A few questions have raised recently that I feel need to be addressed.
Q. What is a trunk? A. A trunck is the seperate storage area in the rear of the vehicle. It is completely isolated from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. The storage area in a hatchback is NOT the trunck. An example of a vehicle with a trunck is a BMW740.
Q. Can I remove my rear seat from the vehicle in the Street Division? A. Only if the seat was intended to be removed as a NORMAL part of the vehicle's operation. Keep in mind that ALL seats are removable. Some are made to be removed to increase cargo space and some are removable for maintenance.
Examples: If you must remove bolts or screws in order to remove the seat, then the seat is NOT intended to be removed as a normal part of operation.
If the seat has latches (with levers), and the vehicle's owner's manual indicates that the seat may be removed, then the seat was DESIGNED to be removed as a normal part of vehicle operation.
If the seat is spring-spring loaded, and "clips" in to a slot in the sheet metal of the vehicle, then the seat is probably NOT designed to be removed unless the owner's manual says that it can be removed to increase cargo space.
I believe that the rule book is very clear with regards to these restrictions. In addition, this is how I will be enforcing the rules at the Euro Finals. Therefore, you should make your competitors aware that this is how things will be done.
Please let me know if you have further questions.
Wayne Harris President - dBDRA
-------------------- Tor Aamodt
*Head Judge at World finals 2004, 2006 and 2007 *Judge at World finals 2002 - 2003 *Norwegian dB Drag Racing Association. (NdBDRA) *Certified multi point judge.
quote:Originally posted by jarfunkz: there are no back seats i am aware of for crx's...
over here in Switzerland there are no CRX with out back seats, from old to new all have them in..
-------------------- Cactus Sounds 4 x World Champ 3 x Euro Champ 4 X Swiss Champ 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 6256 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jarfunkz: there are no back seats i am aware of for crx's...
Some if not all of the european versions have a backseat. It's more like a shelf and a plastic back with seat-belts though.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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-07 The year off, only six 12" in a daily driven VW Vento/Jetta. -08 Student, selling everything! Posts: 1104 | From: Kalmar SWEDEN | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I agree with Jimmy Anderson, street cars without back seats should be moved into Super Street (next year).
These cars are supposed to be stock, in my opinion they have back seats.
Another thing there is a lot of hearsay going on about this person says this & that. Well the bottom line is if its not in Black and white its not a ruling.
-------------------- dB Drags South Africa. Posts: 152 | From: Johannesburg - South Africa | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Kim: This is a Crx with backseat:
This is the car:
The CRX's in the USA DO NOT have the same interior as the picture shown. There is no rear seat in a crx here in the USA. No seat belts, no padding. Where the seat would go is a storage place that hinges up.
If there was a CRX here in the USA that was like the ones in Europe that came with a seat IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to remove it.
At one show there could be a USA crx w/o back seat and next to it a Europe crx w/ back seat.
This is how Panda's should be treated in Europe. It is a judges responsibility to varify vehicles and be familiar with them.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8445 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by bikemike: Another thing there is a lot of hearsay going on about this person says this & that. Well the bottom line is if its not in Black and white its not a ruling.
There is no need for a ruling, it's already in black and white. The rules say if the car comes with a consumer removable backseat, it can be taken out. If they don't have a consumer removable backseat, they must stay in. I don't see how there is any confusion.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Richard.O: Okey what is this for kind of car and is there no sign of a backseat?? This is the winner in street 3-4 2002 in worldfinals...
That's the american Honda CRX. It has no backseat from the factory.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny:
quote:Originally posted by Richard.O: Okey what is this for kind of car and is there no sign of a backseat?? This is the winner in street 3-4 2002 in worldfinals...
That's the american Honda CRX. It has no backseat from the factory.
Actually if you look at the picture you see how the interior is an part of the back seat, and if a part of the backseat is still in the car i would say the car i BUILT/DESIGNED to have an back seat installed from factory, and if the cars are sold in the States without a back seat they are MODIFIED for that market. If judges in US approve modified cars for US comps the same modified car SHOULD be allowed all over the world also would OTHER models be able to be overlooked to pass this rule. If not NO one will take the Rules seriusly.
[ 09-24-2003, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: naughty Tee ]
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny:
quote:Originally posted by Richard.O: Okey what is this for kind of car and is there no sign of a backseat?? This is the winner in street 3-4 2002 in worldfinals...
That's the american Honda CRX. It has no backseat from the factory.
Actually if you look at the picture you see how the interior is an part of the back seat, and if a part of the backseat is still in the car i would say the car i BUILT/DESIGNED to have an back seat installed from factory, and if the cars are sold in the States without a back seat they are MODIFIED for that market. If judges in US approve modified cars for US comps the same modified car SHOULD be allowed all over the world also would OTHER models be able to be overlooked to pass this rule. If not NO one will take the Rules seriusly.
You make no sense. The car has no backseat in the US. In my opinion it was modified in your market by putting a backseat in it. But you know what? If you have a crx overseas, and it came with a backseat, you have to leave it in. Our cars didn't come with one, what do you want us to do? Import one from overseas?
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I have no experience with CRX's. But I think they see the little thing in the side as part of the seat. Look from the pictures above where there is a seat, it kinda continues to the side and that side thing is there also in your US model. So it just can look like the seat could be part of the CRX interior originally everywhere, but for some markets it is taken out and sold as 2-seater.
I understand this "frustration" with those Hondas much better, as it seems to be very similar with the models having the backseats and models coming without it.
With Pandas it is not the same, the whole seat is TOTALLY different in the models with removable and models with non-removable.
Though, none of these things changes the rule anywhere, but it just feels bad and unfair for some.
Well, perhaps we can make some minor changes to Street division when the rules talk for 2004 begins. Americans might think different, but it looks like many people over here would like to separate the cars with backseats and cars without backseats in a way they don't compete against each other.
Posts: 575 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jani U: Well, perhaps we can make some minor changes to Street division when the rules talk for 2004 begins. Americans might think different, but it looks like many people over here would like to separate the cars with backseats and cars without backseats in a way they don't compete against each other.
I think it would be a good idea, but I don't see it happening. It's not really practical for competition. If wayne makes a concession to separate cars with backseats and cars without. Next thing you know people will want a seperate class for "trunk" cars and vans and trucks.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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They had no backseat -- ever. The trim panels that curve inward (near the rearmost woofers) are there for a reason. To "separate" and protect the driver from the cargo area, there was a vertical and horizontal trim panel in there that made the CRX effectively have a "trunk" in the back. I would assume that n the European models, the front of this "trunk" is where the backseat is. In the American owners manual it describes how to remove those panels to gain more cargo space. The panels require no tools to remove and were designed to be removed by the consumer.
Here's a picture of those panels in place:
Here's the panel open to access the "trunk"
I personally think those panels should have to remain in place but they have been legal to remove for a very long time. Just trying to pass on some information.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
In euporean panels we have also safetybelts. So same car in europe is 2+2 and in USA it is 2-seater.
Can we (rest of the world) make usa-version of crx ?. Just remove the panel and officially change 2+2 to be a 2-seater...
Well we dont need to, we have Pandas
-jtl
-------------------- Jarkko Leppänen, FdBDRA Ry www.fdbdra.com, dB Drag in Finland Posts: 83 | From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by jtl: Here we can see european panels
and same here..
and "panel" up
In euporean panels we have also safetybelts. So same car in europe is 2+2 and in USA it is 2-seater.
Can we (rest of the world) make usa-version of crx ?. Just remove the panel and officially change 2+2 to be a 2-seater...
Well we dont need to, we have Pandas
-jtl
Nope, you have to leave the panels in.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8012 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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