posted
Has anyone ever used this car for a spl install? I have one myself and I'm doing some decent numbers out of it with very little power. I just want to talk to some other ZX3 owners and see if there is anything that I'm missing in the car that could possibly net me a gain in spl. I would be glad to help whoever out too.
My best score to date in competition is a 151.2 but it has been much higher in testing. I just can't seem to get it to do the number at a show just yet.
The equiptment I'm using is as follows: Subs- 2 Sundown Audio Nightshade 15's Amps- 2 Sundown Audio saz1500d's Batts- 2 XS Power D3100's, 1 Deka Intimidator G34 Power is 3400 watts clamped and I can only have a maximum of 3600 watts to stay in the class for NSPL.
I'm not worried about competing in Db Drag at all cause I would be in SS 1-2 cause my box is over the window line. I know that I could just add power and easily see over a 154, but I'm trying to do it with as little as possible.
The frequency I'm burping at now is 43hz and is very low for this car. I've found that my resonant freq is 51hz. I know if I were to bring the tuning up I could definately achieve more spl, but the higher the freq the more power I make. See my dilema here?
If anyone has any tips or info that can help I would be grateful if you could share it with me. Thanks in advance.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nice job Zach. Do you charge at shows? What about in car temperatures? Are they the same in testing as they are at shows?
Posts: 503 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Eric. I do charge at shows, but the charger that I use doesn't seem to be a good one for my batts. It actually keeps charging them up to 17 volts if I leave it on. I have done this a few times and you can hear the batt sizzling inside. I know that is not good at all, and I don't plan on letting it ever happen again. I need to get a charger that will actually charge the batts to 15 volts or so and hold for a good 30 min to an hour.
The temperatures have varied some and may have a bit to do with it. The best score out of the car has come in 65-70 degree weather with fairly high humidity. The score was only down .1 dbs when the temperature was 91 degrees and the humidity was 98%.
I'm pretty sure that the reason I'm seeing higher scores in testing is because I'm making more power then. I can't turn it all the way up because I will go over my power limit. I'm looking for any tips to increase the spl without adding any power at all.
I have some limitataions like the box has to be in the cargo area of the car, only one extra run of 0 guage per battery, the box must be at least 12" from the roof, for my class 3600 watts clamped is the maximum amount of power.
I tried out some deadener and lost spl. After I took it out my score went back up. I know that deadener if done right will increase my score. I just need to figure out a better approach to doing so. I have some more deadener that is in the car that I'm going to try and take out. It's been in there since I lived in Ohio and I never really got a chance to test to see if it helped or hurt my score. Who knows I may take it out and see an increase in score.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
I'm sure you have tried all the basics, but I would tweak the freq vs. power some. Try to get your tuning up closer to the peak without going over your power class max.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
posted
you're getting more power at higher frequency? I figure if you're burping with peak output at 43Hz, you gotta be tuned in the mid-upper 30's. I'd figure by the time you got the peak up to 50Hz, you should be more efficient and get a higher score with less power.
Posts: 5494 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by D-Bass: you're getting more power at higher frequency? I figure if you're burping with peak output at 43Hz, you gotta be tuned in the mid-upper 30's. I'd figure by the time you got the peak up to 50Hz, you should be more efficient and get a higher score with less power.
Your right about the tuning of my box. It is tuned to 37hz and was ment for daily until it got really loud that way. I have a new design in the works with my team Captain Mr. Sears, and we're going with more port area to bring the freq up some. I'm just afraid by bringing the freq up too much I will make too much power.
When I had the 12's in my car they peaked right at the resonant freq of the car and each amp made 2000+ watts. Now that I have the 15's and am peaking at 43 each amp is only making a little more than 1700 watts. I've tested this with the new box and when the subs reach 47 hz I make too much power for the class. It may not be the same case if I redo the box with it actually tuned higher. I see what your saying about turning the volume down and still being louder than what I am at a lower freq.
I will have test results from the new box soon and I'll let you know how that goes.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
smaller volume and stronger build should bring the impedance rise up to limit power
Posts: 5494 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
y couan try to build the box to match the peak of the car to get the most spl then go down on the volume till it is under 3600 watts!! have you tested to see what volume will take you 3599watts? and if I am not mistaken dont fred give the competitors about a 10% leway on the ratting? wich means that you have an extra 360 watts to play with?
-------------------- TEAM DB UNIT (Master Yoda) 2006 Competition Only Hardcore Points Champion 2006 Competition Only Trunk Stock Points Champion 2007 Competition Only Trunk Stock Points Champion 2008 Competition Only Overall Points Champion http://www.competitiononly.com/ Authorized Second Skin Dealer www.secondskinaudio.com [IMG]
quote:Originally posted by D-Bass: smaller volume and stronger build should bring the impedance rise up to limit power
True on the smaller box bringing the rise up. I didn't take that into consideration. So the fact that I'm planning on raising the tuning which will make more power will be counteracted by a smaller box that should help make some less power in the long run.
Also you aren't allowed to go over the power for the class even by 1 watt or you are moved into the higher class like Derrick said. The 10% thing was being talked about at the begining of the season but isn't a rule.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tekk45: Did the sound deadener lower the note?
Actually the deadener didn't change the note at all. I've found a few things that will, but the only direction that it seems to be going is lower. After some testing today I've seen some gains and hope that it carries over into competition. I didn't charge the car at all and am up from any of my previous testing. The car was sitting at 13.8 volts and is very very low for my car. It is usually at 14.6-15.2 volts when I burp any other time. I'm sure it was because the batts and the alt were very hot today after quite a bit of testing.
On another note I was able to do 5 consecutive 149.9 runs. The only real problem with that is that I need to find the perfect starting volume because in 2 out of the 5 I started with well over a 150 and then had to back off of it to do the 149.9 (which I was able to do on all the runs except one where I started a little too late.)
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Could you possibly find the volume where your head unit clips and turn it down one click, then set your amplifier gain to get 3599(or close to) watts? Checking to make sure that the amp itself isn't clipping.
Posts: 503 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Have you made a smaller box to amplify the higher frequencies? If you try to play higher frequencies with your current box you'll make more power because you're not playing the frequency of what the box is tuned to. But if you make a smaller box and tune the port correctly you should have about the same power but with the higher frequency.
But I bet that your current box is being tuned that low is one hell of a street beater.
Also do you use slot port or aeroport?
Posts: 1770 | From: elgin | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dtbrown: Have you made a smaller box to amplify the higher frequencies? If you try to play higher frequencies with your current box you'll make more power because you're not playing the frequency of what the box is tuned to. But if you make a smaller box and tune the port correctly you should have about the same power but with the higher frequency.
But I bet that your current box is being tuned that low is one hell of a street beater.
Also do you use slot port or aeroport?
Jeff, you are right about the car being a streetbeater. It plays music at over 151db and easily bassraces in the 149.9 class.
I'm running 6 4" aeroports and it tunes the box to 37hz which is no where near my resonant frequency of my vehicle. The freq of my car is 51hz and a new box is in line. I plan on adding more port area to the new box to bring the tuning up to 44hz. I will be adding 2 more aeroports to bring the total to 8 4" ports. I'm also thinking of building a custom 11.5" flared port instead of running the multiple 4" ports. I will probably test each way. I wasn't planning on making the box much smaller but I may drop it down a bit since it will give me a bit more rise and help keep my power output down.
The biggest problem is that I still want it to be loud for daily without having to switch out boxes for a show. I know I'm asking a lot and am probably getting close to the limit of what I can have one way or another. The car will more than likely be over a 152 on Saturday and is still at 43hz!!! In order to get any higher I may have to sacrafice some listening to achieve more spl in competition. Or just build a seperate comp box that will just be used for shows. That would be a pain in the ass but it may be the best solution.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Build the box so you can reduce port area for daily listening? Maybe block off one 4" port with an mdf puck or make a flange or plate for the port(s)that can be removed with your competition port(s)and another one with daily port(s).
Posts: 503 | From: streetsboro,oh | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's kinda what I have been working on. I am running 3 6" aeroports. I can easily switch out different length ports with just a matter of removing a few screws. Shorter for burps, longer for daily. Still working on it, but so far, so good.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
quote:Originally posted by tekk45: Build the box so you can reduce port area for daily listening? Maybe block off one 4" port with an mdf puck or make a flange or plate for the port(s)that can be removed with your competition port(s)and another one with daily port(s).
I already have what's called a test plug and is used for plumbing. It works excellent to plug an aeroport with and I've already tested that it does in fact change the tuning of the box without much loss of output. It wasn't as loud in my car plugged since it dropped the freq so low it really wasn't effective spl wise, but did sound great on music.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well a small update. Like I said before I've been able to get the car higher in testing, but the show that I went to this past weekend I did the same exact number as before. The funny thing is everything pointed in the right direction and nothing was really out of line in my car. I'd seen a 151.7 consistantly in testing and the meter we test with is .2 db down from the competition setup. So I figured at least a 151.7 or better, but for some reason the car only did a 151.2 again and I made a little bit more power than before.
I'm pretty sure once I get moved into my house I'm going to start working on a spl box for the car. I don't think that I'm going to go with the 8 4" port idea. What do you guys think about either still doing 6 4" ports or even 3 6" ports? I'm planning on around 6 cubes for the subs and am looking to tune to at least 44hz. I may still tune the box higher if need be, but with the car's resonant frequency being 51hz I think that 44hz is a good starting place. Eric, Jeff, you guys got any ideas?
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
these scores are legal? or hardcore? if hardcore, testing inside a building versus competing outside can make the difference
Posts: 5494 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1847 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Zach, that is almost identical to my setup in my Crx for my 4 12's. I have 6 cubes and 3 6" aero's I did not put the flares on the inside of the box so I can easily adjust the lengths for tuning. I started with a tuning of 46hz, but have since went up to 49hz. So far so good and like I said, easily changeable even at a show to go from a lower freq to a higher one for a burp.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic