posted
i don't know if this issue is addressed, but i feel the need to address it now. i overheard some things that bothered me reguarding quads in the streetmax class. if you take a subwoofer that was purchased as a quad coil subwoofer, and simply jumper the tensil leads from two of the coils to the remaining two coils to create a "look alike dual voice coil" configuration, would this be legal for street and streetmax class? i was under the impression that the rules stated that the subs can only have two discrete voice coils in street and streetmax and using this method still leaves you at 4 discrete voice coils, but with two voice coils per termination point. can someone clear this up for me? just want to know if doing this is legal or not.
posted
The entire limiting of coils rule is bogus. There was never a solid justification for banning them. They were outlawed because some companies such as Kicker and JBL do not use quad connections on their woofers.
Many dual voice coil subs are in fact use a "quad" coil, you just cannot access the coil in 4 places, only two.
It's a near-retarded rule to essentially ban companies from putting 4 connections on their woofers. All it does is make exotic amplifers essential, JBL has one.
quote:Originally posted by DD Shreder: The entire limiting of coils rule is bogus. There was never a solid justification for banning them. They were outlawed because some companies such as Kicker and JBL do not use quad connections on their woofers.
Many dual voice coil subs are in fact use a "quad" coil, you just cannot access the coil in 4 places, only two.
It's a near-retarded rule to essentially ban companies from putting 4 connections on their woofers. All it does is make exotic amplifers essential, JBL has one.
With the conductor rule does it really matter if its a QVC or DVC?
But its in the rules, QVCs are not allowed in Street or Street Max.
Rules are rules.
Ben
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC - Team RE - Team DD Posts: 2981 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Geo-X: i don't know if this issue is addressed, but i feel the need to address it now. i overheard some things that bothered me reguarding quads in the streetmax class. if you take a subwoofer that was purchased as a quad coil subwoofer, and simply jumper the tensil leads from two of the coils to the remaining two coils to create a "look alike dual voice coil" configuration, would this be legal for street and streetmax class? i was under the impression that the rules stated that the subs can only have two discrete voice coils in street and streetmax and using this method still leaves you at 4 discrete voice coils, but with two voice coils per termination point. can someone clear this up for me? just want to know if doing this is legal or not.
If the woofer has a quad voice coil and hte coil is wired in parrallel or series UNDER the dustcap where the coilis attached to the tinsel leads it is perfectly legal for street and street max.
Now if it was a quad woofer where they just took terminals off of the basket and connecting the tinsel leads to teh remaining to terminals i do not know how they would be ruled.
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4558 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote: If the woofer has a quad voice coil and hte coil is wired in parrallel or series UNDER the dustcap where the coilis attached to the tinsel leads it is perfectly legal for street and street max.
is it? can you prove that with a link to documentation? i know what your saying terry, and i must say that even if it wasn't legal, it would be hard to prove if the work was done under the dustcap or spider. but my question is focused on those who purchased their subs as quads, and then instead of opting for recones this year, just felt that it was ok to simply jumper their tinsel leads over to create a "kinda like a dvc" sub. even if you unbolt the unused terminals, it would still be obvious if you looked at it. is there a line between what goes on under the dustcap and spiders, and what goes on over the spiders? there are people who prolly won't want to touch this topic with a 10ft pole. but they ought to be thanking me because this issue needs to be addressed and resolved while there's still time to fix it (if need be) before it comes out at finals where it's too late.
-------------------- Team Livewire Posts: 2199 | From: columbus, ohio | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The rules are based on discrete voice coils... And the definition of the above is basically coils that are electrically isolated from each other, Now if you were to do the scenerio as was said, take the 3rd and 4th v.c. connections and "couple" them to the remaining connections, bam you'd still have 4 voice coils, BUT only the two pairs would be electrically isolated??
Confused yet? I know I am...
-------------------- Dave Yearick Jr. -- '03 Ford Expedition FX4 Kicker SS 5.25 Comp's Front Kicker SSMB8 Midbass Front Kicker RS 5.25 Comp's Rear Kicker ZX650.4 & HK398 Hifonics Goliath Sub Amp 2 Fi BTL 18"s My Explorer Posts: 601 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
In terms of isolation or being discrete, there is no difference between jumping quad wires on the top of the paper cone or below it.
It makes it so only people that want to take their dustcap off be able to use (series or parralled) quads in Street. If you want to do the SAME thing, but not take apart you woofer, someone's gonna DQ you! That's what these rulings have essentaily created.
quote:Originally posted by DD Shreder: It makes it so only people that want to take their dustcap off be able to use (series or parralled) quads in Street. If you want to do the SAME thing, but not take apart you woofer, someone's gonna DQ you! That's what these rulings have essentaily created.
This is correct.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8492 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Geo-X: so dbsteve, is that the final ruling?
that is what i have been told
if it is under the dustcap and htere are only two terminals it is a dvc woofer
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4558 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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this year the gripe is about 2 or more amplifier boards under 1 case
What's next for next year....2 vans cut in half and put together to make one extra long van....or....4 batteries in 1 case, but with only 2 posts as to appear as one battery????
First companies were complainingg becuase they didn't make a quad coil woofer, but those same companies seem to be the ones making the huge massive amps...which I've read/heard that they are complaining about that now and they don't want to make 4000 watt amps anymore because the general public doesn't but enough of them. It's the same stuff over and over. I recently saw in a post that Wayne had basically said that people need to realize that dB Drag is where the big boys play, so get over it. Well, the big boys want to push as much power to one woofer as possible, but the companies that support this organization either don't want to make a quad coil woofer and the ones that do make them, don't want to make a 4000 watt amp.
If this organizations is truly where the big boys play, then the ban on quads and multiple board amps needs to go away. The whole basis on quads and multiple board amps were because the cost was so much that the general competitor could not or would not purchase it and it had to be a fair playing field for everyone. Well it seems that the general competitor isn't the focus of dB Drag anyway?????
posted
Ok look at it like this say i have a standard 18" sub with two terminals on it(+ and - on each terminal) but the coil that was used in the build process is a quad voice coil wired in series or parrallel under the dust cap. what is it???
A dvc sub is the answer
it DOES NOT matter what the manufacturer has done under the dustcap to make it a DVC it IS a DVC sub period.
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4558 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:it DOES NOT matter what the manufacturer has done under the dustcap to make it a DVC it IS a DVC sub period
it also could be a 8vc woofer with 2 conductors. still it is used as a dvc. my opinion!
-------------------- Street C Team JoTo 2004:Winner Austrian Finals 155.1 Loudest non-Panda, non-CRX street car of the world! 2005: 156,9 Street C 2006: 156,5 Street B 2nd loudest score in the world 2nd Place Euopean Finals Posts: 145 | From: Austria | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
terry, you worked for a high end woofer manufacturer. when was the last time you seen a high end sub with it's tinsel leads leading up under the dustcap. most just run up the former from under the spider and then along the top half of the spider to the terminals. so do these subs have to be wired under the spider to be considered true dvc subs?
-------------------- Team Livewire Posts: 2199 | From: columbus, ohio | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Geo-X: terry, you worked for a high end woofer manufacturer. when was the last time you seen a high end sub with it's tinsel leads leading up under the dustcap. most just run up the former from under the spider and then along the top half of the spider to the terminals. so do these subs have to be wired under the spider to be considered true dvc subs?
All the Subs i have seen with the tinsel leads in the spider would have to be redone with spiders that have two sets of tinsel leads instead of four, to be considered dvcs in my opinion.
Now if you are saying that subs with four sets(+ and -)in the spider going out to the terminals are having two terminals removed and the tinsel leads that were at those terminals are being wired to the two remaining terminals. Im not sure waht to think about that. Except it may be similar to the under the dustcap thing except more visible.
Essentially there is no difference and with the conductor rule i have kinda of felt there is really no need for a ban on quads. The conducter rule limits how many amps can be run on what ever subs are in the systems which is the original intent of the no quad coil rule or my interpretation of the rule anyway.
So if a speaker has two terminals it is a DVC if it has four it is a quad.
-------------------- Team KICKER Team Kinetik 2009 uh oh 2008 bassrace? 2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs 2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1) 2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!! 2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?! 2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th) 2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th) 2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year. Posts: 4558 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001
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