quote:Originally posted by MOJOMAN: i know alot more than you think my friend. the post you made and then edited, slanders my character in such a way that it can affect my employment record, past and future, and that is messing with my future and career and i dont take kindly to that when it is a bold face lie used at an attempt to belittle me. i was not fired, i quit and you know this. and i have plenty of proof to back up my side! legal and binding. can you produce any amount, what so ever that i was fired?...i dont think so! so choose your words wiser before you get into something you cant get out of! good day and best of luck to yo... nah, never mind, who cares. tell craig i said hi.
bla ,bla , bla.just get to work man you need to do other tipe job , for sales ,you are big! i think you sold $0,000000000000000000000000 for stetsom! mister stetsom don't care what you think! If you know that much build that cadilac loud, Border motor sports can kick they score with 1 7kd from my stock
Please stop mr 180 dbzzzzzzzz, you are hurting my feelings... i am so concerned over what your and stetsoms opionion are of me i cant think right.... and im losing sleep.... whatever dude, calling out the escallade sure does make you look much bigger and smarter than me.
dude why you got to always come in here starting shi+ . the biggest fraud perpetuated on the american public was a hoax, you ate cheese on that one buddie....it has always been my opinion that if you have nothing pertinent to say in a conversation....keep your mouth shut!!! just my opinion......
if i ate cheese it was because i was a rat! and i snitched on the so called 7k being tested. it seems you are unaware of the story being told now. it was admitted that the amp used for testing was a 8k prototype! It was said that apparently some competitors just didnt hear the part of it actually being an 8k prototype. And as for the reason as starting shi* all the time, i am on the competitors side, and want to see the sport grow, but in competitor attendance, not less competitors and more manufactures! with the amp ratings being twisted as they are, well just look at who all has already quit! And also good buddy, when i was certified a nspl judge, i was told to abide by the rules, and in my eyes along with othes, the amps ratings are getting out of control. there is nothing wrong with the stetsom amps!! they are very powerful and small, but they should be in their appropiate classes, not being downsized just to shoe horn them into smaller classes. the competitors have to draw the line somewhere, when are we going to uniteand say enough is enough!! the rules were changed to make the classes more fair and encourage more new competitors and once again, it happens. Stetsom amps are very strong, but they should be rated properly! How are you going to justify even allowing an amp that is not even musical to be in a 0-400 amp class? whats next, tone generators? get for real dude open your eyes, look at it from a differnt view, not as a stetsom competitor, how would you feel if us amps made a 20,000 watt amp that and it was allowed in your class even though everyone with common sense knows there is no way possible it is legal no matter how you bend the rules. furthermore, isnt it true that in order for the amps to be legal, they must be consumerably available? and according to the post about the 8k, its only available to "competitors", which means "its not an off the shelf piece! consumer means one who uses the product on an average daily basis to play music on the street! its all good though, if you feel comfortable in upholding the death of nspl, your are entitled to your opinion, and so am i! Some of you guys just amaze me, can you not read? just go back and look at the changes in nspl, the number of shows, the number of competitors, "THEY ARE GETTING SMALLER EVERY YEAR", and it is up to us to take a stance and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"! Should the amps be allowed?, I SAY YES, BUT IN THE APPROPIATE CLASSES!
-------------------- "FREE AGENT FOR THE PEOPLE" 2005 DB DRAG FINALIST 3RD EXTR 3-4 LOUDEST ESCALADE ON PLANET!! 160+ 2 SUBS 4 MOJO 2000'S WORLDS LOUDEST COUGAR, 160 OUTLAW 2004 NSPL WORLD CHAMP. PRO HARDCORE. 2004 NSPL WORLD REC.PRO. HARDCORE NSPL CERTIFIED JUDGE """ TEAM PSYCHO""" BACK IN ACTION
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lee the amp being tested wasn't an 8k prototype, it was a 12v 7kd. i inivited you to the show to see that mine was stock, and to see the 12v 7k. but you didn't show up. so you had your chance, but would rather come on here and keep talking when you don't know what your talking about.
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they are fused correctly for the recommended impedance. for example a 2k6d is 2 ohm stable and fused at 175, on a 2 ohm reactive load, you can't blow the fuse. now people competing with them are running them at .175ohm the fuse still holds for a burp, but playing for more than a few seconds at this load will blow the fuse. we aren't exactly using any of these amps the way they were intended to be used. this is what everyone forgets.
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i'm telling you that like all other amps rated to do a certain power at 1ohm, 2ohm or 4ohm. these tests are done into a static load, meaning it doesn't rise in impedance. in the real world impedance rises, therefore your amp that does 1500 at 1 ohm is seeing 3.5- 4ohm. so now you are getting 375 watts. so to counter this you start at a lower impedance and rise to the manufacturers rated impedance. when doing this you get the 1500 watts. so whether you've got a dd amp, hifonics, stetsom, sundown, or whatever if your running at the recommended impedance your getting about 35% of the power. on the other hand if you try to run these amps where with rise your at the recommended impedance daily they are going to burn up.
quote:Originally posted by clkwrkorg36: i'm telling you that like all other amps rated to do a certain power at 1ohm, 2ohm or 4ohm. these tests are done into a static load, meaning it doesn't rise in impedance. in the real world impedance rises, therefore your amp that does 1500 at 1 ohm is seeing 3.5- 4ohm. so now you are getting 375 watts. so to counter this you start at a lower impedance and rise to the manufacturers rated impedance. when doing this you get the 1500 watts. so whether you've got a dd amp, hifonics, stetsom, sundown, or whatever if your running at the recommended impedance your getting about 35% of the power. on the other hand if you try to run these amps where with rise your at the recommended impedance daily they are going to burn up.
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-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4844 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I can't believe people still don't understand about how different fuse manufactures same rated fuses can hold different amounts of amperage. It's not Stetsom's fault that they use higher quality fuses than other manufactures.
And keep in mind that Stetsom has been using these fuses in their amps way before anyone was using them for spl leagues that used fuse rating for their classes.
So you can't say that "Stetsom needs to rate their amps honestly" Actually if you want honesty Stetsom's big amps ratings are overrated at their rated impedance.
Posts: 1770 | From: elgin | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mr.Sears one 15 sub from hell:
quote:Originally posted by dahurst87: Steve, your whole team runs Stetsom amps, so does this mean that your team couldn't dominate the classes without them? There are plenty of amplifiers out there that can hang with Stetsom amps. Enclosure is EVERYTHING!!!! I think if you put a amp that is comparable to a 7KD it will be very close. Terry Brocks with his Hifonics, SPL Dynamics, American Bass, or even Soundstream amps are just as good. This should not force competitors to quit NSPL.
Let me clarify........My whole team didn't run Stetsom amps,till this season.We got beat at Finals,but barely.(against Stetsom amps)We have efficient enclosures,that's why we are a dominate force right now,and with us running Stetsom,we are even more dangerous.Look at the scores closely,it will take the next competitor to run a 7kd, to beat one of my guy's running a 2k6d. And that may still not help.Basically,what I'm trying to say is....with a team like mine out there,and with these Stetsom amps,unless the competition has very efficient enclosures,they will have a very slim chance of winning.And you are right...there are plenty of amps,that can hang with Stetsom,but they have more than a 200amp,and 400amp fuse rating.
What kind of numbers are your guys doing with a single 2k6d?
Posts: 1770 | From: elgin | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by dtbrown: I can't believe people still don't understand about how different fuse manufactures same rated fuses can hold different amounts of amperage. It's not Stetsom's fault that they use higher quality fuses than other manufactures.
That doesn't make any sense... if I write 175-amps on a 300-amp fuse it doesn't make it a higher quality fuse.
A fuse is intended to blow as a safety measure at a certain level of current draw - if it doesn't it is either defective or mis-labeled.
The fuse that handles more current is not "higher quality" because it handles more current, it is quite possibly out of spec with what it should be.
That makes as much sense as saying that if I install a 20-amp breaker in my house of Brand-X and it doesn't trip until I pull 100-amps that it is a higher quality breaker... because my house will probably be burning down if I pull 100-amp through wiring connected to a 20-amp breaker.
-------------------- - Jacob Fuller Posts: 991 | From: Mooresville, NC | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dtbrown: I can't believe people still don't understand about how different fuse manufactures same rated fuses can hold different amounts of amperage. It's not Stetsom's fault that they use higher quality fuses than other manufactures.
That doesn't make any sense... if I write 175-amps on a 300-amp fuse it doesn't make it a higher quality fuse.
A fuse is intended to blow as a safety measure at a certain level of current draw - if it doesn't it is either defective or mis-labeled.
The fuse that handles more current is not "higher quality" because it handles more current, it is quite possibly out of spec with what it should be.
That makes as much sense as saying that if I install a 20-amp breaker in my house of Brand-X and it doesn't trip until I pull 100-amps that it is a higher quality breaker... because my house will probably be burning down if I pull 100-amp through wiring connected to a 20-amp breaker.
I believe there are different standards in fuses. Some fuses are designed to blow quicker than others, I think. I think it is done this way for short spikes in current versus long spikes, I think some electrical components are more sensitive and if they draw too much current for a long time they could get damaged, and a short spike in current would blow the fuse. I think these fuses are designed to protect the equipment. Other fuses can handle a longer spike for components that have peaks of current draw, and a longer current spike would blow the fuse to protect the wiring. I could be wrong though.
I'm sure if someone researched it, we could find out. I'm feeling too lazy to research it.
-------------------- Alejandro "Alex" Avila Sound Decision SPL Team - team captain http://www.sounddecisioninc.com Posts: 1450 | From: Montgomery, IL U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dtbrown: I can't believe people still don't understand about how different fuse manufactures same rated fuses can hold different amounts of amperage. It's not Stetsom's fault that they use higher quality fuses than other manufactures.
That doesn't make any sense... if I write 175-amps on a 300-amp fuse it doesn't make it a higher quality fuse.
A fuse is intended to blow as a safety measure at a certain level of current draw - if it doesn't it is either defective or mis-labeled.
The fuse that handles more current is not "higher quality" because it handles more current, it is quite possibly out of spec with what it should be.
That makes as much sense as saying that if I install a 20-amp breaker in my house of Brand-X and it doesn't trip until I pull 100-amps that it is a higher quality breaker... because my house will probably be burning down if I pull 100-amp through wiring connected to a 20-amp breaker.
Ok, so "higher quality" was a bad choice of wording. How ever you want to word it as far as I know there might be no standard on the market for manufacturing of how a fuse must be rated. So people shouldn't complain to the company that uses the fuses, complain to the manufacture that makes the fuses. Here is the website of the fuses that Stetsom uses. Littlefuse.com
I'm sure that they'll be more than happy to hear about how they rate their fuses is done wrong.
And while your at it you might as well start calling up all the other fuse manufactures thats product isn't rated correctly. Because there are plenty of other companies out there.
Obviously I'm being a smart azz so the point is Stetsom doesn't make the fuses they use in their amps nor do they purposely use these fuses to try and circumvent some rule for car audio competition. These fuses where being used in their product way before anyone started using them for competition.
But we are saying the amplifier does 3,000 at 2 ohms and if you go below that you void your warranty?
Its obvious its done like this to circumvent amplifier rules.
If thats the case, Jake could say not to run his Sundown 3000s under 8 ohm or you void warranty.
So the 3k, becomes a 750 watt amp. And it draws 75 amps.
Other organizations (MECA) went through this with Incrimintor Audio when the 20.1s first came out. Having to rate an amplifier differently to circumvent rules is borderline cheating IMO. And is done to monopolize the classes that rate this way.
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Posts: 8170 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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I think that I have had enough of the dumb Sh*t!!
Your standard fuse is rated at 85% of the max value for spike reasons
Ex: an 85 amp fuse will pull 100 amps at spikes with out blowing. This is an electrical standard!! if a fuse is pulling more that that it it dosent meet the natinoal or UL standard although most fuses allow more current for less amounts of time. All this is based on the thermal dynamics of the materials used in the fuse some manufactures do this on porpose!! they will use differant materials to allow the fuse to surpass the built in 15% limit. I hope this will put an end to this once and for all!!
-------------------- TEAM DB UNIT (Master Yoda) 2006 Competition Only Hardcore Points Champion 2006 Competition Only Trunk Stock Points Champion 2007 Competition Only Trunk Stock Points Champion 2008 Competition Only Overall Points Champion http://www.competitiononly.com/ Authorized Second Skin Dealer www.secondskinaudio.com [IMG]
quote:Originally posted by dtbrown: Ok, so "higher quality" was a bad choice of wording. How ever you want to word it as far as I know there might be no standard on the market for manufacturing of how a fuse must be rated. So people shouldn't complain to the company that uses the fuses, complain to the manufacture that makes the fuses. Here is the website of the fuses that Stetsom uses. Littlefuse.com
I'm sure that they'll be more than happy to hear about how they rate their fuses is done wrong.
And while your at it you might as well start calling up all the other fuse manufactures thats product isn't rated correctly. Because there are plenty of other companies out there.
Obviously I'm being a smart azz so the point is Stetsom doesn't make the fuses they use in their amps nor do they purposely use these fuses to try and circumvent some rule for car audio competition. These fuses where being used in their product way before anyone started using them for competition.
Higher Quality was completely incorrect and that is what my response was directed towards.
You make a great case in the rest of your post as to why nSPL shouldn't use fuse ratings for their class designations. They do vary quite a bit.
-------------------- - Jacob Fuller Posts: 991 | From: Mooresville, NC | Registered: Oct 2001
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The fuse current rate is something that is used to try to make the competions fair it was in no way shape or form an attempt to give stetsom the upper edge. It is our nature as competitors to do what we can to win. The heads of the orginizations try to make the compations fair but no matter what somebody is not going to be happy. By all means I think you should voice your concerns but do it in the right way. Valid points should be investigated. It's hard when your dealing with so many variables. Amps like the HiFonics, Trios, American Bass, Sundowns ect,,, which are all made by the same Chinese mfg. versus the Stetsome, US, or even the big rockford and Kicker amps are rated by the mfg in different ways per their area.
-------------------- YOU DON'T WANT NONE! Posts: 3 | From: North Carolina | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by HIT HARD: Amps like the HiFonics, Trios, American Bass, Sundowns ect,,, which are all made by the same Chinese mfg. versus the Stetsome, US, or even the big rockford and Kicker amps are rated by the mfg in different ways per their area.
LOL, I don't know about most of the Hifonics amps, but Treo, American Bass and Sundown are not made in China. And most Rockford and Kicker amps aren't manufactured in the United States either.
The only thing I'm going to add to this discussion is that when a single amplifier is the only one that you can use and expect to win, there's a problem. This will turn people away from NSPL, because believe it or not, some people have other brand loyalties and sponsors, and will not under any circumstances run Stetsom. What will guys like that do? Move to other organizations. Then you've got 30 cars at a show all running the same amp. It's just about there now. Last show I went to, every car except maybe 2 had Stetsom amps in them. While this may make Dante happy, it takes all the fun out of the competition. I go to shows to see all the different setups and brands, not to see a single amp in every car.
Why not just go ahead and rewrite the rules to where everyone in the amperage classes have to run a Stetsom 2K6, and then let the best builders win? Change the name to National Stetsom Pressure League, and call it a day? That's what NSPL is coming to anyways. People who will or do run Stetsom will show up, everyone else will leave, it's that simple. Ask long time DB Drag competitors, it's happened there also back in the day, from amps being intentionally misrated.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN Posts: 168 | From: Lumberton, NC | Registered: Mar 2006
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well last year most were running sundown. the year before there were a lot of american bass and dd. before that were matts and usamps. before that ppi and orion. so just wait like everything else in life it goes in cycles.
quote:Originally posted by Derrick824: Why do the specs on Stetsoms website say the 2k6d has a 240a current draw?
Probably same reason the 7kd shows 480a?
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
quote:Originally posted by clkwrkorg36: well last year most were running sundown. the year before there were a lot of american bass and dd. before that were matts and usamps. before that ppi and orion. so just wait like everything else in life it goes in cycles.
No, last year all the competitors using Sundown were moved up a class because of the 160 amp fusing, and then in finals, they allowed the Stetsom 2K6 in the 150 amp classes. If you're on the outside looking in Ryan, it just seems that NSPL caters to Stetsom.
I was moved into Pro Trunk last year because I was running 2 SAZ-1500d's, which had 160 amps fusing each. No problem, rules are rules, right? But then when finals rolls around, and the 2K6 is allowed in the amperage classes, when it clearly stated on the website that they have 240 amp draw, and had 200 amp fusing. Seem a little one sided? Then when I brought it up, and was backed up by a few competitors, Fred changed the rules to 200 amp fusing for this year, but yet, all the guys that weren't even close to falling within the rules last year still have their trophies, and the title of champion, don't they?
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN Posts: 168 | From: Lumberton, NC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I have been in the eletronics field sense 1988 and have seen every design from the old class A tube amps to the now day most advanced servo drivers and have spoke with some of the brilliant minds that designed them so where ever you may think your amplifier came from I know where the orginal design came form and where all the components were manufactured. It doesn't make it bad even the low cost amplifiers have a lot of engineering in them by some of the best people you will ever meet. The playing field should be leveled but you can't do that over night. When the MMATS amps popped up on the scene it was the same issue and through all the orginizations it took time to try to clean up. Were you whinning like this when the amps you have were on top?? If you want to drop out then do so gracefully when your on top, that way you wont look like you do now. A SORE LOOSER TRYING TO GET SOMEONE ON HIS SIDE. Instead of bit*hin and whinning about it why don't you send useful thoughts of ways to make the compitions better to help regrow the industry. Most of us have kids so we all know how to change diapers but giving constructive thoughts takes a little more work to give and take.
-------------------- YOU DON'T WANT NONE! Posts: 3 | From: North Carolina | Registered: May 2008
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