quote:Originally posted by Scubaguy: I like my break down of classes. Street Stock Street A Street B Street Max Super Street NW Super Street 1-3 Super street 4+ Extreme this is a copy of an email I sent Wayne on my suggestions the focus on Bass Race and Street Stock classes.
Wayne,
I have thought about street stock class and talked to a few manufactures and have came up with what I thought might be a good street stock class
1. Must play music for at least 20 seconds of the run
It can still be peak hold but you make it so the meter needs to read a minimum of 120db for 20 seconds of the run or the score will be a zero. This will force the competitors to play more then just a single note during their run.
2. Make the subwoofer just a stamped steel basket with no larger then a 2.5” vc.
This will make it easy for any manufacture world wide to have a product line that can be used and not limited to a line just in the USA.
3. I think the power rating will work without a list.
That being said, if there is an amp in question the competitors can bring it to our attention and it can be tested. I can test it if you do not have the time. I have access to Arc audio’s shop and equipment.
4. Since a competitor needs to pre-register for finals the competitors must list their products and must use those exact products. Then a week before finals we can list all of the products being used, so if there is a question about their validity it can be addressed before finals. For any world record in those classes we can check the power output of the amp and it needs to be within specs to prove that there has been no tampering with the original product. This can be done with a simple chart of amps, volts for the amps being used at world finals.
Bass Race should add the Dice roll after two ties. This has added huge excitement to my shows and seems to be accepted well on the forum. Also I think the doors and windows should be allowed open during the run for the 129.9 – 149.9 classes and be totally sealed for the 50+ class.
later Doug
Doug i like all of your ideas how does the dice roll work for competitors/spectators ?
why cant there be a forum sub division where we (the judges) can vote on a component...amp or sub although street stock should be stamped baskets and 2.5" coils
the pre reg with equipment for finals is good to that way you cant come with some part not allowed or approved it will take like 1 day to make a ruling make the list approval end on points cut off so no sneaking an amp in at the last min this way we don't need to maintain a list on every part just have to ok a part amongst the judges
-------------------- Psycho out! "loved by none-hated by all"
Posts: 1119 | From: NORTHEAST USA AND CANADA | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ---Navi---: I cant figure out why the trend isnt noticed that the more classes you cut the less there are in the lanes the next year.
If you stick with what you mention you might as well plan for 7 street classes next year and nothing else. The few competitors in the lower SS arent very likely to want to stick around and try to beat the guys already established.
Instead of talking to manufactures and retailers about what can be done, why not talk to the seasoned competitors that were there year after year and walked away and see what drove them away and fix that instead of adding to the problem.
I cant help but say this is another nail in the coffin.
Best idea in this thread.
If you are worried about COMPETITORS why not ask US what should be done to help the sport?
Seems to me that asking manuf's and shops what is needed is going to the wrong part of the problem.
What they care about is SELLING - bottom line (no matter what it takes to make those few extra bucks)... what WE care about is making the sport better which will in turn create more sales.
Sometimes people who sell are blinded by their own needs to profit and don't see the larger picture.
Just my opinion though
-------------------- Team 2loud4you Stef's Crazy Team International Posts: 4599 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
1. Street Stock 2. Street A 3. Street B 4. Street C 5. Street Max 6. Super Street No-Wall 7. Super Street 1-3 8. Super Street 4+ 9. Extreme
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta TEAM CACTUS SOUNDS Proud former member of TEAM KICKER 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2009 Street A 2010 ??????????????????
* Brackets aint going to get full from deleting or changing classes every year . It just gets even more competitors out
* Costs for promotors - organisers stays the same with less or the same amount of classes . Fees to Db Drag is a fix thing . Trophies are been re-used at next competitions Or get only labeled at the competition in the less crowded classes . its common knowed . Where to find the lower costs ?.
* If there is a decent fact why to change classes again , i can agree , further then that it only destroys more then it ever will bring a gain .
* Only class i can bring my ?? on is Street Stock , its there , but is there someone that knows what can be used in that class ? To my toughts it is even not possible to make restrictions in a global matter with a list builded up by Db Drag Racing - Wayne itself , brands - products are in to many variations in the differend countries - continents .
* Its now allready some years that there is a class "deleting" , is it possible to show the benefits from these past actions ? Any gain in the brackets at all before and after ? I'm sure if you look deeper in those graphs within taking everything in account , there is just 1 change : no gain at all . So there is a need to have a differend view and ideas .
* Less classes equals less needs to build cars for = less differend installs = less sold equipment = less intrest ...
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I believe there are too many classes in dB Drag Racing. Each year, I speak with all of our turn-key event promoters, international representatives, and others regarding this issue. Each year, we all come to the conclusion that we have too many classes. This year, I believe it is more important than ever to focus on class reductions for the following reasons...
The scores in many classes are very similar.
Some classes do not have enough competitors to justify the existence of multiple classes.
Many classes are not fully populated at multipoint events. This reduces the excitement of competition in these classes.
Officiating simplicity.
Cost - Multipoint events require that all classes be offered. Promoters must supply trophies for each class. Many times, trophies are wasted because the class brackets are not full.
I believe we should reduce the classes as follows...
Street Stock Street A Street B Street C Street Max Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3+ Extreme
This graph shows the participation breakdown for 2008. If you have a recommended class reduction, please post it here.
If you look at the scores in the divisions that are combined you will see that the scores are very close from class to class.
With a reduction in classes, we could also go back to offering 1-8 trophies in each class at the WF.
in my opinion we need to keep 2 extreme classes, THE EXTREME ONE IS THE CLASS FOR THE GUYS THA START COMPETE ,AND NEED MORE MONEY FOR THE CAR, I AM RELLY NOT LONGER BE COMPETE IF YOU DO ONE CLASS, I HAVE START REBUILD THE VOLVO FOR ONE SUBWOOFER(EXTREME 1) THAN AT THIS POINT TO TURN BACK TO 4 OR 6 SUBS IS IMPOSIBLE.THAN THE VOLVO WILL RUST AT THE OUTSIDE MY SHOP IN BRAZIL... I STRONGE THINK THAT MAKE ONE CLASS WILL MAKE THE SPORT SMALER ,LEAVE THE CLASS THE WAY YOU HAVE, NOW WITH THE SOUTH AMERICA PROJETE THAT I AM DOING FOR YOU WILL BE MORE PEOPLE COMPETEN , THE EXTREME CLASS IS THE FORMULA 1 OF THE CAR STEREO COMPETITION ,THAN IF YOU MAKE ONE CLASS AT LIST KEEP THE WORLD RECORDS FOR EATH CLASS. FROM 14 YEARS BUILDING CARS FOR CAR STEREO COMPETITION, I CAN TELL YOU THAT WILL BE 50% HARDER TO BUILD A CAR WITH 1 SUB,LOUDER THAN A CAR WITH 2 SUBS OR MORE,WITH 2 SUBS IS NOT SOUL HARD TO BEAT CARS WITH 3 OR MORE SUBS ,BUT FOR THE GUYS THAT HAVE SINGLE SUB THAT IS GONA TAKE MORE TIME AND MONEY TO GET AT THE TOP THE WORLD RECORDS. BUT YOU OWN DB DRAG ,DO WHAT YOUR HART TELL YOU TO DO... BUT WILL BE LESS PEOPLE FOR SHUR. LOOK LIKE NEXT YEAR WILL NOT BE LONGER EXTREME CLASS.THIS IS THE LAST YEAR OF THE EXTREME CLASS????
-------------------- ''The first brazilian to compete in SPL outside brazilian borders.''
172.3 with ONE SUB on 2002 DB Drag World Finals 169 on Extreme 2 2003 DB Drag World Finals ...2006 world recorde extreme 1 -177,8 db and deathmath champion ...179.3db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...179.7db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...180.5db extreme 1 FIRST DB DRAG 180SSS ...2007 world CUP HOLDER 179.7DBS 1 SUB WOOFER and deathmath champion ...2008 180.9db ex 2 world champion and deathmath 173db ...2009 181.7db ex3+ WR ...life beging at 180db Posts: 1210 | From: indian trail nc | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I believe there are too many classes in dB Drag Racing. Each year, I speak with all of our turn-key event promoters, international representatives, and others regarding this issue. Each year, we all come to the conclusion that we have too many classes. This year, I believe it is more important than ever to focus on class reductions for the following reasons...
The scores in many classes are very similar.
Some classes do not have enough competitors to justify the existence of multiple classes.
Many classes are not fully populated at multipoint events. This reduces the excitement of competition in these classes.
Officiating simplicity.
Cost - Multipoint events require that all classes be offered. Promoters must supply trophies for each class. Many times, trophies are wasted because the class brackets are not full.
I believe we should reduce the classes as follows...
Street Stock Street A Street B Street C Street Max Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3+ Extreme
This graph shows the participation breakdown for 2008. If you have a recommended class reduction, please post it here.
If you look at the scores in the divisions that are combined you will see that the scores are very close from class to class.
With a reduction in classes, we could also go back to offering 1-8 trophies in each class at the WF.
in my opinion we need to keep 2 extreme classes, THE EXTREME ONE IS THE CLASS FOR THE GUYS THA START COMPETE ,AND NEED MORE MONEY FOR THE CAR, I AM RELLY NOT LONGER BE COMPETE IF YOU DO ONE CLASS, I HAVE START REBUILD THE VOLVO FOR ONE SUBWOOFER(EXTREME 1) THAN AT THIS POINT TO TURN BACK TO 4 OR 6 SUBS IS IMPOSIBLE.THAN THE VOLVO WILL RUST AT THE OUTSIDE MY SHOP IN BRAZIL... I STRONGE THINK THAT MAKE ONE CLASS WILL MAKE THE SPORT SMALER ,LEAVE THE CLASS THE WAY YOU HAVE, NOW WITH THE SOUTH AMERICA PROJETE THAT I AM DOING FOR YOU WILL BE MORE PEOPLE COMPETEN , THE EXTREME CLASS IS THE FORMULA 1 OF THE CAR STEREO COMPETITION ,THAN IF YOU MAKE ONE CLASS AT LIST KEEP THE WORLD RECORDS FOR EATH CLASS. FROM 14 YEARS BUILDING CARS FOR CAR STEREO COMPETITION, I CAN TELL YOU THAT WILL BE 50% HARDER TO BUILD A CAR WITH 1 SUB,LOUDER THAN A CAR WITH 2 SUBS OR MORE,WITH 2 SUBS IS NOT SOUL HARD TO BEAT CARS WITH 3 OR MORE SUBS ,BUT FOR THE GUYS THAT HAVE SINGLE SUB THAT IS GONA TAKE MORE TIME AND MONEY TO GET AT THE TOP THE WORLD RECORDS. BUT YOU OWN DB DRAG ,DO WHAT YOUR HART TELL YOU TO DO... BUT WILL BE LESS PEOPLE FOR SHUR. LOOK LIKE NEXT YEAR WILL NOT BE LONGER EXTREME CLASS.THIS IS THE LAST YEAR OF THE EXTREME CLASS????
-------------------- ''The first brazilian to compete in SPL outside brazilian borders.''
172.3 with ONE SUB on 2002 DB Drag World Finals 169 on Extreme 2 2003 DB Drag World Finals ...2006 world recorde extreme 1 -177,8 db and deathmath champion ...179.3db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...179.7db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...180.5db extreme 1 FIRST DB DRAG 180SSS ...2007 world CUP HOLDER 179.7DBS 1 SUB WOOFER and deathmath champion ...2008 180.9db ex 2 world champion and deathmath 173db ...2009 181.7db ex3+ WR ...life beging at 180db Posts: 1210 | From: indian trail nc | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Street Stock Street A Street B Street C Street Max Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3+ Extreme 1 Extreme 2+
This is what I would vote for and I will explain below.
We need Street Stock but we need to get on the ball about making sure these amps are at or under the class limit per amp. A simple clamp/volt test during the run will solve all unknown amps while showing new competitors that we are fair and precise in our competitions. Also limit power wire to a maximum of two runs of power wire(one power and one ground). Seeing vetrans in this class running top allowed gear and 8+runs of wire look bad on all of us.
In all street classes keep the same rules with these changes, Double stacked amps that are clearly 2 amps should be counted as 2 amps, can't get any easier than that. Also power wire should be limited to 4 runs of 1/0 PER AMP(2 power and 2 ground).
Street max is sorta in the same situation, its a good place for people with less power to play and I like to see it remain the same.
Super street is at the point when having more than 2 subwoofers its a whole other level of competition so having a 1-2 and a 3+ class is fine. Rules should remain the same for these classes with some of the wording on custom panels revised to be more black and white. To many door panels I see are getting on the verge of out right extreme.
Extreme is sorta the same situation as SS where once you get past one speaker its a point when more than one is marginally louder. Mainly the one woofer class is a good proving ground for manufactures to torture test their products and this testing that improves product trickles down to the other classes as a result of this. Since I judged the extreme vehicles at Indy finals I would suggest a proper and official jig be designed that all certified judges and competitors can build/use to judge the passengers cabin. Sam Horn had a nice idea at finals with his and with a few tweeks it could be perfect.
The consumer market is feeling the squeeze and we need to lower the the potential investment each competitor will see when considering dB Drag for their choice of competition.
I have other recomendations but this is all for now.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig -All Out S.P.L. Saskatchewan's dB Drag event promoter -Check the Termpro homepage partners for the companies I support. Posts: 2622 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dB Don: The consumer market is feeling the squeeze and we need to lower the the potential investment each competitor will see when considering dB Drag for their choice of competition.
Hi Don , The Quote is perfectly right .
Regards the details in the classes , your right in your facts . But , lets view it more open and less technical ( less spl minded ) : fewer classes = less cars to build - variation = more boring = fewer people that will get intrested .
Regards all the ideas i read here , i see just 1 goal in it : to get at the end of 2009 or in 2010 a few db drag competitors that got in street : Panda's - CRX's with Big amps , cables and subs ; in SS : some guys with the same wall - system , here and there 1 sub more or less ; and exactly the same in EX . I think i dont need to tell how boring that must look for a outsider .
With reducing the classes , people - futured competitors ( hopefully ) Cant have a variation or a personal creation - choise , they just get narrowed and pushed to invest without a choise .
Now ( after all the changes allready ) people do have still some freedom to use "normal" quality subs - amps and be creative in there way And still Have Fun in the lanes ( allready less then it was before , but they are still there somehow ) , >>> that is something We may not forget here : People do compete Mainly to have FUN en that is what brings them in .
Only the hardcore number guys are going for the 4 digits on the screen , the rest competes for a mix of a nice score , bass , and having FUN .
Some can tell , thats more Bass Race , but be honest to yourselfs and see it less serious for those 4 digits then it really is , get some LIFE in this sport again instead of blocking things up .
The only thing i really see is that people complain that changes in classes happens , also new upcomming competitors or outsiders . If i can see a fact that really contributes towards having less classes , i am all ear , just i like to see what it can bring .
About street stock : a class like this Is needed , but let the organisers - promotors build up a class regional like this on there own , Or get a class like this with restrictions like Don sayed , but no list regards brands - products , because that is something that aint gone work long for sure .
And to finish this here , i dont post this in my favor , people that do know me , know that i do this allready for a loooooong time , and its for the Fun and PR's that i am in the lanes then for anything else . I dont mind for myself that EX classes get to 1 class , or that they would make a extremesuperstreetmax from it , I am just worried about the whole thing and the direction it is going .
Like told before , people have the need to have a Stable Platform , then there is the room to build ( in both ways of speaking !! )
quote:Originally posted by dB Don: Street Stock Street A Street B Street C Street Max Super Street 1-2 Super Street 3+ Extreme 1 Extreme 2+
This is what I would vote for and I will explain below.
We need Street Stock but we need to get on the ball about making sure these amps are at or under the class limit per amp. A simple clamp/volt test during the run will solve all unknown amps while showing new competitors that we are fair and precise in our competitions. Also limit power wire to a maximum of two runs of power wire(one power and one ground). Seeing vetrans in this class running top allowed gear and 8+runs of wire look bad on all of us.
In all street classes keep the same rules with these changes, Double stacked amps that are clearly 2 amps should be counted as 2 amps, can't get any easier than that. Also power wire should be limited to 4 runs of 1/0 PER AMP(2 power and 2 ground).
Street max is sorta in the same situation, its a good place for people with less power to play and I like to see it remain the same.
Super street is at the point when having more than 2 subwoofers its a whole other level of competition so having a 1-2 and a 3+ class is fine. Rules should remain the same for these classes with some of the wording on custom panels revised to be more black and white. To many door panels I see are getting on the verge of out right extreme.
Extreme is sorta the same situation as SS where once you get past one speaker its a point when more than one is marginally louder. Mainly the one woofer class is a good proving ground for manufactures to torture test their products and this testing that improves product trickles down to the other classes as a result of this. Since I judged the extreme vehicles at Indy finals I would suggest a proper and official jig be designed that all certified judges and competitors can build/use to judge the passengers cabin. Sam Horn had a nice idea at finals with his and with a few tweeks it could be perfect.
The consumer market is feeling the squeeze and we need to lower the the potential investment each competitor will see when considering dB Drag for their choice of competition.
I have other recomendations but this is all for now.
i agread with Don ex1 and 2+ will be fair . And super street 1-2 and 3+ but on the smal classes i relly don't know what to said! i think is some thins in th extreme class ,that i will change, like the rule about removeble pcs, just let us build solid,if can be clear that noting pass the b-pillar why keep make us rebuild the car after get judge, is time to make or lifes easy. this pass finals i have 7hours in work to get my volvo back runing.
-------------------- ''The first brazilian to compete in SPL outside brazilian borders.''
172.3 with ONE SUB on 2002 DB Drag World Finals 169 on Extreme 2 2003 DB Drag World Finals ...2006 world recorde extreme 1 -177,8 db and deathmath champion ...179.3db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...179.7db extreme 1 sub wr holder ...180.5db extreme 1 FIRST DB DRAG 180SSS ...2007 world CUP HOLDER 179.7DBS 1 SUB WOOFER and deathmath champion ...2008 180.9db ex 2 world champion and deathmath 173db ...2009 181.7db ex3+ WR ...life beging at 180db Posts: 1210 | From: indian trail nc | Registered: Apr 2006
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-------------------- proud member of team carmania 2007 street A 156.1 2008 street max 159.9 2008 super street 3-4 168.1 2009 street max 163.2 with 2 amps 2009 super street 3-4 168.3 2009 street B 161 and world champion Posts: 233 | From: holland | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
i say cut the amps in half for ss and people will return in ss 1-2 the problem is amps cost to mush these days to win the class you would need atleast 4 big amps limit is 8 amps in the class retail on each big amp is up to $3000+ msrp each unless you have a hookup you are sol on affording to run the class then you will need atleast 2-4 good subs (need spairs) at $500 a sub then you need batterys with 8 big amps to run you will need atleast 4 per amp that would be 32+ batterys at retail of $400 plus each without any company surrport people cant afford it anymore because it would cost around $40,000 plus truck and trailer to be ontop in ss 1-2 i think the cost got out of hand reason why people leave every year. i have a question in 2000-2001 season what did big amps cost retail maybe $799 each 1000w amp and most people got them free thru sponsorships subs were also cheaper people would run 16 $200 subs and 8 amps that cost was less then $10,000 then if they werent getting it free then all they needed was a truck and trailer companys would even pay gas and hotels where is that backing now without it its said to say that db drag will never return to its golden years and we have to live with it or just quit.
-------------------- TEAM420 TEAM KINETIK TEAM MAXXSONICS T3AUDIO TEAM DCAUDIO SS 1-2 3rd PLACE 2007 INDY "REGIONALS" SS 1-2 1ST PLACE INDY AND 2008 NATIONAL CHAMPION.
posted
I see a lot of discussion about Extreme but what are the extreme competitors doing for dB drag? How many people have ever seen an Extreme car except at finals? What mix of shows did the EX guys get their points at?
I did a quick look at Indy Finals 07 and here is what I came up with for all of the extreme classes.
Total shows for all extreme competitors. Competitors=9 Finals 06 points=8 Triples=14 Doubles=8 Singles=5 Points not earned in Extreme car(points chaser)=18
Total number of shows for all competitors=45 not counting Finals
Now many of the shows had more then one Extreme car at it so that takes the exposure way down for the general public.
How many extreme guys only did 2 or 3 shows this year because thats all they needed to make finals?
If everyone says there is a need for more extreme classes then maybe you guys need to hit a few more shows to show how much you support the sport that you want to support you.
When I get time i might go and do this kind of break down for SS and SM
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3921 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike Fallon: I see a lot of discussion about Extreme but what are the extreme competitors doing for dB drag? How many people have ever seen an Extreme car except at finals? What mix of shows did the EX guys get their points at?
I did a quick look at Indy Finals 07 and here is what I came up with for all of the extreme classes.
Total shows for all extreme competitors. Competitors=9 Finals 06 points=8 Triples=14 Doubles=8 Singles=5 Points not earned in Extreme car(points chaser)=18
Total number of shows for all competitors=45 not counting Finals
Now many of the shows had more then one Extreme car at it so that takes the exposure way down for the general public.
How many extreme guys only did 2 or 3 shows this year because thats all they needed to make finals?
If everyone says there is a need for more extreme classes then maybe you guys need to hit a few more shows to show how much you support the sport that you want to support you.
When I get time i might go and do this kind of break down for SS and SM
Its hard to drag our trooper to shows when there was 1 single point in our area (Alberta, Canada). The min towing distancse for us last year was 4.5 hrs for a double point, castlegar show was 16hrs towing both ways, and the kamloops show was 23hs towing both ways, and finals was 38hrs ONE way. You can see the shows we went to on our stats page. How can we compete with our extreme vechicle when theres next to nill for shows in our area. Plus with the gas prices the way they were last season, we could not afford to tow all over the place. Always 2 sides of a coin.
quote:Originally posted by Rip Rock: Its hard to drag our trooper to shows when there was 1 single point in our area (Alberta, Canada). The min towing distancse for us last year was 4.5 hrs for a double point, castlegar show was 16hrs towing both ways, and the kamloops show was 23hs towing both ways, and finals was 38hrs ONE way. You can see the shows we went to on our stats page. How can we compete with our extreme vechicle when theres next to nill for shows in our area. Plus with the gas prices the way they were last season, we could not afford to tow all over the place. Always 2 sides of a coin.
You could always host some shows or get some shops to host shows to take it to.
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3921 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Rip Rock: Its hard to drag our trooper to shows when there was 1 single point in our area (Alberta, Canada). The min towing distancse for us last year was 4.5 hrs for a double point, castlegar show was 16hrs towing both ways, and the kamloops show was 23hs towing both ways, and finals was 38hrs ONE way. You can see the shows we went to on our stats page. How can we compete with our extreme vechicle when theres next to nill for shows in our area. Plus with the gas prices the way they were last season, we could not afford to tow all over the place. Always 2 sides of a coin.
You could always host some shows or get some shops to host shows to take it to.
All ready in the works for 2009. Thanks to A-team audio, hopefully we can get some more shows in this area.
posted
You want to make some changes....? Make a small one. Leave the classes the way it was in 08. Just add the conductor rule and cut the amps in 1/2.
-------------------- Cactus Sounds CS Forum Life Begins After 5 World Championships. WR Holder SM 165.8db 5 x World Champ 4 x Euro Champ 4 X Swiss Champ 03 Loudest Smart In The World Posts: 7717 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
how about you must compete in atleast 5 shows in the season to be invited to finals. For extream guys have them have to take there ex. vehicle to a 1 point show and a 3 point show. and anything else to make the other 5 shows. And you must still have the 75 points.
-------------------- TEAM PRODIGY
TEAM CROSSFIRE
TEAM KINETIK
2009 Bass Race World Champion 140.0db - 149.9db Class 2009 SBN Bass Race 140.0db - 149.9db 3rd place 2009 SBN IASCA NAC Bass Boxing 3rd Place Light Weight class 2008 SBN Bass Race 130.0db -139.9db Champion 2007 Indy Bass Race Champion 130.0db - 139.9db Class 2007 SBN IASCA Bass Boxing Fly Weight Class Champion 2007 SBN Bass Race Champion 130.0db - 139.9db class 2003 Sreet A World Finals very last place
CROSSFIRE, KINETIK Posts: 1217 | From: Canonsburg, Pa | Registered: Dec 2002
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