posted
Any of you street guys want to help me with the box design for my car I'd greatly be appreciative of it. I'm building the car for NSPL Car 1801-3600 watts. The box I have in the car now is a daily box that got pretty loud. The car is a 2001 Focus ZX3 and the resonant frequency is 51hz. It has a sunroof, so that is definately not helping me. There is some deadener in the doors, hatch, and hatch floor including spare tire well.
I'm getting ready to move the batteries to the spare tire well to free up some room. Here is the equiptment I'm working with as well as my current high score.
SPL: 151.2 in competition off of 3400 watts, 151.7 in testing with the same power both at 43hz
As you guys can see my daily box is peaking 8hz below where my car peaks no doubt hurting the spl. I'm looking for a new box design to get the car up over the 152.5 or better range. With the 2 15's and a maximum of 3600 watts I don't see why it shouldn't be possible. The best way I've found my car to work so far is with the woofers firing back towards the hatch and the ports firing up towards the roof. It sounds weird but was the loudest way.
I have as many 4" aeroports as it takes to work with and have a total of 12 if need be. I was thinking more along the lines of 6 ports with the subs in about 6 or so cubes. I'm going to test with a single 12 in a 1 cube enclosure to make sure the resonant frequency didn't change and then I'm also going to test which way the sub and port firing is the loudest. It may change when I do the 2 15's a little bit, but I would guess for the most part that it should be the best which ever way it is with the 12.
So far I've tried firing the subs up and port back, subs up and port up, subs foward and port back, and also how it is now with subs back and port up.
Please feel free to pm me any info if you want or put it up in this topic too. I just need anymore information that I can get at this time since I've never really built a spl box. Some of my team members have and I'm going to discuss this with them as well. Thanks in advance to any of you that decide to help. I'm looking to really do that 153 off of 3600 watts and it can be done I'm sure.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Potentially be louder with just one 15. Could do a box that is 3cf for a single 15 with a single 8" aeroport. Sub up or forward and port to side. Or if you want to stick with the two 15's then 5-6cf but with a 10" aeroports. Probably subs and port up with the port in the middle. You have some options.
Posts: 1770 | From: elgin | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Hmm... subs up and port up hasn't seemed to work very well in my car in the past for some reason. However, I didn't have the port in the middle of the box. The port for that setup was on the passenger side of the car and was then switched to the driver's side and there wasn't a gain in spl by doing so. With the same exact subs and amp I switched to the subs up and did the ports back and gained 1.4db by doing so. I will also add that with my current box when it was subs up and port back I gained 1.8db by switching it to subs back and ports up.
I also already have all the 4" aeros that I need and I would prefer to use those for the box. The Focus doesn't seem to be like most other cars when it comes to spl. Things that should work, don't. That is why I'm asking for help with the car. It has myself and my team members a little stumped since we've tried quite a few things and what should work isn't and those things that don't make any sense are the things that are working best. For example, have you ever seen a car be the loudest by firing the subs to the rear exactly 6" away from the hatch and the ports up at the roof approximately 12.25" away? I have never seen that in a car nor did I imagine that it would work so well but it has. I've already tried the crx style box with the subs foward and port to the rear. The box was 5.8 net and around 5.1-5.2 after port and woofer displacement. It was 1.3db quieter than the box that I have now.
I've also kicked around the idea of a single 15 too, but the limited amount of power is making me think that maybe 2 will be louder off of the 3600 watts that I'm allowed to use. If I were to do a single I'd plan on 3 cubes and start out with 3 4" aeros to see where that puts me. I could always add a 4th one or even build my own port to try as well. I've had more success with adding more 4" ports than using a single large port as well and makes me kind of want to stay with multiple smaller ports.
Thanks for the help so far. I think that I'm going to attempt two and if I have enough wood left over I may try a single sub. For some reason my instincts are telling me that woofer up and port external to the driver's side might be the loudest way in the car. I haven't tried or tested it at all, but it is on the list of things to do.
I also notice some wandering eyes from another team member's captain checking in on my thread. Trying to get some info to use against me? Is my car that interesting to you?
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Nightshade: I also notice some wandering eyes from another team member's captain checking in on my thread. Trying to get some info to use against me? Is my car that interesting to you?
I see it too. Many of us browse TermPro regularly.
quote:Originally posted by Nightshade: I also notice some wandering eyes from another team member's captain checking in on my thread. Trying to get some info to use against me? Is my car that interesting to you?
I see it too. Many of us browse TermPro regularly.
I'm not saying that you guys don't check out the site. I just think it's funny that your team captain who dislikes me is in my thread reading it. I think he's interested in what I'm doing no matter if he will admit it or not. I don't have anything to hide at all. I'll gladly tell you guys anything that you want to know about my car.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Like I said I'm going to use a single woofer in a test box with every port and woofer firing direction that is possible and then I will record the scores that each combination does. Which ever combination is loudest in testing is probably the one that I'll use in my larger scale with 2 subs. Do you guys think that the results will change that much when I go to 2 woofers over a single, or should the same port direction as well as woofer direction be loud the way it is in testing? I'm just wondering that maybe what will work for testing might not work as well for the final setup.
Also what Jeff suggested for 2 15's won't work with the subs up and the huge port in the middle. I only have a max of 35 1/2" wide once I move my batteries to the spare tire well so that idea is out. I'm seriously thinking that like Ryan said either woofers back and ports to the drivers side or woofers up and ports to the drivers side is going to be the loudest for some reason. It's one of the only ways that I haven't tested yet and my luck seems to be that the last thing that I do works. I also have a notion to try woofers foward and port up to see what it's capable of as well.
Thanks for the responses so far, keep the suggestions coming.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Here are a few pics of the current setup for you all to examine and help me determine what to do.
The only thing that is different than in the pictures is at the top of the box I cut a 45 degree angle all the way across the box to help get some distance away from the back windows. In testing this actually helped the score go up, but for some reason at the last show I went to it didn't add anything. I also bondoed and resined the spot where I cut the 45 at. Any idea's?????
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Hey Zach, have you tried moving your batteries and centering your box? That way you would get more air flow around the box instead of just on the driver's side. Always seem to help me.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by CookieMonster: Hey Zach, have you tried moving your batteries and centering your box? That way you would get more air flow around the box instead of just on the driver's side. Always seem to help me.
Walt, I'm getting ready to move the batts to the spare tire well. I'm waiting right now for some more 0 guage, a distrobution block, and some more ring terminals from Darvex. I've had the idea to do so for awhile, but I've put it off until now.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
In the Jeep doubling up the loudest box doesn't work for me -- I think primarily since the frequency refuses to be correct due to different loading of the larger enclosure.
One thing that did work for me, oddly, is subs forward and ports up... I did the same score with the single sub box that way. Have you ever tried that in the Focus ?
-------------------- - Jacob Fuller Posts: 990 | From: Mooresville, NC | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by sundownz: In the Jeep doubling up the loudest box doesn't work for me -- I think primarily since the frequency refuses to be correct due to different loading of the larger enclosure.
One thing that did work for me, oddly, is subs forward and ports up... I did the same score with the single sub box that way. Have you ever tried that in the Focus ?
It's on the list of things to try even before I build a test box to see which port/sub firing direction is loudest. I'm just waiting until I can get to a meter to try it out. I'd be willing to bet that the way my car is working it will, and it should also help bring the frequency up a note or two which should help out too. I could do it right now, but the only way I'll have to determine if it's louder or not is by ear and I don't feel safe with the old earometer. It may be a little while before I can get the time to travel to where a meter is anyway since I'm moving right now and all the meter's that I can use are a little over an hour away. I work 6 days this week so it's probably out and Sunday I'm moving all of my large furnature into my new house. Actually I may have time to even make a trip down to your shop on Wednesday Jacob. I have to work at 5:30 that night, but if I were to leave early enough I could come and flip the box around while I'm there. We could first get a score the way the box is now and then flip it and see what it does.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
i wouldnt even bother with 4" aeros. or even 6" aeros for that matter. Go straight for an 8" and id even build a 10" but I think 8" will be louder because you'll need too much port depth with the 10" and your low res freq.
do you have more width left to right or depth front to back? Knowing that will give you an idea of which way to try firing your port. The more space you have, the longer your port can be or the more port area you can use. This theory worked in my explorer, side firing solo Xs was louder than rear firing 9912s..allbeit there were many other factors involved aswell.
Good luck
-------------------- Dustin Page 97 explorer (TOTALLED) 155.8 Team Deaftraps
81 malibu wagon 160+ bassracer--debuting spring 2010
DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH H&K KENT. HE RIPPED ME OFF FOR OVER $2000. STAY AWAY! Posts: 1126 | From: abbotsford, bc, canada | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
For now I'm kinda thinking of going with a single 15 and maybe even making my own large port. The only problem is my router broke over a year ago and I'd have to go and buy one if I wanted to make my own port like Terry's in his crx.
I am shooting for getting a pair of 12's before NSPL finals this year so hopefully it works out to do so. I also have more room as far as width then I do with depth.
Also my frequency of my car is 51hz so I don't think that I'll need that much depth even on a 10" port to get it to work.
I've still always had excellent results with 4" ports in my car. I just think that I'm going to reach a limitation some time because you can only get so loud off of 3600 watts. When I get everything done and tuned with the single 15 box I'm looking to do at least a 153, and if I were to get a pair of 12's I'd hope to get to around a 154 but any more than that is kind of hard to believe.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
get someone with a CNC to mill out 20-30 mdf rings for you.
Posts: 5494 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by D-Bass: get someone with a CNC to mill out 20-30 mdf rings for you.
or cnc the whole aero flare out of a solid piece of plastic
-------------------- Dustin Page 97 explorer (TOTALLED) 155.8 Team Deaftraps
81 malibu wagon 160+ bassracer--debuting spring 2010
DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH H&K KENT. HE RIPPED ME OFF FOR OVER $2000. STAY AWAY! Posts: 1126 | From: abbotsford, bc, canada | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Probably a single 15" will work better. Our best result in this car was a 152.4 @ 49 Hz with a single DD 9512 (paper cone, DVC 2 Ohm) with two DD M3's, still not having more then 3Kw on the sub because of impedance rise. Also less batery power. Sub firing forward, ports to the back, dual 6" external aeroports.
Please PM if you need more info and picks. The car is still under construction and similar with yours.
-------------------- Just cruisin'... Posts: 23 | From: Romania (EU) | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by SoundCustoms: Probably a single 15" will work better. Our best result in this car was a 152.4 @ 49 Hz with a single DD 9512 (paper cone, DVC 2 Ohm) with two DD M3's, still not having more then 3Kw on the sub because of impedance rise. Also less batery power. Sub firing forward, ports to the back, dual 6" external aeroports.
Please PM if you need more info and picks. The car is still under construction and similar with yours.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have two new boxes in the works for the car to see what will work the best. One is still a dual 15 box but is much smaller internal airspace than the daily box that is in the car now. It is 5.3 or so cubes with 6 4" aeroports that I had laying around that I decided to try to see what it did. I did the whole sub foward port back thing in the car and it wasn't as loud as the sub back port up enclosure that I have now. Have you tried subs back and port up at all? You should if you haven't and let me know how it works for you.
I also have another box that I'm getting ready to try out that is 3 cubes with a single 8" flared port. It is for a single 15 and is one that I think will work out very well. I'm also getting ready to switch to larger amps this week even though I have a power limit. I figure that with more power on tap that the signal will be cleaner and should be louder than the amps that I have in the car right now.
Also even after rise I find it hard to believe that the M3's weren't making more than 3000 watts. They will do their rated power of 2400 watts at 1 ohm all day long and I don't see how you were only getting 3000 out of a pair of them when I'm getting 3500 out of a pair of Sundown 1500d's with each seeing an impedence of 1.7 ohms after rise.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Nightshade... If you are getting 3500W + measured with peak hold on your multimeters then yes, this way we also had more then 3000W. The impedance rise for our box is still big, but again, there is still no rounding inside and no fine tuning of the port. Also, you need cables and battery power to get the amp make some real power, right? All will come, our Focus is still under construction. So far we only used 2 medium sized batteries (one in the front) conected by one fused 0 AWG run. Not the ideal setup to feed two M3's.
In the next month the car may be ready and then I can give you some final measurements. Ofcourse we will see more power out of the M3's. And then we will test a Z2LV to see the difference.
We tried all available positions. The loudest after this one was sub to back, ports fire into the drivers side. This way we can set up the car for Street A and do almost 151.
-------------------- Just cruisin'... Posts: 23 | From: Romania (EU) | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by SoundCustoms: Nightshade... If you are getting 3500W + measured with peak hold on your multimeters then yes, this way we also had more then 3000W. The impedance rise for our box is still big, but again, there is still no rounding inside and no fine tuning of the port. Also, you need cables and battery power to get the amp make some real power, right? All will come, our Focus is still under construction. So far we only used 2 medium sized batteries (one in the front) conected by one fused 0 AWG run. Not the ideal setup to feed two M3's.
In the next month the car may be ready and then I can give you some final measurements. Ofcourse we will see more power out of the M3's. And then we will test a Z2LV to see the difference.
We tried all available positions. The loudest after this one was sub to back, ports fire into the drivers side. This way we can set up the car for Street A and do almost 151.
The 3500 watts is not peak hold, it's measured using true rms meters. I have a bit more battery power than you do in your car right now. My batteries are a single Deka Intimidator G34 up front and 2 XS Power D3100's in the spare tire well. This power has been measured by using several Fluke rms meters because I thought that there would be no way that my amps could make that type of power under the load they're at. They are resting at .5 ohms each and the reactive is 1.7 and I am still making 1750 out of each.
Like I said before this current box is a daily driving box that is tuned to 37hz and is peaking at 43hz which you and I both know that is no where near the resonant frequency of the car. That's why I was asking for some help before I went out and built a few boxes for spl. It's funny that you say that woofer back and port to the driver's side was the loudest setup for you because my single 15 box with the 8" flared port is setup exactly like that. My dual 15 box is still the same concept as my daily box, but is much smaller so it incorporates much more port area per cubic foot than I have in the daily box.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
How are the meters set up to measure wattage? Are they set to peak hold and the measurment is taken the second you start the burp or does someone physically press hold at some point during the burp? If so, when? 1,2,3 seconds into the burp? True RMS meters have peak/hold functions.
Posts: 503 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
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