You can see that as you increase up to 180dB and over, it becomes increasingly difficult to increase SPL. this is mainly because of the amount of force it will take to overcome these pressures. 170 is 1 PSI 177 is 2 PSI 180 is 3 PSI 183 is 6 PSI
Now 194 is really the limit of sound because this represents a total vacuum. After 194 the wave becomes distorted because you can keep creating positive pressure but cannot create anymore of a vacuum. So an acoustic wave then turns into a shockwave like what a bomb would produce. Also, 194 is about 15 PSI. There is no audio equipement in the world that can be used to reach this dB at this point in time.
-------------------- Ed Lester, Team T3 Audio Team Maxxsonics Team Power Master Team Hooker Audio Team Second Skin Team RazorLite 4 time dB drag World Finalist. 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 awsome guy at car audio stuff.
Technically astute
4 12" T3 Audio TSS V2s 1 HiFonics XXV Maxximus 8 Power Master D925s
Posts: 1650 | From: near Philly Pa | Registered: Dec 2006
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this one is the best "145-136 (P)“COMPETITION” CAR STEREO, SIXTEEN 12 OR EIGHT 15, OR FOUR 18 SPEAKERS"
-------------------- Travis Atherton Former Team Music Masters member 2005 World Finals – Street C DAILY DRIVER: 2005 CHEVY SILVERADO 3500, CC LB W/8 MEMPHIS MOJO 15's RECONED WITH FI PARTS ON 1 CRUNCH GP3000 Posts: 2954 | From: Hudson, MI | Registered: Jul 2007
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or this is good too! "163 (P)GLASSBREAKING LEVEL, MINIMUM, IT IS VERY HARD TO BREAK GLASS WINDOWS. MANY STORIES COME FROM BREAKING GLASS BUT IT IS HIGHLY VARIABLE: IT IS EASIER TO BREAK IF THE WINDOW ALREADY HAS A CRACK, IS VERY LARGE OR OLD AND BRITTLE AND NOT CAR SAFETY GLASS WHICH CAN FLEX ASSIVELY BEFORE BREAKING. AN OPERA SINGER AT 110 DB MAY BREAK A WINEGLASS BUT IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF FEQUENCY RESONANCE, AND NOT HIGH SOUND DB LEVEL"
-------------------- Travis Atherton Former Team Music Masters member 2005 World Finals – Street C DAILY DRIVER: 2005 CHEVY SILVERADO 3500, CC LB W/8 MEMPHIS MOJO 15's RECONED WITH FI PARTS ON 1 CRUNCH GP3000 Posts: 2954 | From: Hudson, MI | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by thanosdbfan: Not the right enclosure to be more precise...
-------------------- 2006 IDBL 2ND PLACE WORLD FINALS 2008 World Records TBA LiL Scrappy The Louddest Honda 600 in The World! www.quadaudio.net Posts: 1677 | From: Palm Springs,CA | Registered: May 2002
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this scale doesnt necessarily depend on what meter was used, just the weighting scale. Most commonly in science, we use a non weighted scale. A meter was used for most of these measurements but a combo of a meter and estimation formulas were used for the higher SPL examples. Its much too dangerous to be close to an atomic explosion to measure it, and a meter does not exist that can withstand the blast.
I think Alan is right about the 187. Monster division maybe 190. It really depends on airspace. This is part rocket science. When using 2 or more pressure chambers with a source of pressure in between, the pressure will be greatest in the smallest chamber. The smaller the chamber, the greater the pressure. The rules in place for extreme cars limit the size of the cabin in the car. The 30" rule for floor to ceiling for example. So even with the smallest car available, there is only so small we can get. Based on that smallest size possible notion, autosound equipement is only capable of building so much pressure in that space. I dont believe we have reached the limits of what autosound equipement can do, but were getting close.
-------------------- Ed Lester, Team T3 Audio Team Maxxsonics Team Power Master Team Hooker Audio Team Second Skin Team RazorLite 4 time dB drag World Finalist. 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 awsome guy at car audio stuff.
Technically astute
4 12" T3 Audio TSS V2s 1 HiFonics XXV Maxximus 8 Power Master D925s
Posts: 1650 | From: near Philly Pa | Registered: Dec 2006
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160 MPH is fast. Obviously high bass frequency. How far does the woofer move?
Its true, air speed will slow down against a solid surface. You want the least amount of friction as possible to minimize the slowing effect. so a smooth surface will have a good effect. Painting the surface very smooth works good
Have you measured airspeed against the surface of either the center console or ceiling of the port from driver side to passenger side? Is there any difference in airspeed on the surface versus the center area?
-------------------- Ed Lester, Team T3 Audio Team Maxxsonics Team Power Master Team Hooker Audio Team Second Skin Team RazorLite 4 time dB drag World Finalist. 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 awsome guy at car audio stuff.
Technically astute
4 12" T3 Audio TSS V2s 1 HiFonics XXV Maxximus 8 Power Master D925s
Posts: 1650 | From: near Philly Pa | Registered: Dec 2006
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"the sinze off the passage side is gona determinate the frequence you need to tuning your box ,to reproduse the most pressure, ! -the only way can 180s be do, if with 1 watts the car needs to do 130db for single woofer for 2 woofers you only need 124db, my car just for you all can see what efecience is, my car do 143db with 1 watts! if you move air with lots speed, at the passage side will do louder, sound travel at 160 miles inside the car by time get into the passage side ,builds big pressure! -thats why the interior of the car needs to be whell sand!!!about 300 grift minimum sand paper!"
Alan, it's nice to see you giving some great advice that can help us all achieve our goals, weather its in extreme or any other class. That's sportsmanship.
-------------------- www.competitionsoundz.com Team R&R TEAM MAXXSONICS (Feel the Power!) TEAM Cactus Sounds (Japan) LFG Fareast. He may not come when you want but, he's always right on time! Posts: 1388 | From: Fukushima, Japan | Registered: Mar 2005
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You can see that as you increase up to 180dB and over, it becomes increasingly difficult to increase SPL. this is mainly because of the amount of force it will take to overcome these pressures. 170 is 1 PSI 177 is 2 PSI 180 is 3 PSI 183 is 6 PSI
Now 194 is really the limit of sound because this represents a total vacuum. After 194 the wave becomes distorted because you can keep creating positive pressure but cannot create anymore of a vacuum. So an acoustic wave then turns into a shockwave like what a bomb would produce. Also, 194 is about 15 PSI. There is no audio equipement in the world that can be used to reach this dB at this point in time.
just to clear one thin, to do 180dbs is hard , but to go over 180s is 4 times harder! basic 180db for 600 liter space you need 12.000 w at 55hz . 180db for 1200 liter space you need 36.000 w at 60hz this number can be do if the space is 100% seal and 100% not vibration! Vibration kills pressure , i wish i have good ingles to tell you all, how works! i have my way to calculate power and air space to see how loud can be at difenrente conditions! -more vibration less 10db up to 30db lost! -100% zero vibration can be gaing over 30db But every thin cames dow to the one that real teste and take the time to see how works in real sound waves aplications! Work with sound wave in smal space is real hard because you need to look at more detals! one day we will do close to 187db , thats the louds can be do at car audio sound wave!to do louder then 187 you need to play off the rules! The rules for the extreme categore will hold the spl at 187db!if build a car complite off the rules like demo car ,i think crazy nunbers can be do! real close to 190db this is my opinion in base off lots testing and read about sound waves, and i have test box can do 183db at the term lab! thats why i garantee 187 is not that hard to do off the rules!
yes if we could bend one or two rules we could see Mad Numbers
-------------------- 2006 IDBL 2ND PLACE WORLD FINALS 2008 World Records TBA LiL Scrappy The Louddest Honda 600 in The World! www.quadaudio.net Posts: 1677 | From: Palm Springs,CA | Registered: May 2002
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Alan, does the sweet spot can affect really hard the microphone placement? I mean, do you need to play with angle and focus for the sound wave to get the max at the mic pacement?
I just wonder if people have already used special software to simulate the sound wave refraction and reflection into the cabin to place the focused wave direct to the mic placement? you know these kind software that map in 3D spl pressure, or also the thermal dissipation or mecanical stress...
Doc
-------------------- Street A "not legal but not outlaw!" Score in my integra: -152.34 dB 51Hz TL sensor -157,1dB 51Hz AC mic
2005-2006 Street A Champion in Quebec province!
CRAZY TESTs: ||||||THE ONLY 6.5" TO SCORE 168.9dB(TL)OUTLAW IN THE WORLD with 6 Watts.|||||| -Crazy 5.25 Bose sub 1.1cu box: 138.0dB TL mic 55Hz with ONLY 100W ! ---------------------------------- www.teamxmax.com Posts: 643 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Mar 2000
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Can't LEAP-5 be used to model some of that....if you give it massive amounts of input?
-------------------- World Record-Loudest SPL in my driveway Team Powermaster/XS-Power Hifonics Amps, Kicker subs-The way it should be Zensky....World Domination at It's Finest www.zensky.com Posts: 3439 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Doctorbass: Alan, does the sweet spot can affect really hard the microphone placement? I mean, do you need to play with angle and focus for the sound wave to get the max at the mic pacement?
I just wonder if people have already used special software to simulate the sound wave refraction and reflection into the cabin to place the focused wave direct to the mic placement? you know these kind software that map in 3D spl pressure, or also the thermal dissipation or mecanical stress...
Doc
yes when it all comes down to it all you need to do is get 199db in to the sensor hole no other place in the car needs to be at that pressure but to focus energy to that spot is the problem or is it
-------------------- 2006 IDBL 2ND PLACE WORLD FINALS 2008 World Records TBA LiL Scrappy The Louddest Honda 600 in The World! www.quadaudio.net Posts: 1677 | From: Palm Springs,CA | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gavin: "the sinze off the passage side is gona determinate the frequence you need to tuning your box ,to reproduse the most pressure, ! -the only way can 180s be do, if with 1 watts the car needs to do 130db for single woofer for 2 woofers you only need 124db, my car just for you all can see what efecience is, my car do 143db with 1 watts! if you move air with lots speed, at the passage side will do louder, sound travel at 160 miles inside the car by time get into the passage side ,builds big pressure! -thats why the interior of the car needs to be whell sand!!!about 300 grift minimum sand paper!"
Alan, it's nice to see you giving some great advice that can help us all achieve our goals, weather its in extreme or any other class. That's sportsmanship.
i ben help people every day...you talk like i never help ...every event i go i help competitors ,but if is not using dd woofer ,stetsom amplifiers ,or power master batterys i don't help! i think i need to help only companys that help me ... my sponsors will not like to see me help the bad companys!
I'm not in extreme, but I do have a question for you. All the things you gentlemen are talking about..air speed, pressure and so on, how can I apply these things to the super street class? you said that if a car vibrates it can loose up to 30db's so how can I make the front section of my van stronger?
-------------------- www.competitionsoundz.com Team R&R TEAM MAXXSONICS (Feel the Power!) TEAM Cactus Sounds (Japan) LFG Fareast. He may not come when you want but, he's always right on time! Posts: 1388 | From: Fukushima, Japan | Registered: Mar 2005
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Alan, In my accord I have DD9515's D2's, 16 Powermaster batteries and 4 XX-Goliaths
-------------------- www.competitionsoundz.com Team R&R TEAM MAXXSONICS (Feel the Power!) TEAM Cactus Sounds (Japan) LFG Fareast. He may not come when you want but, he's always right on time! Posts: 1388 | From: Fukushima, Japan | Registered: Mar 2005
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A high airspeed just means you are dropping the pressure to lower PSI, preferably only on the rarefraction of the wave, by Bernoulli's principle. the sensors are measuring the change in pressure. generating the negatives in rapid succession is where the limit is, and therefore more difficult. If the pressure drops so dramatically at one point of high air velocity, it must be compoundingly increased in compression at another point in a smaller pocket of air.
-------------------- World Record-Loudest SPL in my driveway Team Powermaster/XS-Power Hifonics Amps, Kicker subs-The way it should be Zensky....World Domination at It's Finest www.zensky.com Posts: 3439 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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that is in a gaseous medium. in fluid it would react different.
-------------------- World Record-Loudest SPL in my driveway Team Powermaster/XS-Power Hifonics Amps, Kicker subs-The way it should be Zensky....World Domination at It's Finest www.zensky.com Posts: 3439 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by D-Bass: that is in a gaseous medium. in fluid it would react different.
i got gas
-------------------- Travis Atherton Former Team Music Masters member 2005 World Finals – Street C DAILY DRIVER: 2005 CHEVY SILVERADO 3500, CC LB W/8 MEMPHIS MOJO 15's RECONED WITH FI PARTS ON 1 CRUNCH GP3000 Posts: 2954 | From: Hudson, MI | Registered: Jul 2007
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