance to areas infront of the b-pillar.
-------------------- TEAM KINETIK'S Dentist Worlds Loudest Dentist 8 years and running 2002 Memphis Car Audio Competitor of the Year 2004 SS 3-4 World Finals 5th Place 2005 SS 3-4 SBN Daytona 2nd Place 2005 SS 3-4 World Finals 4th Place 2006 SS 3-4 WORLD Finals 2nd Place 2007 SS 3-4 Indy regional 2nd Place 2008 SS 3-4 Indy regional 1st Place 167.8db Posts: 795 | From: Morgantown, WV | Registered: May 2004
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posted
i had exposed deadener at indy. wasnt a problem there. i seen a sm vehicle covered in it, the whole face of the box.b
-------------------- Proud member of BROKEN SILENCE COMPETITION CLUB Team PSI Team DBDRIVE Team DBLINK Team DBDRIVEN Team Ohio Generators Team MAXXSONICS 11X WORLD RECORD HOLDER(builder of a few others) ITS NOT WHAT YOU BUY, ITS WHAT YOU BUILD! Posts: 735 | From: missouri | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Year after year the rules are becoming more "petty"
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4995 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence - Johnny: Tor did not make up a rule on the string test thing. They spent a lot of time figuring out where the window line is, and they determined it to be at that point, they were just trying to make it easier for the competitors.
As far as the sound deadener, does a stereo shop put dynamat where you can see it?
This is 100% correct.... And ask competitors that have a panda here in europe (Well I do not know Germany) about how many complains they have done after we figured out that point...
And by the way ITS NOT A NEW RULE, ITS A INSTRUCTION....
posted
I guess you guys forget about this, its in the rulebook
The dB Drag Racing Association (dBDRA) has gone to great lengths to insure that the rules for competing in dB Drag Racing are as comprehensive and unambiguous as possible. Even so, there will invariably be times when a particular application or installation will fall outside the scope of this rulebook. When those occasions arise, it is the responsibility of the head judge to make a determination as to whether the incident in question abides by the "spirit" of dB Drag Racing competition. As a competitor, it is your responsibility to understand the rules contained in this book and to abide by any decisions rendered by the head judge.
posted
Would the idea of no visible sound deadener be to keep people from covering the outside of the dash, door panels, headliner and placing over carpet. If this is the intent then a competitor that has a small piece extending out from under the running board would obviously not be trying to circumvent this instructions intent.
-------------------- Dream, Plan, Build
T3 Audio really does make the best subwoofers, we just want to let the world know it.
posted
Tor just because you CAN make up rules according to the rule book doesn't mean you should...if you keep at ityou won't have any competitors left to enforce these made up rules upon
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3172 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
oh and how exactly does visible sound deadener go against the "spirit" of any rule? Please post the rule whose spirit is being broken by this ruling...oh wait I guess the only spirit being broken is that of loyal competitors lol
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3172 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Seem's like a lot of people have a common issue and common problem....not a what if or it only affects me. So souldn't the rules be updated to reflect these ruleings ? A lot of peopel are haveing issues with other rules that arn't clear....so souldn't this be cleared up, it's NOT 1 person any more that have a uncommon install. Every one know's what car's do what and the rules should be written to refrence these car's.
quote:Originally posted by Tor S Aamodt: I guess you guys forget about this, its in the rulebook
The dB Drag Racing Association (dBDRA) has gone to great lengths to insure that the rules for competing in dB Drag Racing are as comprehensive and unambiguous as possible. Even so, there will invariably be times when a particular application or installation will fall outside the scope of this rulebook. When those occasions arise, it is the responsibility of the head judge to make a determination as to whether the incident in question abides by the "spirit" of dB Drag Racing competition. As a competitor, it is your responsibility to understand the rules contained in this book and to abide by any decisions rendered by the head judge.
I read this as "We do whatever the hell we want. Deal with it."
So its the competitors choice to play in their King of the Castle world or not.
-------------------- Team FatStig Cause I just gotta be me. Posts: 1929 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I agree with AudioXtremes interpretation of the quote!!! The quote from the rule book is just worded in legal jargon!!!
-------------------- Team Digital Designs Team Cactus 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 2nd Place Street A 155.4dB Posts: 423 | From: Clinton, MD | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I thought I mad a post earlier, must not have hit the button....
Tom: Tor did not pick a random point for the window line, they figured out the height, and it happened to be at the same height as the little hook in the interior. He is INSTRUCTING competitors as to how to do a string test in a particular vehicle.
As far as the sound deadener goes, we all know it is made to stop panels from vibrating, period. If its not behind something, then its not stopping the vibration. /story
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 9093 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
it doesn't matter which side of the panel the deadener is on...if its on the front or the rear of the panel it will deaden vibrations the same way
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2008 Spring Break Nationals Street B Champion 153.2dB 2008 dBDrag North American Finals 3rd Place Street A 155.0dB
A user of many brands of gear whose name cannot be said Posts: 3172 | From: Canada | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
And if you put it on the outside it will look like crap. What db drag is trying to accomplish is making vehicles look a little better, and more like a consumer vehicle, so that new competitors won't be discouraged.
If I came to a show, wanting to compete, and saw that all of the top competitors cars had dynamat all over the interior, I would find something else to do.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 9093 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by lmanosteel875: Would the idea of no visible sound deadener be to keep people from covering the outside of the dash, door panels, headliner and placing over carpet.
Exactly. And thats also why you cant have ANY visible damping - if you allow a little, competitors will try to get away with using more and more and more.....
Just like the stupid issue with 100 screws in doorpanels. I bet if we have DQ'ed a car for having used 10 screws to secure a doorpanel, we would have seen a post like this with someone bitching about judges making up rules. Now that we didnt, we have post where someone is bitching about us letting competitors get away with pushing the rules.
-------------------- - Lawaetz - www.lydtryk.dk Bass Race & dB Drag Racing Denmark
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