posted
I closed the Bronco Content discussion. Chris has consented to continue in a new post. So if you have questions or comments, feel free to join us.
------------------ Alma Gates
Posts: 3134 | From: phoenix, arizona - usa | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by mongerson: How can the cone shred due to the voice coil? Plug a 5" speaker into a wall socket and see what the coil does to the cone when it moves to far in one direction. How can the enclosure change the integrity of the cone? It cant. Impossible. But, if I fold/crease/shred a woofers cone is it: A)the woofers fault B) the enclosures fault C) my fault for overdriving a perfectly good woofer in the wrong enclosure. When in doubt always bet on C.
What is the L7s sealed resonance in an optimumly tuned enclosure? Lost me here. Do you mean recomended enclosure volume? Will sealed resonance make customers think its beating harder or sounding better? I really dont have a good answer for this one.
What is the broncos resonance? I'd forward this one to Scott Owens. I would think it will change with the new install.
Chris Nelson carbuyer@stereowest.com
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Here's some specs from the owners manual: 8" Fs 43.5 (Hz) Vas .46 (cu.ft.) Qts .551 Xmax .41 (in.)
10" Fs 35.1 Vas 1.2 Qts .410 Xmax .5
12" Fs 29.7 Vas 3.1 Qts .419 Xmax .5
15" Fs 23.0 Vas 9.9 Qts .477 Xmax .60
I would imagine that a bone stock car would have a much different resonant freq. than the same car with major mods. Any major modifications to a vehicles interior changes the resonant frequency. Add a couple hundred pounds of MDF, kitty hair, bondo and plaxi glass - reduce the cabin area - things will change. Just a hunch......
Chris Nelson
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I have to let everyone know that I'm not an installer and I dont have a lot of background in speaker mechanics or enclosure design. What does that figure have to do with the performance/enclosure design?
Chris Nelson
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Ya that is extremely large especially in referance to an SPL application! Also if the .6 (i assume inch) XMAX measurement is only peak to peak, i would seriously reconsider the use of the L7s. I just recieved an email from kickers technical staff reguarding my inquiry about the complete T/S parameters, and they said to give them my fax # so they could get back to me, but i have no fax so i told them to send through email asap...
------------------ Cerwin Vega / Legacy / Sony / Infinity
posted
A little birdie once told me that he never paid much attention to T/S parameters when designing and building a pressure system. I think theres more to it than specs.
Chris Nelson
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
A pressure system is based on the specifications of the transducer which in this case would be the L7s. I wouldnt reconsider the parameters of digital designs because they have generally better specs. Also i think you have the decimal in the wrong place in the VAS i believe it is 7.5 cu ft. I dont listen to birds i listen to physics, acoustics, and science.
------------------ Cerwin Vega / Legacy / Sony / Infinity
posted
The decimal is not in the wrong place. www.ddaudio.com click on 9515 My birdie does 169+ with 6 woofers -legal.
Tell me again how Vas relates to a speakers performance? Since you seem to know more about these numbers than I do, tell me how a difference in one or more of those numbers (Vas for example) makes one woofer a better pressure "transducer". Maybe you could tell me spec-by-spec why a DD woofer is "generally better". Take your time.
Chris Nelson
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
You didnt start anything. Another post regarding the L7 woofers pegged my B.S. meter. I'm not an expert on box design or speaker mechanics, but I can tell when someone is tripping over big words and techno-bable. In this case it just involved a new product that hasnt even had time to be fairly evaluated. Nothing personal toward anyone - I'm just trying to "call their hand" so to speak.
Chris Nelson
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Posts: 122 | From: Omaha, Ne. | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Yes i checked the site and your absolutly correct. I apologize for the misconception on my part. 169 for 6 woofers is an excellent score if it is legal. Im sure that if you are capable of utilizing an SPL system that can hit 169 dB you understand the T/S parameters better than i do, but i do what i can.
As far as the comparison of the DDs and the L7s goes, i do strongly believe the DD is capable of reaching a higher decibal level than the L7. SPL (im sure as you know) is mainly derived from two factors (on speaker terms). The first factor is cone area. The L7 has a nudge over the DD in this catagory. Also the acoustic coupling capability is better on the L7. However, with the other factor (XMAX), the DD has the advantage with a 52 .mm peak to peak excursion. The L7 only has a .6" excursion which is equivelent to just above 12.7 mm which is a half inch. I am not sure whether this specification is recorded linearly or peak to peak so i cant fully evaluate it, however i can say that in the SPL catagory the DD is generally better (especially understanding your success with the driver).
I also understand that to maintain a high SPL there are a lot of factors that come into play. When i compared the two drivers, i disregaurded the vehicle that these subs would be placed in.
Vas is the equivalent volume of air having the same compliance as the suspension system of the driver. The initials stand for Volume Acoustic Suspension. An acoustic suspension is commonly understood as a sealed enclosure.
I meant to start nothing... This post has your name on it not mine you should be answering the questions. I know for a fact that there are many other people on this forum that are more intellegent than i am.
------------------ Cerwin Vega / Legacy / Sony / Infinity
I invited Chris to discuss the L7 and what ever questions the site users may have. When you reach the db level that we have obtained, you will find many things effect the performance of the equipment. We have gone where very few db competitors have ever gone and many of the things we think will work - do not. I think most of the competitors who do real spl will tell you the same thing. A lot of our success has been trial and error. There is physics involved - big time - but you really cannot say one woofer will do better than another without trying both in the same situation at this level. If you remember - back in 1996 - a report was published stating that the PPI Pro series would never be anything by a sq woofer. Regardless of any opinion - that L7 is going to be a good spl woofer.
Thanks for being in here. I appreciate your input.
------------------ Alma Gates
Posts: 3134 | From: phoenix, arizona - usa | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Neon Boy: Personally, I'd listen to Chris's birdies
Kyle, I sort of like those little birdies also. Amazing what they can tell us, especially the ones that Chris listens to. I understand he has some very good sq birdies also! lol
------------------ Alma Gates
Posts: 3134 | From: phoenix, arizona - usa | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by supersube: By little birdies, Chris really means really little birdies, reall short little birdies.
funny - I am sure those short little birdies tell Chris exactly what we have found out - - things look great on paper - but when the application is put into effect -you find many unknown variables in a car that must be taken into consideration. After awhile, it becomes brute force and ignorance! But it sure is fun and exciting.
------------------ Alma Gates
Posts: 3134 | From: phoenix, arizona - usa | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I find car audio fun and exciting at all times because new variables are constantly incorperated to make the on going process more difficult. I understand what your saying about how things are different in the car than when they are on paper, however if you dont at least base what you do in the car on paper, then i dont see how you could be successful. What makes you so assured that the L7s will do the job?
------------------ Cerwin Vega / Legacy / Sony / Infinity
posted
"if you dont at least base what you do in the car on paper, then i dont see how you could be successful. What makes you so assured that the L7s will do the job?" --Mongerson
Hey Mongerson if I read that right you are questioning Alma Gates ability to be successful....please just know your role and step down. Oh and in response to your last question, it will be answered the minute that a new record high measurement is taken at the finals...jease not to be mean or anything, but look who you are talking to, if there is one thing that you can say about her it is expierience, something that you and I both lack....
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Posts: 1 | From: WA | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I just wanted to throw my two cents in here. I do not believe anyone can be 100% certain about any one product. By this I mean, If some manufacturer could guarantee a competitor to scores of...(in a stock interior)170db with four of thier woofers, 175db with six of thier woofers, and 180db with twelve of their woofers or your money back. Wouldn't everyone rush out to get these woofers? And if they did why would you need/want to compete anymore if you are going to do the same score as the next person who has the same setup as yours. The products has some play in determining the final results, but construction has even more play in it. The "best" speaker, in a bad design, would be equal to a "Bad" speaker in the best design. You get "out" of a system, what you put "into" it. This is only MY views. Good Luck and God Bless.
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