posted
As most of you know by now I have a special attraction to Extreme vehicles. In the beginning, most of the dB Drag Racing vehicles were "Extreme". I would love to see large numbers of Extreme vehicles in the lanes again.
Here is the challenge...
1. For several years now, participation in the Extreme Division has been shrinking. As fuel prices have risen and sponsorships have diminished, it has become increasingly hard to participate with one of these vehicles. To address this, we lowered the points requirement to 50 several years ago. This allowed an Extreme competitor who won first at the World Finals to only win first at one more 3X in order to qualify for the Finals. Even so, participation in this division continues to shrink.
2. The dBDRA requires that ALL classes be offered at multipoint events. In addition, prizes must be provided for EACH class. This is not a problem when the brackets are full. Unfortunately, many Extreme classes are very sparsely populated at Multipoint events.
3. The excitement of a "head-to-head" contest is lost when only a single contestant enters a given class.
When one studies the numbers, it is impossible to justify the existence of 4 Extreme classes with so few competitors.
However, I would be willing to restore the Extreme Division to ALL 4 classes if we could fully populate each Extreme bracket at the World Finals. For example, we would need 32 Extreme competitors (8 per class) in North America and 32 Extreme competitors in Europe (8 per class) to achieve this.
What say you?
If we can't attain this level of participation (and meet the 75 points requirement), I see no alternative but to reduce the number of classes offered. If a class reduction is in order, how would you suggest it be done.
Thanks in advance!
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
make it back to equipment difference and not to encosure build EX 1-2 EX 3+ i think this will be more liked than the BP or wall classes
-------------------- Team Cactus Sounds 2004: 2nd place european finals street B 2005: european champion street C 2006: european champion street A 2007: european champion street C 2007: WORLD CHAMPION street C 2008: street C Posts: 1147 | From: belgium | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would like to see Extreme 1 amp and then Extreme 2 amps +
-------------------- Ed Lester, Team T3 Audio Team Maxxsonics Team Kinetik Team Hooker Audio Team Second Skin Team RazorLite 3 time dB drag World Finalist. 2003, 2005, 2007 electronic engineer acoustic engineer physics major humble guy
3 12" T3 Audio TSS 1 HiFonics XXV Maxximus 3 Kinetik HC 2400s
Posts: 1338 | From: near Philly Pa | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by augustijnen Peter: make it back to equipment difference and not to encosure build EX 1-2 EX 3+ i think this will be more liked than the BP or wall classes
this idea is the best one i heard so far if theres 19 people in all of extreme in the usa in 07 and you have 20 in 08 that would just about fill all the brackets
-------------------- TEAM420 TEAM KINETIK T3AUDIO BATCAP SS 1-2 3rd PLACE 2007 INDY "REGIONALS" 163.9db
quote:Originally posted by augustijnen Peter: make it back to equipment difference and not to encosure build EX 1-2 EX 3+ i think this will be more liked than the BP or wall classes
This has been discussed... But, to build a compettive Extreme car today is VERY hard for even a experienced hard core dB Drag Racing competitor.
The reason why we want to make Extreme and Extreme Unlimited is that Extreme (Wall) is easier to build than a Extreme Unlimited veichle with ALOT of "hightec" solutions and fabrications that just a few competitors understand and can do...
My understanding is that noone with a "regular, old school" Extreme veichle has no change to compete against a Extreme car with a "Mikko Virta design"
For years I have seen wall builded Extreme cars that plays over 10+ dB lower than a "Mikko Virta designed" Extreme car..
-------------------- Tor Aamodt
*Head Judge at World finals 2004, 2006 and 2007 *Judge at World finals 2002 - 2003 *Norwegian dB Drag Racing Association. (NdBDRA) *Certified multi point judge.
quote:Originally posted by augustijnen Peter: make it back to equipment difference and not to encosure build EX 1-2 EX 3+ i think this will be more liked than the BP or wall classes
This has been discussed...
and whats the problem with it being this way
-------------------- TEAM420 TEAM KINETIK T3AUDIO BATCAP SS 1-2 3rd PLACE 2007 INDY "REGIONALS" 163.9db
quote:Originally posted by augustijnen Peter: make it back to equipment difference and not to encosure build EX 1-2 EX 3+ i think this will be more liked than the BP or wall classes
This has been discussed...
and whats the problem with it being this way
Go up again... I was to quick pushing "add reply"
-------------------- Tor Aamodt
*Head Judge at World finals 2004, 2006 and 2007 *Judge at World finals 2002 - 2003 *Norwegian dB Drag Racing Association. (NdBDRA) *Certified multi point judge.
Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid. -- Mark Twain "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" Posts: 462 | From: NORTHEAST | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wayne: I just looked WF results and that was opening my eyes. Here is list:
Indy * 3 cars in Ext1 * 3 cars in Ext2 * 3 cars in Ext4 * 3 cars in Ext5+
San mateo * 1 car in Ext2 * 1 car in Ext4
Tampa * None
For comparision here is Euro competitors:
France * 3 cars in Ext1 * 6 cars in Ext2 * 5 cars in Ext4 * 3 cars in Ext5+
Greeze * 1 cars in Ext1 * 1 cars in Ext4
Norway * None
By looking those lists it is easy to say that "combining all"(=taking off e1,e2 and e4) is only solution for Extreme classes but for my eyes it isn't. Now you ask why i don't see that combining classes will cause full bracket in E1+ class. Answer is :Being competitive you must have certain amount of power.
So if you try to beat E2 car with E1 car with same amplifiers you had theoretical 3 db less power. In real world that has been proven many times that it will cause about 1.6-2.0 db difference( Look and compare my and saaristo bro's stats from years 2004->2007). Power difference will be bigger if you compare E1 and E4 cars ans so on. This is quite same situation than trying combine Street A to Street C. Everyone understand that average Street A car needs to upgrade his setup to getting more power. Same thing than trying to combine SS1-2 to SS3-4 or even worse SS5+
If combining(=taking off e1,e2,e4)is not a answer then what can be ?
I don't have right answer for that but i think that we should trying to find out why we don't have full bracket anymore and if´we don't have full bracket do we even need them to be full. Only one can win so is it big deal that E1 has only 4 car in finals ? If you are saying that scores are too high now and that's why most of ext guys has been leaved that might be true, but still none of these proposed changes can't change a fact that anyway someone will be MUCH MUCH louder than another. WHY ? Reason is simple: In past 8 years ext cars has been developing to use stronger and stronger resonance. This means higher score with less power. Also it means narrow band with and that's means hard to get work it properly. To getting this kind of strong resonance i developed WLV. I don't tell you how i was do it but i can tell that i can do it again. Even if woofers has to be in b-pillar line. After i helped Steve cook with his setup lots of US car was start doing same. Now all most every cars is putting this setup because it guaranties strong resonance(=with narrow band with). So once again limiting installation don't help us to get more competitors what all can be in same line(score difference less than 3db) because of some competitors knows how to get stronger resonance than another(with narrow band with).
So strong resonance and lots of power is making ext cars so loud. Is it bad thing ? Maybe, because more current competitors are quiting than new are coming in. But anyway Ext class is "Formula 1" of dbdrag so it should be loudest than possible. Ext classes are people who want make crazy scores with crazy installations but still they can use decent setup for doing it(1woofer,4 amps some 16V batteries ).
Still i am more worried about that how much dbdrag is getting new people in ( General level). Those changes what is proposed to Street is so far away from that what it should be. If we start this season with those changes we don't see any gain for street classes. I could write lots of about this issue but this topic is wrong place for it. But we should try to harder to get new people IN. All of us has been newbie in history but nowadays it's really hard to start your career if you need huge LOAN for do it. I still remember my first national finals(-99). I was spending my school loan for buying amplifier for finals. Nowadays even 2 that kind of loan is not enough for winning even street A. So what this mean ? It means that nowadays guys like me(huge passion but no money) can't start their careers because it is so expensive and this means that in future we don't see these guys in SS or EXt classes. You got my point ?
I really doubt that you can understand all my thoughts but hopefully you won't flip hole extreme scene up side down. Anyway big changes should be done with one year "buffer". So in this case it means for season 2009.
ps. This was absolutely longest reply what i had ever wrote.
-------------------- -Life begins after 175 db- 4.1 dB's over the goal Posts: 786 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid. -- Mark Twain "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" Posts: 462 | From: NORTHEAST | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- www.competitionsoundz.com 2007 3rd loudest in Japan SS (we came as the lamb.) 2008 (Now, we're coming as the lion and we be hungry!)
Team R&R TEAM MAXXSONICS (Feel the Power!) Team Cactus Sounds Japan Team Powermaster Team Kinetik Hooker Audio LFG Fareast. He may not come when you want but, he's always right on time! Posts: 1244 | From: Fukushima, Japan | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mabye insted of looking at the amount of subs, mabye look at the amount of amps. ie 1-2amps,3-4amps,5+amps. amps are more money than subs in gernal. if you limit the power,you limit the score. that way it wouldn't really matter what size of subs and or how many.
by limiting amps, you don't need as many batts, wire ect. thus limiting cost.
mabye a combo of amps and subs. for classes.
mabye limit amps to 2 amps per sub?
mabye increace the 3 freq average to 4 freq average for the score.
just some ideas for people to think about, and branch off of.
-------------------- Mike and Mark Rip_Rock@shaw.ca
I think that you shall make a e-mail with your ideas to have more people into dB Drag Racing and e-mail all judges on judges@dbdragracing.no
-------------------- Tor Aamodt
*Head Judge at World finals 2004, 2006 and 2007 *Judge at World finals 2002 - 2003 *Norwegian dB Drag Racing Association. (NdBDRA) *Certified multi point judge.
Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid. -- Mark Twain "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" Posts: 462 | From: NORTHEAST | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Empire Audio-Mike: What about having one class use current cabin rules ie: 30" rod and the other use the old rules of 2 people?
This would allow some real interesting designs and allow people the ability to have cars that don't all look the same.
I agree we need to have the return of Extreme vehicles that people can actually sit inside on seats.
Imagine sitting in a vehicle that seems to be a SS vehicle on the surface but underneath its a steel/concrete reinforced 175+ db machine.
If you go back and look at the population decline in the extreme class you will see as these stock looking extreme vehicles disappeared to the enclosure on wheels we have today the population of the class started to fall as more people found it harder to see the point.
I can elaborate more but most of you who have been in the industry for as long as me or longer will see I am right.
For most competitors its not been about the spl number but the spl gain and being the loudest in a given class on a given mic. And when we have a mic as accurate as we do now, the gains we make are alot more plenty and rewarding.
So I think the extreme unlimited class is ok with the new changes(I thought on this along time too) but how we do the regular Extreme will decide if we can get the population up in this class of modified vehicles.
I know alot of you might dread rebuilding but if I know you guys you will be doing it anyway, so with that said heres my spin on things.
Extreme=Seat two people semi comfortably in seats(factory or Certified racing equivilant), Rest of the vehicle can be Old school, New school whatever as long as it fits into the Extreme guidelines with two people sitting comfortably inside.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig -Still waiting to see 170 @ 30hz(only 20 more db to go!) Posts: 1856 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would also like to add that back in 2000-2001 is when you notice an increased drop in extreme class and most of those that retired were people that had retail outlets or affiliation with one.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
